<p>Hey~ Does anyone here know if Chem 109 satisfies the pre-med requirements or do we have to take Chem 327 as well (because I'd rather not T.T) and I feel like analytical chem is beyond what we are expected to know for the MCAT anyways.</p>
<p>Check with the premed advisors but I’ll bet you need the analytical chemistry.</p>
<p>The reasons to take courses is not for the MCAT, but for the knowledge you use to understand future information. As a physician you do not learn mere facts but the theory behind them so you can evaluate new information as it becomes available throughout your entire career. The chemistry required as an undergrad sets you up for the basic science courses you get in medical school. These in turn help you evaluate new drugs and therapies as well as patient lab data. Physicians are not just technicians.</p>
<p>You need to change your attitude towards your courses taken to satisfy premedical requirements. Do not study/learn material for the MCAT- that test is a mere sampling of your knowledge. Learn it to be able to best learn and understand future material. You are acquiring tools to understand why today’s and tomorrow’s medicine is practiced. There will be medical practices/treatments proposed that haven’t been thought of yet and the better grasp you have of why they work will help you decide which patients to offer them to.</p>
<p>It is a lot easier to learn material and solve problems in medical school if you understand the basics and aren’t relying on memorization alone. If you forget a formula needed but can derive it because you understand it a problem can be solved, or illogical answers eliminated when you know the principals being tested. Very simple chemistry example. Question asked about pH. You forget the formula used but you can do the derivation to get the formula needed and solve the problem. Acid-base applications in pulmonary pathophysiology.</p>
<p>You may think you are learning irrelevant material. Years later you will forget many of the facts, equations and formulas but the reasoning for those facts will remain. Understanding principals is imortant in being able to use those creatively when unknown situations occur. part of your college science courses’ benefit is in the training of how to think about problems, not in the facts learned. You also want to understand what the pharmacist, medical lab technicians and others are talking about regarding your patients.</p>
<p>Learn the material now so the basics are automatic and you can learn the added medical school material. The medical school material learned then makes it easier to quickly solve real patient problems.</p>
<p>Consider the material not needed directly as a physician as a bonus- you are in college to become educated, not just get job skills.</p>
<p>Hi, thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying it’s just that Chem isn’t exactly my strong point and I’d imagine chem 327 is extremely hard. I just know that the general chem sequence is 103/104 and 109 combines that together not because of Ap but jsut because it’s an accelerated course. But yeah… I’ll check with an advisor just in case.</p>
<p>You are taking Chem 109, while probably not as difficult as Chem 115, it does presume HS chemistry knowledge and is an accelerated course. If you are having problems with 109 be sure to go to office hours and ask for help. That is what they are there for, part of your TA’s job. If you can’t get help from your TA utilize the professor’s office hours.</p>
<p>The next course, analytical chemistry, is not an accelerated course and therefore shouldn’t be as difficult as 109 unless you don’t learn what is taught in 109.</p>
<p>Many a would be nurse or physician get derailed by chemistry. The ability to do the problem solving and learn the material is essential to success later. Perhaps you would need to talk to your professor and see if you can transfer to 103 this semester and then take 104 if you are doing badly. It could be that your HS preparation wasn’t enough to handle 109. This is something to discuss with your professor. I know it is past the add/drop dates but I’m sure the chemistry department can do any necessary switches among their courses. There is no guarantee that you would find 103 any easier, it depends on the nature of your problems. It may be that your TA can help you figure out what to do to improve.</p>
<p>This site is not the place to discuss the details, that is something for you to address with your TA/Professor. There may be additional materials they can recommend to you to help you fill in any knowledge/problem solving gaps. Notice how I emphasize problem solving- that is a critical skill in chemistry. I was a chemistry major (took 115-116 eons ago) and still remember how I came to UW with good HS problem solving skills and spent time with another freshman woman trying to explain how to do problems step by step converting units- she dropped her nursing hopes after trouble with Chemistry 108 (the semester course needed by nursing).</p>
<p>You must have some skills from HS or you would have been advised to take 103. Perhaps HS courses were at a slower pace, even AP ones, and you are adjusting to the UW college level of work after being able to quickly get through HS homework. Students taking chemistry 103 have reported on this site that it is not easy also. It may be that UW expects more than many freshmen are used to and there is an adjustment. UW’s Chemistry Department is highly ranked and they also have people active in the teaching of chemistry so you are getting good chemistry courses. This may be harder but the knowledge offered is better than in an easy, watered down course some other schools may offer (or chemistry is tough everywhere).</p>
<p>Remember that most physicians are not Chemistry majors so don’t worry if isn’t your best subject. Do not worry if you don’t get an A in one freshman course required for medical school. Do spend the time figuring out why you feel you are having trouble and correct the problem to the best of your ability. It may mean more time/effort or just realizing it is a demanding course that you will survive. I liked the problem solving more than the memorization required in learning the language of Organic Chemistry (just as I disliked the memorization required for Anatomy in medical school). Hang in there.</p>
<p>Yes. You need to take second semester Chem. You can choose from a few sequences:</p>
<p>Chem 103-104 General Chemistry
Chem 109 General & Analytic Chemistry and Chem 327 or 329
Chem 109 and Chem 311
Chem 115-116 Chemical Principles</p>
<p>it’s under the coursework tab in [University</a> of Wisconsin Madison | Center for Pre-Health Advising](<a href=“http://prehealth.wisc.edu/explore/medicine.html]University”>http://prehealth.wisc.edu/explore/medicine.html)
and that’s also what the premed advisor told us</p>
<p>Interesting link. Statistics now required, analytical not specifically required. Also, like for undergrad, the course rigor matters- meaning more weight given to more difficult course sequences. Meeting requirements is not usually sufficient when many others exceed them- something to consider when choosing courses.</p>
<p>Haha ok. It looks like I’ll be signing up for Chem 327 next semester then. Hopefully it’s not that hard like wis75 said. (Actually I’m in the honors version for Chem 109) and while it’s nice having that little H by the class it’s really quite time consuming. I’ll just stick with regular chem 327 then. If there’s even a regular vs. honors option.</p>
<p>Hmm…that’s weird that if you take 103-104 (which is what I did), then you don’t need a-chem. Either way, it doesn’t matter, because I need analytical chem for my major.</p>
<p>that’s because med schools want you to take “two semesters of general chemistry”. If you covered your gen chem in a semester (i.e. 109), you’re one semester short; analytical chem somehow covers this.</p>
<p>Taking courses for Honors when you can looks good on the application- for medical or graduate school. Along with any extra personal benefit- knowledge gained- something to consider.</p>
<p>That’s good advice wis75. I’m planning on taking chem 345 honors next semester. I’m taking 343 right now with Gellman (non-honors), but I really like him as a professor and he’s teaching 345 honors next semester.</p>
<p>Sorry… I’m back. I’m confused about the difference between 311 and 327. Can anyone help?</p>
<p>I just checked the UW Chemistry dept course descriptions. 311 is inorganic chemistry, 327 is analytical chemistry. Different areas of chemistry (the other 2 main areas being organic and physical). “Freshman” level, or general, chemistry is a mix of all areas. Other courses hone in on different aspects of chemistry.</p>
<p>If your still interested I am a freshman at UW, and I am pre-med. I was having the same dilemma not too long ago, and I definitely recommend 103-104. Chemistry is very rigorous and competitive. You are required to complete 2 semesters of inorganic and you definitely do NOT want to take 109-327. I came in thinking 103 would be an easy class, but its not that easy. A lot of kids in the class have had AP Chem exp. and almost everyone is premed. The students here really go at it. The party school image is really not what it seems. Students spend A LOT more time on school work than partying, and especially pre-meds (partying is saved for the weekends). Also 103-104 will give you much better prep. for the MCAT and O-Chem. A few weeks is dedicated to O-Chem in 104. If your serious about medical school by all means take 103-104. Another thing is to be mentally prepared when you get here. Your gonna work your ass off (I have a lot of friends at UIUC who are pre-med and they legit do half the work I do). Also you should try and find some research or get into the URS program, but I am sure you looked into all of the E.C.'s you need for med school. Not to jump around everywhere, but I find it very helpful to choose a major you LOVE, and follow the pre-med course track with that major. Best of luck, your gonna need it.</p>
<p>Ditto on choosing a major you love, not one that fulfills premed requirements. First, you will enjoy it a lot more, and therefore be more likely to study harder and get better grades than with a major you chose only because you think it will impress med school admissions committees. Also, less than half the students who have the intention of going to medical school (are premed) actually do. Some change their minds, others don’t get in. In case you end up changing directions it is good to have a direction that interests you- you won’t have wasted your college career just aiming for medical school. Have a plan B.</p>
<p>Regarding which chemistry sequence to follow. It depends on your background preparation in HS, your aptitude for the field and your interest. There will be premed students who also want the more intense/advanced chemistry and who can spend less effort learning the material than some who take 103-104. Just as there will be students who take the Biocore sequence instead of other biology courses to meet the requirements for medical schools.</p>
<p>I guess you should never underestimate any UW course, regardless of its number. Better to have to work hard, learn a lot and get your tuition money’s worth than to get easy A’s. Always remember the college journey is an experience, not just a means to a future. Treat every course as something of value for itself, not just a line on the requirements met form.</p>