<p>So I'm starting my freshman year at Madison this month, and I'm already looking into going the pre-med route. I'm primarily interested in majors such as biology, biochemistry, and molecular biology. For this reason, I decided to take Chem 109 (Advanced General Chemistry) this semester and Chem 327 (Fundamentals of Analytics Science) next semester.</p>
<p>I just wanted to make one thing sure though; will this count as "one year of general chemistry" that most med schools require? It is technically the entire general chemistry syllabus, plus analytic chemistry, right? Also, both have labs.</p>
<p>According to the pre-med advisory website, this sequence is suitable for a pre-med student, but I thought I'd just confirm with any other pre-med or med students, or people familiar with Chem 109 and Chem 327. Thanks!</p>
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<p>On a side-note, I'd just like to ask: how hard is Chem 109 really? I took 4 years of high school chemistry, along with 4 years of general math and 3 years of advanced math simultaneously. My adviser was vehement about me taking this course, and I agreed to try my best at it, but I'm still approaching it with a bit of apprehension. For anyone who has taken this course, is it worth it in the long-run, especially if I'm majoring in something like molecular biology? Or if I'm going into med school later on? Exactly how hard it is, especially as compared to Chem 103+104? Thanks again!</p>
<p>Chemistry major at UW eons ago and then MD elsewhere. You will meet the premed reqs with these courses. You need general and analytical chemistry- covered by courses recommended to you. Have kept up via my Badger Chemist and perusing the UW website- diferent insights than current students. Go with your advisor’s advice. </p>
<p>UW has 3 sequences for general chemistry relevant to you. Chem 115-116 is honors, mainly for majors and likely still the terrific course I took (updated, of course)- it covers the 2 general and the analytical course. But since you are aiming for the biological sciences it is not the best course for you. The current 109 will give you in depth study, covering the 2 general courses’ content since a good HS background is presumed. Eons ago there was 109-110 which could be taken for honors and paralleled 115-116- probably the reason they dropped 110 and students take the analytical course next. Having taken “4 years” of HS chemistry (my HS had an integrated science program and I was given credit for 1 1/2 years of chemistry, long before AP courses were available) you should be well prepared for 109. Chemistry 103-104 is the course most students taking chemistry will take- plenty of competition for grades from other premed students. Chem 109 will have far fewer students (although lab/discussion sections will be of similar size) and more who enjoy science. Do not let the fact that many preengineering students take 109 deter you. Chemistry 103 has been reported to be difficult by some on CC so taking it will not mean breezing through. You save one chemistry course by taking 109 and 327 instead of 103-104-327. The labs may be more fun- I still remember the “9 solution problem” from 115- a lesser course only had 4 unknowns to play with chemical reactions to identify each. A more complex puzzle to solve. Part of a good education is learning how to think and problem solve- different levels expected in each sequence. BTW- aside from having a good grad chemistry dept UW is known for the work some professors do in Chemical Education at the precollege level- this has an influence on departmental teaching (individuals may vary). Do not use the percentage getting different grades determine which course you take- presume you can be that A student in areas you have ability in.</p>
<p>Having a premed intention you should be planning on taking the most rigorous courses you can- both for the greater knowledge base and the difficulty of the courses. This will keep you prepared for the work load of medical school and look best on your application. You may as well work hard and get (mostly) A’s in the best courses you can. The two instate medical schools will recognize the courses taken by their applicants. I suspect you may also be taking the Biocore sequence as well once you have taken the prerequisite Organic chemistry. Enjoy your undergrad experience. Work hard but also find time for courses totally unrelated to being premed or your major. Once you graduate you will unlikely find the time for them. Consider art history, music- symphony and literature as well as any other social science and humanities courses just for your own knowledge/enjoyment. Later on indulge in something P/F if you don’t want your gpa dragged down.</p>
<p>wis75 - Would you recommend applying for the 115-116 sequence for a dedicated student with pre-pharmacy intention who enjoys the subject? (AP Chem 4, ACT 31, Current H.S. Class Rank 4th)</p>
<p>Good luck at UW this year. Personally, I took 103/104 a couple years ago, and I really enjoyed the sequence. You can’t really go wrong with chem at UW–none of the courses are dumbed down; you’ll learn plenty. The intro courses often have test averages hovering around 50-60%, because the material is deep regardless of students’ ability. Thus, there’s an opportunity to learn a great deal in 103/104. (It’s also pretty nice going into the final about 20% above the A cutoff). </p>
<p>103/104 was extremely satisfactory in preparing me for 343/345 (o-chem), which you’ll need as a premed. I’m sure 109/327 will be excellent, too.</p>
<p>Madison85- I don’t know the student or current course to be able to be definite. I remember when son was invited to take the honors calculus, chemistry and physics sequences (he chose math and physics, sigh, not the chemistry lover I am) that 115 is now by a spring invitation only- although there are ways around restrictions. From reading about 115-116 far fewer students take it now and it is definitely geared for majors. I did well in it- A’s- and remember those exams- where one person would get 80+% and the next few of us in the high 60% scores, humbling to think of how much you didn’t know. Glad to hear 103-104 also stretches people. I also remember how a student near my lab bench was approached by the professor and he was switched to a less difficult course after the first major exam (that fantastic professor is now emeritus- he seemed middle aged to 18 year olds but was relatively new to the faculty back then). Introductory chemistry at UW is NOT a memorization course- it is a thinking and problem solving one, those most able to think outside the box of taught material do best.</p>
<p>From reading the online info it seems as though engineers’ and others’ needs may be better addressed by other chemistry courses. The honors calculus sequence is highly theoretical (proof based) and besides including 4 courses’ worth of material in 3 it is not for every major, the same logic may follow for chemistry. When in doubt- ask the source, ie one’s advisor or the chemistry honors advisor, via email, of course. My experience has been that professors answer their emails.</p>
<p>Finally looked at your link- oops, could have earlier, sorry. The above helps others. Specific for your case comments follow. Many taking 115 will have had a 5 on the AP exam. An interest in Pharmacy may mean a more practical than theoretical interest in chemistry. However, many HS students are unaware of many career possibilities and the student may end up becoming a Chemistry major and/or going on to study Pharmacology in grad school. Up to the individual. May be more than s/he wants. Can still do well as a Chemistry major if s/he changes plans. Either 109 or 115 sound like they are geared for those who love chemistry. I would understand and be happy with the student’s personal choice as a parent. The worst thing to do is to encourage someone to take a course they don’t really want to. Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Justtotalk- glad to hear the Chemistry Dept remains strong in teaching the intro courses, any of which are preparation for all courses that follow.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reassuring replies everyone =) The only thing I was worried about anyway was that some med schools wouldn’t recognize a one-semester gen chem course as an entire “year” of general chemistry, even with the analytic one. I’m sure if I explained they’d understand though. Thanks again! =)</p>
<p>I have it from a very definitive source that you should be fine in 109. It isn’t that much harder than the other 2, it is just that in 109 they skip some stuff that they assume you already know. Also, while the department doesn’t really like for students to do it, if you find that 109 is too hard, you can switch down to 103. However, if your SOAR advisor is recommending 109, that is probably the best place for you.</p>
<p>Take the course that most interests you. You will work as hard in either course probably but 115-116 gives you the same as 109-327 so you get your analytical in the same amount of time but with a smaller group of people- and fine for medical school admissions. For me it was taking Biocore instead of other Biology courses while a Chemistry major- take the course you want to regardless of your major. Remember you will be among those who like chemistry a lot- if you are as enthusastic you will fit right in.</p>
<p>Of course they don’t want many people scheduling 109 then dropping it and adding 103- think of the sections needed for each, and your fellow students who could have gotten your time slot for lab and discussion but had to rearrange their class load unnecessarily. But do think about switching if you find yourself floundering after the first major exam.</p>
<p>School grades don’t always mean the same grade on a national test, such as the AP exam. I know people with an A from their HS teacher who only got a 3 on the AP chemistry exam and likewise someone who didn’t like the way chemistry was being taught in his HS who didn’t get good grades in it who got a 5. </p>
<p>If you and your advisor decide a chemistry course is the one to take don’t second guess that decision at the last minute. Your advisor will have looked at your HS grades and knows which college chemistry to recommend. Keep what you have.</p>
<p>Many students will have last minute doubts about their ability to handle courses this time of year. Don’t radically change the schedule you and your advisor discussed unless you get more faculty input advising you otherwise. You may have forgotten some of the reasons choices were made.</p>