Hey everybody, I know this sounds like a long shot, but I’m concerned that Penn won’t accept as many students ED because of all the recent criticism. Do you think it’ll help if we somehow band together and plead? I found a recent alumnus’s comment that provides a pretty good argument,
"Penn should admit more students ED, for the sake of the overall campus feel, and also considering that ED applicants increased by 10%. If Penn admits students who love Penn enough to apply ED, then the campus will be filled with students who chose Penn because they loved it, not because they didn’t get into HYPSM. It is true that some families may not feel that they can afford Penn; however, people are free to calculate their financial aid through the net price calculators. Penn meets 100% of demonstrated need.
If the difference between Penn’s ED and RD acceptance rate grows smaller, there’s little incentive for people to apply ED, especially those who don’t have legacy. In that case, even if Penn were my top choice, I wouldn’t apply ED because I could instead spend more time on my application and have more time to garner awards.
Penn isn’t second tier to other ivies, and if rankings are what determine “tier-level”, then Penn should feel free to boost their rankings however they want to, especially because it deserves to be ranked higher. Penn’s engineering program, for example, only ranks in the top 20, even though I found it much more difficult and rewarding than Stanford’s engineering program, which is ranked in the top 3."
To this I might add that the ED acceptance rate should be much higher than SCEA acceptance rates because EDs are binding (Princeton’s is 15%, for example, almost giving the same boost an ED does). Penn’s ED acceptance rate of around ~22% might not even be high enough. Northwestern’s ED and Swarthmore’s ED acceptance rate are around ~35% even though their total acceptance rates are around the same to those of Princeton.
While Penn offers generous aid to many families, there are just as many families, especially in the so-called “upper middle class”, that are unable to apply ED because the demonstrated need is simply unreflective of their circumstances. Consequently, they are forced to apply RD so they can compare their financial aid packages even if they absolutely love Penn. ED contracts can be terminated for financial reasons, but due to the timing (ED decisions come out in Mid-Dec; RD deadline is in early January) most families don’t find that to be a viable option either.
I applied ED, so I appreciate your effort, but the argument is flawed.
I don’t understand your statement, " ED contracts can be terminated for financial reasons, but due to the timing (ED decisions come out in Mid-Dec; RD deadline is in early January) most families don’t find that to be a viable option either." Families can be writing applications in the meantime so that if they don’t receive the package they like, they can rescind their ED and apply RD.
Also, the quote isn’t my words. What I say follows the quote, explaining how Penn’s peer schools have over a 3x ED boost while Penn only has a 2x ED boost. So if anything, to match its peer schools with similar acceptance rates, Penn should increase the ED acceptance rate, definitely not decrease it.
Your financial aid package doesn’t always come with your decision. There are often delays. On top of that, families must consult with the financial aid service representatives at Penn to discuss the situation. By the time, they are released, the RD deadline may have passed. I know people that have missed RD deadlines this way.
You are also not considering the fact that many guidance counselors are unwilling to the sign ED contract if your family cannot afford the cost and may have to withdraw. Terminating the ED contract can affect the way students from your school are seen and evaluated in future years.
I purposely said THE argument not YOUR argument.
Penn’s ED acceptance rate is comparable to those of Cornell, Dartmouth, and Brown. They are peer Ivy League schools with ED programs and similar RD acceptance rates.
@Burrito12 Penn uses too much of its ED pool as it is. If I am not mistaken Penn accepts the highest percentage of its class ED than any other ivy, Stanford, MIT. Arguably these are Penn’s main peer schools and none of them provides the kind of ED boost Penn provides.
This is not a serious argument. Sure you want people who love Penn but you also want the most qualified people you can possibly get. Having Penn as your first choice is not a reason in and of itself to be admitted. Of course Penn should prefer very qualified HYPSM rejects over more lackluster applicants who applied to Penn ED to maximize their chances (btw there is a good number of those) or because they loved Penn.
This is not how elite school reputations work, especially for schools already in the top 10. Maybe Penn would deserve to be ranked a bit higher, but no other USNews ranking position within the top 10 would drastically alter how most people perceive it, i.e. as a top 10 school that is a notch below HYPSM. There are many examples of colleges (including Penn) that are ranked or were ranked in the past for many years in the top 5 of USNews but still never managed to be considered on par with HYPSM. A school that is already in the top 10 would be wasting its time chasing a higher ranking. If anything, such blatant use of ED and gaming of rankings makes a school look less elite.
Penn ED acceptance rate is 22%. RD is 7%. Even after accounting for legacies and athletes I guesstimate that the ED acceptance rate is at least 13-15% so there is still a substantial difference there, about double the chances. I can walk you though my calculation if you want but it is long and boring. I basically looked at the reported percentage of legacy applicants (16%), estimated the legacy acceptance rate based a figure reported on the DP ( ~ 40-45%) and determined a somewhat inflated number of athletes in each year (~200).
If only the reality were as simple and rosy as this. The timing does not always work out. Also many middle-class families are much better off comparing FA packages and negotiating with schools. ED does not allow them to do this. Penn claims it meets 100% of demonstrated need, but this is a very dubious statement and in reality does not always hold true.
They are already under great pressure for filling half of its class in ED. So they put a cap on it. As early application is becoming more and more popular, ED acceptance will be coming down, and ED advantage will be diminishing. At some point, they may re-evaluate the cap. But definitely not now.
Pleading never works. Lol. They don’t accept you because you beg or love love love the school and are desperate to go there. Those aren’t strengths. They accept kids who match and fit their institutional needs. It’s not that hard to figure out what they look for, though most seem not to.
And meeting 100% of need is a calculation, not what you wish. If you know your budget and run the NPC, assuming married parents who aren’t self employed, you aren’t sitting there waiting for a magic number.
OP, you need to be rational about Early chances. Or RD, for that matter. Early doesn’t turn a long shot into a given.
I just think that it’s unfair that Penn is under such scrutiny while other elite colleges, such as Northwestern and Swarthmore, are flying by with even higher contrasts between ED and RD.
So be it. There’s lots more to consider and there are no guarantees when dealing with an institution and its needs. You carefully match yourself, then hope for the best, and have a happy backup plan.
@Penn95 This is obviously not related to Penn, but as for your statement, “Having Penn as your first choice is not a reason in and of itself to be admitted. Of course Penn should prefer very qualified HYPSM rejects over more lackluster applicants who applied to Penn ED to maximize their chances (btw there is a good number of those) or because they loved Penn,” I don’t agree. The Ivy League is not based on meritocracy; if it were, affirmative action, geographic diversity, and gender preferred admissions for certain majors wouldn’t exist.
Oh, boy. The Ivies define merit in the ways that suit them. It’s not purely quantitative, nor what passes for merit in the hs setting.
If you don’t have a solid idea of what a most-competitive college actually looks for, maybe focusing on “unfair” makes sense to you. But really, what you should have been concerned about was your own match, as they will see it. Modifying ED is not a magic key.
The ivy league is not a compete meritocracy but it has many meritocratic elements. Penn and other ivies need to get as many of the most qualified students as they can get from the unhooked applicant pool so that they can have leeway when it comes to legacies, affirmative action, athletes, development cases etc. So of course it is in Penn’s best interest to choose a very qualified HYPSM reject who had Penn as her 3rd or 4th choice over a relatively lackluster ED applicant who absolutely loved Penn.