Just got back last night from our trip to CA. My D shadowed a student at CaLARTS on Tuesday taking a full day’s worth of class. Then on Wednesday we toured Loyola Marymount and sat down with the head of the theater dept Kevin Wetmore. Classes were closed for Easter break so unfortunately she couldn’t get a look at any classes to gauge the talent level. Kevin spent a good hour and a half with us and we really liked him. Very quick witted with a great sense of humor…and he’s still going on auditions himself for acting jobs. He really sold us on the program (I voice recorded most of his talk so I will put the details in another post at some point). LMU is an auditioned BA but they only accept video auditions. I asked about the selectivity of the program and learned that it’s pretty much a non-audition program. The director watches the video submissions and gives admissions a list of who he wants. At that point admissions makes their decision academically. However, even if the student is not on the theater department’s list they may still be admitted as a theater major if admissions wants them. So there’s definitely going to be a range of talent levels based on this procedure. Kevin’s philosophy is that he is not only training actors but future audiences as well. LMU is also the only undergraduate program in the country whose students study at the Stanislovsky Theater in Moscow…they will be training right alongside MFAs from Ivy League programs. This was a huge draw for my D. Calarts has on their website that they have study abroad with RCS but when she inquired about it they said it was no longer happening. Apparently too many kids were coming over from RCS and transferring to Calarts and RCS got upset so stopped the exchange program. Too bad…
So while we were away last week my D got a self tape audition so I had to tell her agents that we really didn’t have a good place to tape it. Her agent ended up calling me and we had a lengthy conversation about my D’s future plans. She stressed again that this is the time to strike since she just turned 18 and it could be detrimental for her to go into a program where she can’t audition for four years. Again…she reiterated that the end goal is to get representation and she already has that. Anyway…they arranged for her to tape at the agency’s LA office so she got to meet the head of west coast Young Talent. He spoke with her at length (we were still in the waiting room!) and also discouraged her from going to a four year BFA program. He claimed casting directors don’t care where you went to school. He actually went so far as to tell her to move to LA and go to Santa Monica Community College! NOT! So…LMU looks like the most logical choice due to its location and their BA program which would allow more flexibility for her to continue to audition. That being said I certainly don’t want her schooling constantly disrupted with auditions. And if she books something big she will have to take a leave of absence from school. I mean…I know the goal is to be a successful actor but the other goal is to get a degree (at least as a parent that’s my goal for her). There’s a big monkey wrench though…LMU is $60K and they gave us nothing. I tried to appeal it but I was told that they already gave out more than they have and they don’t expect there to be any money left over. I was very upset about that…I think my D deserved to get a merit award from the beginning. In fact…she got a scholarship from all four of her BFA acceptances. Calarts emailed her a couple of days after she shadowed and offered her an additional scholarship and we didn’t even ask for it! That makes me feel like LMU really doesn’t want her and it puts a sour taste in my mouth. That being said I know they have a reputation for being less than generous and that’s because they are a Jesuit school with no endowment. What really kills me is all the money we’ve spend on audition coaching, travel and applications and she may end up at essentially a non-audition school! Makes me feel like it was all for nothing! And she was accepted to LMU back in mid-December so we could have just called it quits then! Of course there were other schools she was hoping for that didn’t come to be so I know she had to go through the whole process…I’m just playing Monday morning quarterback LOL. So there’s a lot to consider here and I’m very dazed and confused at this point!
If casting directors don’t really care where you went to school (which I agree with 100%) and if CALARTS will let her audition during her school years then I would choose there and save a ton of money
Hi @marg928 I feel your “pain” and confusion and frustration and . . . and the whole emotional roller coaster. (All of us do!) Since I was recently promoted from Junior Member to full-fledged “Member” - - I’m going to share from my newly-won position of knowledge [Insert Huge Winky Face here - LOL!]
But seriously, I hope I can help reduce your consternation (and not add to it).
First, I understand how you feel about spending all the money, time and effort in this process and then not getting the results you were hoping for. It’s tempting to throw your hands up and feel it “was all for nothing.” But don’t forget that the reason for the last several months of craziness was to help your daughter find the path that best suits her needs and goals. If you accomplish that in the end, then it won’t have been a waste. You can count it as a success - hard-won and costly maybe, but a success nonetheless.
Secondly, I disagree with your D’s agent’s assertion that “the end goal is to get representation.” The ULTIMATE “end goal” is to be a successful,working, self-supporting actress. (In truth, almost anyone can get “representation” if they knock on enough doors and are willing to take what is offered.) I agree that your D’s new profile “18 to play younger” does open up more opportunities to her – providing she can “look” 13 or 14. However, competition is fierce among that age bracket because NY & LA are over-flowing with girls exactly like that and the high-paying, career-making roles are very difficult to book. (I’m not saying your D isn’t bookable, just that there are never any guarantees of work in this field.)
Plus, she is only going to be able to pull-off the younger look for a couple years. In the long run,she’ll have the rest of her acting career in front of her and will be competing with well-trained, seasoned actresses for the next 15 or 20 years. That is what she needs to be prepared for. And that is where solid training or lack of it – will make or break her career.
Your D has some other great choices in her accepted list. I know she was excited about California, but perhaps she might want to reconsider some of her east-coast options. Both Pace and PPU are fine programs. And both offer study abroad programs which seems to be an interest of hers.
Hi @marg928 - I have enjoyed the benefit of your posts over the last month or so and I wanted to share some thoughts I have had now that my D is in final stages of decision making. I look back on the last 6-8 months as an essential part of my D’s growing process… the audition coaching (we also used MTCA) was huge in helping to bring out her unique qualities, the strenuous schedule, the 23 auditions, the seeing her coaches on Broadway and seeing how they really live, the meeting hundreds of other hugely talented students from all over the country who were also trying to “get into” the 5 or 9 or 20 spots open to girls in any one program, the “rejections”, the “redirects”, the “waitlists” and the programs who said “yes - we would really like you in our program”… what a priceless experience! The grace, the wisdom, the renewed passion, the determination, the memories - not what I was focused on as the end result - but definitely wonderful benefits that will serve her well as she develops a career in this field. I have been thinking of the money and effort spent during this audition time as a “finishing” school for my performing artist before she heads off to college and begins to make her choices and decisions as an “adult” and having the perspective of all of this hands-on learning in her field with all these other students her age going through the same process.
Everything she experienced during this period will be there for her as she makes career choices, if she decides to focus on other fields of study, etc. At the end of the process, my D had audition and non-audition acceptances for BAs in addition to the BFAs… she really considered carefully the non-audition ones as well as the audition ones. If your D ultimately chooses a non-audition program… at least your efforts provided her with choices and opportunities and she was able to decide what was truly important to her in her college years.
The school I believe my D will end up at is one that also had accepted her “way back” in January. If I had halted the process after that acceptance… we would have felt cheated not knowing what else may come out of the process. The additional auditions in Chicago and New England further honed her talent and confidence. Exploring the additional options she received after that acceptance is what helped her to clarify what was really important to her and guided the decision-making process to something very real and not based on brand recognition nor on-paper fit.
For us, the ultimate net cost has been a major factor and definitely influenced the decision-tree. My D passed over some options which looked very appealing because there was a 30K/year difference between them and some other options. But I do get that each family and each artist has specific needs and resources.
Best of luck to you and your D on her ultimate choice…
Well said @Eliza806. I agree that the long audition process had its own intrinsic benefits. It helped my D to really focus on what she wanted out of college. Moreover, it was a little bit of a preview about what’s to come in the sense that once out of college she will be auditioning (hopefully) many times with lots of rejection and while exhausted or sick too. My D grew a little tired toward the end, but mostly loved the audition process. Thus, for me, it helped to show that this was what she was meant for.
Thanks for your input @Eliza806 and @daughtersdreams. Everything you have said I have thought about myself. My D does have options that won’t cost $60K per year. She could do a BA Theater at Rutgers or SUNY Purchase and she could continue to audition. She could do the BFA at Pace which would cost about $40K but I don’t think she would be able to audition while in that program. @bisouu CaLARTS said you can audition but you can’t miss more than two days of school for it, so essentially they’re saying you can’t audition! It would be about $10K less than LMU but she could possibly make that money up if she were to book a national commercial. So really it wouldn’t save a ton of money. She won’t even consider Point Park and it’s only $33K with her scholarship. UNCSA is a relative bargain but she’s still on the waitlist. Not sure what she would even want to do at this point if she came off given the fact that they don’t allow auditioning either. Obviously the guy who left there to be in Manchester by the Sea did not heed those rules LOL.
I guess you have to weigh the odds. @marg928 what are the realistic chances that she would book anything while in college? Many have gone several years without booking anything new. Maybe making the college decision on whether she can audition or not should be put at the bottom of your decision list. Choose what school feels right or has the most interesting curriculum etc. and let the rest work itself out. If something comes up that she just can’t turn down then she could do a leave of absence or leave school altogether and go back at a later date. I have two friends whose kids have done just that.
@marg928 The teen from Manchester by the Sea, Lucas Hedges auditioned for the role and got it when he was a senior in high school. I guess UNCSA didn’t have a problem with it as they knew ahead of time. Lucas dad is Peter Hedges’ novelist, playwright, screenwriter, and film director. He wrote the novel What’s Eating Gilbert Grape which was adapted into the critically acclaimed movie which launched his film career. He received an Academy Award nomination for Best Adapted Screenplay for About a Boy. He also wrote and directed Pieces of April, starring Katie Holmes and Dan In Real Life.
Lucas didn’t need his Dad to get into UNCSA obviously he is talented in his own right. It’s in their DNA, just thought it was a neat story and wanted to share.
@marg928 there are a few kids at UNCSA who audition but it would be extremely difficult to work while in school should they book anything. Impossible given the schedule. They definitely do not want you to have outside distractions and for most students there it is fine because they thrive on the training they are getting.
Manchester by the Sea was made while that student was still in high school. He decided that to do all the press tours,etc, he couldn’t be in school too. I hear he didn’t want to leave actually but couldn’t manage both.
It is a hard decision for your D for sure. Good luck.
@marg928 Loyola Marymount is a wonderful school and it would be perfectly situated for her to audition in Los Angeles which sounds like a high priority for her. I totally get your dilemma as my D is also choosing a very expensive program that offers limited scholarship dollars when she has other options that have offered much more. But it truly is the best fit for her and that is ultimately what we had to weigh against the cost. Sounds like your D has some amazing opportunities through her agent and needs the flexibility Loyola would provide while also giving her great a great education from a fine school. Best of luck with your decision.
@marg928 , I think a big question I would ask of your D at this point is “Is this your passion? Do you see yourself doing this for a long period of time and being happy?” If I remember correctly, your D is relatively new to the decision to pursue this as a college curriculum. Has she thought of majoring in something else and still auditioning? If her agent(s) are correct and it doesn’t matter if she has a BFA, then she could get a degree in broadcasting or something and pursue jobs on the side. I agree with the above post that maybe the end game is not to get representation but to get to do what she loves as a career and that may or may not include having a “big name” agent. Everyone on this crazy journey will have varying levels of success and everyone on this journey will find happiness in different environments. So I guess what I am trying to say is your D will have to make that decision about what it is she is truly looking for in her future. Good luck with her decision, I am sure she will be very successful no matter what she decides and it sounds like you will be right there cheering her on which is so very important at this age!
@marg928 My daughters, ages 27 and 22, have known a lot of “theatre kids” in the NYC area through shows, school and performing arts camp. Of all of those young actors, the most successful is a girl who headed to CA at the age of 18 and goes to school p/t (in a non theatre major) in LA. (She is listed on a compilation of young actors on another CC thread.) My d’s other friends all attended programs top programs at schools like NYU, Carnegie Mellon, BOCO, Temple, Pace, Indiana, Muhlenberg, Hartt, Rider, and Emerson.
In the last years this actress has booked several tv series and films and is now repped by CAA. Her career is on an upswing.
It was without doubt the right decision to move to LA to audition and take advantage of a time when she could book teen age roles. She has now grown into older roles and they are getting bigger.
I am a strong proponent of education, but I do think the acting world is an exception, and many of the skills you need for success can be taken outside of a degree program if you’re talented enough and have an agent who is truly working on your behalf.
I would have D audition, pick a coast as a base, and take outside acting, dance voice classes as well as begin work towards a BA in a major that allows for flexibility. Ironically, my studio art D at NYU had a lot of working models and actors in her program. They would audition in NYC while they took art classes at night after their daytime foundation requirements were met part-time.
I would only recommend this approach to a young actor with experience working as an actor, a good agent, a real certainty they’re in the right business and parents who are prepared to accept this lifestyle.
You guys are the best! Thanks for all the support I appreciate it so much. If LMU is the choice my D will definitely minor in something…she’s considering either history, journalism or classics and archeology. She said she would even consider double majoring…we’ll see. At least I will feel that it’s money well spent if she comes out of there with something to fall back on.
@marg928, unless your D is dead set on going to school in CA, I would advise you guys to take a closer look at both SUNY Purchase and Pace programs. I know that her main concern is being able to audition while in college. Well, D has a friend at Pace and another one at SUNY Purchase, and they both keep auditioning in NY while in school, booking jobs every now and then. We are not talking about studio feature films that require being away for months, but commercials, as well as episodic work that sometimes require multiple days on set. So it seems to be totally possible to audition and work out of NY while attending one of the schools on your D’s acceptance list.
@actingbee she was scheduled to go to the Pace overnight (today and tomorrow) but decided to cancel. I had hoped she would at least go with an open mind but LMU feels right to her. We decided the fair thing was to cancel and open up a spot for someone else. My older daughter is graduating from Pace in May and I went there myself so we’re very familiar with it. That’s probably the main reason she’s not interested! And she loved the campus at Purchase but feels that if she’s going to do a BA she would rather it be at school without a BFA. Her coach did stress that there was a difference. I will say the LMU’s BA has a relatively high credit requirement in the major at 56. Compare that to FSU at 37, Rutgers at 47, Purchase at 49, USC at 52 and American at 51 it’s the highest off all the schools she applied to except UW (which she didn’t get into).
@marge928 My daughter’s close friend went to Pace for a semester. He wasn’t happy and transferred to LMU and never looked back. He loves, loves, loves it there and is doing very well. My daughter regrets not applying to LMU because she didn’t get into the 2 other CA schools she applied to. It’s a great school in a great location, what more could you ask for? And it’s a stone’s throw from Venice Beach and also the airport. Honestly I think she’d be bored at Purchase. It’s not that close to the city, 1.5 hour train ride, and my son’s ex-girlfriend did the BA program and transferred out into songwriting because she didn’t feel it measured up. The fact that she will be in a good location to keep auditioning is great and if it doesn’t work out and she feels she wants a more intense BFA she can re-apply as a transfer next year. The only down side is it’s far away for you!
When we visited Pace they mentioned that you could audition and that they gave students time off if they got cast in a broadway show…you might want to double check. CalArts is a very intense program, there is no time to audition really. Classes are all day and then rehearsals go until 11pm most nights and Saturdays. Some kids do one day shoots with the film students. I will say that if she wants to do stage work they do look at where you have studied. Although as in all things acting it really comes down to your audition and if you are a fit for what the director is looking for. Best of luck to your d!
@astute12 I told my D she should double check with Pace about that but bottom line Cali was a-calling’. My older D chose Pace for dance because they claimed they were the only program that would allow you to audition and that ended up being a big fat lie. Not that you can compare because the programs are separate with different directors…you just can’t trust what they say all the time. Even at LMU, they don’t mind to an extent but if you book something that takes up weeks then you have to take a leave of absence of course.
Same for CCPA. Outside work, within limits, is permitted sometimes and sometimes not. Anything like a tour or a broadway run, though, and you have to take leave-of-absence, not that anyone ever seems to come back.
