Could someone give thoughts on chances for my twins a UMN?
CSE
Female
ACT 30 (27M, 28Sc, 34 R, 33 E)
4.0UW, 5.4 W
Top 5% of Class (600+ in class)
All Honors Classes Throughout HS
AP Bio, AP Lang (4 AP test)
AP Senior Year - BC Calc, Psychology, Literature
4 years Tennis (2 Varsity)
NHS
I year Softball
1 year Basketball
4 years Interact (400 hours Community Service)
Chair for volunteers for Challengers Baseball Fundraiser (Baseball for mentally/physically impaired children)
CLA
Male
ACT 32
4.0UW, 5.4W
Top 5% of Class
All Honors Classes through HS
AP Bio, AP Lang (4 AP test)
AP Senior Year - BC Calc, Chemistry, Literature
4 years Wrestling (2 Varsity) - Will be team Captain Senior year
Interact 2 years (159 Hours Community Service)
Sponsorship Chair for Challenger Baseball Fundraiser
@CyclonesGrad here are the stats by college: http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/academics/profile.html
Also, here are the stats for CSE and CLA specifically:
http://cse.umn.edu/r/cse-by-the-numbers/
http://cla.umn.edu/about/about-college-liberal-arts
Others can weigh in on whether your daughter’s math and science ACT scores are high enough. CSE is the most competitive program and the admission rate is well below the overall 44% average. However, being a female should also help her.
Your son should have no problem being accepted to CLA based on his stats. Probably honors college as well.
Mamelot - Thanks. That is what I thought. She is taking the ACT again in September to try and improve the math and science score. Big issue on first test was that many of the concepts (algebra and geometry) were taken a while back and she did not review it thoroughly.
I offered my insight on the Science part but she is independent and wants to do it herself. I guess my engineering background doesn’t matter much
LOL - BTDT. That spirit will serve her well in the future, by the way. She may do much better the second time around especially if she knows where to focus her prep. My D3 took the ACT in April and also scored a 30 with similar subscores to your D. She retook in June and scored a 34. Sometimes it’s just a matter of zeroing in on what you know you were missing.
I am thinking maybe a 32 on the second round. Then should be a good chance for CSE.
Son seems reluctant to take it again because he is happy with 32 but considering because he doesn’t want sister to have a better score. He knows she will improve the math and science.
I agree - tell your D to take ACT again and do the real practice tests leading in (one key is getting speed up and quick at pulling out what she needs for the reading science sections). Get that real ACT book w/ the old tests in them.
I think she will need a higher ACT score to be competitive b/c UMN is so stat-driven for admissions, scholarships and honors admittance. She has the grades for it and I’m sure she has the brains for it. I think most kids can raise their ACT score just practicing a bit. My S has a couple friends who scored similar to your D and practiced and raised their scores to 34s and 35s (they were more in the 28-30 range 1st round). We are local so I know a lot of kids who applied to UMN and it seems like test scores can make a big difference in admittance, honors and scholarships. Based on your twins’ course load and grades, I have no doubt they could raise their scores w/ a little practice (though S is good for CLA).
When my son went to CSE orientation, they joked that the typical CSE honors transcript was A math, A phyiscs, A- English. CSE stats seem to be going up a little every year.
Also your daughter can put CLA as 2nd choice when she applies since she could take some of the same early classes/gen eds for CSE major at CLA and try to xfer in. I’m not sure what the policy is for engineering majors - if that’s what her plan is. Hopefully someone else can speak to that here.
We bought the books last November but they went unloved!
I agree about practice. If only I could get both of them to do it. Daughter took ACT as Soph and get 27. Took as Junior and get 30. No studying either time. Maybe she will crack the book this time!
Son took the test as Junior for first time and stated it was his practice. Did not study and got 32.
We told them that since we are paying for the test they need to study this go round. Late July with test in mid-September and still have not studied yet.
Any sage advice on how to motivate would be greatly appreciated!! :-S
@CyclonesGrad perhaps you could share the facts with your D and then let her decide CSE or CLA. She’s in a good place for admission to CLA so she can join her brother there :0 The reality is that the university will place her in the college they think is best for her even if she doesn’t specify it as a 2nd choice on the application. And M/S scores south of 30 or 31 will make CSE a “reach” for the majority of applicants.
Or, if she is willing to experience a bit of “pain” in August and early September, she might be able to get those M/S scores up to a point where, based on the stats, she’s a comfortable “Admit” to CSE. With an early application, she might have this college thing wrapped up by November. Not a bad position to be in as a Senior. There is a high option value here: no downside (it’s early in the school year so won’t compromise her study time much, ESPECIALLY if she gets on the ball now), and plenty of upside.
Sounds like you are cursed with smart kids LOL. They will land on their feet regardless of whether they figure all this out now or later. Experience can be a good (and hard!) teacher - and sometimes the best teacher. She’ll be happier if she takes responsibility for her decisions, regardless of the outcomes.
One more thing: you can let them know that they will owe you a refund on the books if they are substantially unused (and you are the final arbiter on what “substantial” means). Sometimes money talks the loudest.
Good point about the refund. I will take your advice and let them sink or swim on their own. No more prodding from me! Thanks for the advice. 
@Mamelot - had a discussion with my daughter last night about needing to raise her math and science scores if she want to go into engineering anywhere. She is fully aware and is taking it seriously.
BTW, I am very impressed with UMN ranking in engineering. Even better than my Alma Mater 
@CyclonesGrad don’t we all want our kids to have better opportunities than we did! I totally agree about UMN - it’s one of the top 20 engineering schools in the country (not including the specialty schools like Harvey Mudd or Rose-Hulman) and right outside the top 10 public engineering schools. Very competitive. The better those M/S scores, the better the options and opportunities and the higher the scholarship $$$'s. 
@Mamelot Right on about better opportunities. That is why I am coaching her on applying to Iowa State instead of Iowa for engineering. My wife is more influential than me, i.e. softer touch. Maybe she will make headway.
I would rank UMN first and then ISU. D also wants to apply to UC - SD (Jacobs School) but will need BIG bucks in merit to go there. Probably will apply to U of Alabama because will get full tuition merit, however I am not so interested because no rep and I think could be difficult to land good position.
There’s also Purdue (top 10), Ohio State (ranked near SD, I think) and Mizzou (ranked near Bama) - those three seem to come up a lot. I thought Mizzou was generous with scholarship money but not sure whether that’s for engineering. Lots of choices. Good luck to her - I’ll bet she’ll do great!
@Mamelot - No interest in Purdue. Rather UMN over OSU. I agree on lots (too many?) choices. Just happy one of my four children want to go into engineering and will come out with a good career path. Twin brother wants pre-med. Oldest Son - Theatre, Oldest Daughter - Child Psychology (= more school).
@CyclonesGrad Alabama offers an addition $2.5K for engineering above tuition (if D gets her ACT up to 32)… but from what I’ve seen, they don’t really have a Biomedical Engineering program. A good choice for mech or chem eng, but I’d question even applying if Biomed Eng is the goal.
UCSD is an outstanding school for BioMedEng, but California is very parsimonious with merit aid. Their budgets need fullpay OOS and international students. Have you visited campus? My S found their “Six College” concept to be odd and off-putting, but we met plenty of students who loved it there.
Good luck!
@khidhala - Actually at Alabama you get full ride and $2.5K if you are over a 30 ACT. See engineering scholarships. My daughter is considering because she really does not want to graduate with full Stafford loans of about $27K.
I have told all of my children that we can only afford $15K/year and anything over that is their responsibility.
My feeling is Alabama is trying to improve their reputation by getting really high level students in. The product a university puts out is a function of the material that you start with. Sounds crass but I believe it is true.
Yes. She does want to do BioMed. That is why she is visiting UMTC. She will not even consider my Alma Mater at this point even though it would only be $19K/year (Tuition/Fees + Room/Board) with merit and legacy.
@cyclonesGrad - As far as studying: One motivator that worked w/ a friend’s son (who we were trying to encourage to study for ACT) was to have him do a test or section of test (that was dragging his score down), see his score, then spend a few hrs studying prob areas, take different section and he saw improvement in score. After that he studied on his own. He really only spent a few hrs for a few days/wk and improved his score significantly.
Focusing on the problem areas in a section helps to make it seem less arduous/overwhelming and they don’t have to wait too long to see results of higher scores, which encourages them to do a little more and see if they can get it up even higher. With scores like your kids have, it is probably just 1 or 2 areas that are making their scores lower than they can be - so a few hours could make a big difference. My son claimed that it was partly the “luck” of getting a less boring section to read for science. Apparently reading about sea grass is brain numbing.
I agree w/ Mamelot that telling them that their scores will affect their admittance and choices for college/ It can also affect admittance to honors program (if they care about that) and merit scholarships. They’ve put in many hours over their HS years in their rigorous coursework and earned great grades. They have the hard part done. The test part is much easier to do - a few hours! And the time is now! A few hours now can reap great rewards - especially for schools like UMN that are so stats-driven.
Also visiting UMN may help to encourage them. When you visit, you will have a session w/ a recruiter from the specific college of interest to your student. They have you fill in a short info sheet w HS rank, scores, and areas of interest for major. When meeting the recruiter (ours was a grad student who went to UMN as undergrad), you and your S/D will have a chance to ask questions. You could ask about what sort of score one needs to be competitive for admittance/honors/scholarships. Sometimes hearing it from someone besides a parent really helps.
My S is starting UMN this fall, but he also looked at ASU/Barrett (he really liked it). He thought UMN was a better fit for his interests (though he liked the feel of ASU/Barrett campus better). I think they give good scholarships and Barrett attracts some really good students and is generous w/ merit aid. You can’t beat the weather there!
Glad you corrected my error- my DS can’t be bribed into considering engineering. So while we’re looking hard at Alabama, I’m not up to snuff on the engineering money. Just got back from the campus, and might well have lost my boy to its charms.
And I don’t think it’s crass, only sensible. Any recipe benefits from better ingredients, no matter the cook. But Alabama really goes further than just chasing the numbers- they seek to provide a collaborative and collegial environment for those students, while maintaining their purpose of reaching out to the whole state.
Maybe I’ve drank the kool-aid, but I have constantly been impressed with the outreach and effort of all the staff. I love my alma mater (and employer) Minnesota, but I often found myself wishing they showed the same level of enthusiasm and support Alabama has. This goes beyond just the scholarship, which is why we even looked at Alabama. It’s all the other stuff that impressed me, and makes me comfortable should DS chose it over Minnesota.
But for BioMefEng…Minnesota can’t be beat for cost, opportunity and academics.
@MomMe32 I will look into ASU. Sound interesting.
@khidhala We are looking at Alabama but my wife has an issue about the distance from Chicago. D definitely wants BioMedEng and all I have heard is about how many companies in that industry are in the TC. Even the kids from University of Iowa interview there. That is a major draw. D is also going into BioMed to keep her options open about potentially going into Med school after her Bachelors. I believe UMN has a very good Med school.
@CyclonesGrad are you residents of IL or IA? You mentioned Chicago but based on earlier comments I was thinking IA . . . Anyway you probably know that UIUC is ranked top 20 for biomedical engineering. EXCELLENT school (though Urbana-Champaign ain’t the Twin Cities . . . ).
You are absolutely correct UMN has an excellent med school. Ranked very high especially in primary care.