@northwesty thanks! And you are correct, no merit aid from Gtown!!!
Smith College Class of 2021 Stats
Some figures for the Class of 2021 were reported in two places
- here: https://www.smith.edu/about-smith/institutional-research-smith-data
- and here: https://www.smith.edu/news/a-record-number-of-applicants/
Summarizing, for the Class of 2021:
Total Applied: 5,432
Total Accepted: 1,731
Enrolled: 639
Total accept rate: 31.9%
Total yield rate: 36.9%
Other data points for Class of 2021:
ED Applications: 544
ED Acceptances: (not publicly disclosed yet)
Regular Applications: 4,888
Now for some comparisons to the Class of 2020. Per the Class of 2020 stats thread on CC, the comparable figures for the prior class were:
Total accept rate: ED1/ED2/RD 1955 out of 5252 (37.2%)
Total yield rate: 32%
From the 2016-2017 CDS (https://www.smith.edu/sites/default/files/media/Office%20Images/Institutional-Research/Smith%20College_CDS_2016-2017.pdf ) we can now see that the Class of 2020 ED Accept Rate was 260/460 or 56.5% (CDS page 11). Therefore, the Class of 2020 RD accept rate was (1955-260)/(5252-460) = 35.4%
To my knowledge, the number of Class of 2021 ED Acceptances has not been reported, which means that one has to guesstimate if one wants to compute a Class of 2021 RD acceptance rate. But, there are enough of the other figures reported now that a reasonable such guesstimate would be a Class of 2021 RD Acceptance Rate of ~30%. To see this, assume 260 ED admits again for 2021. Then the RD accept rate calculation becomes (1,731-260)/(5,432-544)= 30%.
VU is #48 would be much higher if they had a larger graduate school program. Focus remains on students.
I am sure that “only-need-based” financial aid plan sounds fine to the Nova administration. I graduated from Georgetown about 25 years ago. I had off-the-chart academics and test scores, and could have gone pretty much anywhere, but I wanted to be in DC. However, all their aid was what they euphemistically called “need-based.” I fell into the black hole of way-too-poor-to-afford-the-enormous-cost but not-poor-enough-for-them-to-give-me-any-aid. So I worked throughout school but still assumed large student loans. Still graduated magna cum. I am now mid-six-figures income for several years. I like to give to charities, and they are always asking me for money, and I would be a prime candidate to make alumni contributions. But I never forgot the way they treated me. I’ll let you guess how much I have given them.
@Jawtek82 I think a lot of us are in the same boat as you, as will be some of our children. I can’t tell from your post though, are you implying that some of the other schools on par with Georgetown would have given you money? For argument’s sake, let’s say the top 20-25 schools…do any of them give merit aid? Did they 25 years ago?
I think there is a lot of merit aid available to top students but the tippy top schools aren’t the ones giving it out.
@collegemomjam - Yes, there were other very good schools that offered merit aid at that time. University of Virginia, Michigan, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Tulane . . . I think most of them still do. And I was offered some need-based aid at another school - but not GTown. Someone can correct me, but I think they all use the same standards for need-based aid now, so if you strike out at one, you strike out everywhere (and if so, IMO that ought to be an illegal conspiracy in restraint of trade - I do not believe that colleges should be allowed to share ANY data at all).
But anyway . . . (no offense alumni), but what makes Villanova think they are one of the top 20-25 schools? Maybe barely in the top 50. Keep cutting aid for exceptional students and see where that gets you in terms of the quality of applicants and acceptances. At some point, State U looks very appealing (especially if State U is someplace like University of Virginia, or Michigan, or Cal Berkeley, etc.).
I have been blessed and I am fortunate that I already set aside plenty to cover my kids’ college many years ago, so we will not be in that boat regardless.
To be clear, I have no regrets about Georgetown, and I still live “inside the Beltway” and I am sure I would feel the same way about any other school that did the same. But they sure as heck did not lift ONE finger to help me, and I will be damned if I am going to lift one finger to help them. If they had at least thrown me a bone I would have been grateful and felt a sense of duty to pay it forward. But they didn’t and I struggled on my own. I guess I’m petty. Sue me.
I don’t think they do. We got very different financial aid packages from different schools in S and D’s admissions cycles, using the same family income, assets,etc. Some schools wanted more info than others - Brown wanted to know about the cars we owned, for instance.
Some differences were due to institutional resources - the beast packages came from the wealthiest schools, or it was about where my kids were in terms of the school profile - where they were among the highest scores/stats they also got the best packages.
@Jawtek82 Those are all great points.
As for Villanova…I agree with what you are saying/implying. I also think they had one really strong year coming off of the b school ranking and the ncaa but I’m wondering if they will be able to maintain that. I also don’t want to insult anybody, but I don’t hear great things about Villanova in the social and residential areas. Let’s see what the ED does for their stats, too…it may increase their yield but it may not increase their average scores which may have peaked out last year.
I went to Boston College back in the 80’s and I did get merit aid but I also had need based aid so I’m not sure if that got me the merit aid also (but it was definitely an academic scholarship because I had to maintain a certain GPA). But they now only give the 15 full tuition merit aid scholarships per year and the rest is need based.
My daughter is at Georgetown not receiving merit aid who also got into UVA and UNC and didn’t get a dime from them, and they both give out merit aid. She got into Notre Dame but no money there. And she got into BC (no Gabelli) and Dartmouth who of course does NOT give merit aid. So yes we are paying 70K per year…hope it’s worth it!! She’s working hard…
I completely agree with you. For financial reasons, I was unable to attend CalTech for undergrad and ended up at my state flagship with a full ride. Now financially successful, I enjoy contributing there more than anywhere else, and I hope to endow a scholarship there in the future.
On the other hand, my daughter is in her first year at a top 10 school, where a scholarship was promised to NMSF finalists, and then cut in half. They won’t get a dime from me, and this will probably cost them 30x what they saved.
Regarding the methodologies used to disseminate need-based aid
There are two different methodologies that the schools can use. I forget what they are called but one takes assets into account and the other doesn’t and mainly uses income.
I think the EFC (Expected Family Contribution) should technically be the same for the schools the use the same methodology. The differences might be when and if they take merit into account when giving you need based aid, but I’m not sure. But if you use the Net Price Calculator on each school’s website (they are required to have this) it might help explain what they are using at that particular school to make their aid decisions.
Another difference could be that some schools flat out say they do or do not meet full demonstrated need. Sounds like we are mainly talking about top schools here so usually they meet full demonstrated need (even if they are not need blind…those are two different things).
@hebegebe and @Jawtek82 have either of you ever considered writing a letter to the institutions that denied you aid? It might not change their policies but you never know, if they receive enough polite “complaints” or are made aware of their lost opportunities to increase their endowments, it may make them reconsider their policies.
I thought I had read that Georgetown doesn’t have as big as an endowment as Notre Dame…maybe they should get this feedback. Notre Dame has insanely loyal alumni, I know.
For the record, as I mentioned earlier, BC did give me merit aid in the 80’s (back when they gave it out!) and I am a donor (but nothing crazy…just one of my monthly contributions). Not sure if my daughter who is a junior there now will ever donate being she didn’t get merit aid…not sure it will be a factor but then again, she’s not the one paying the bill.
Oh, I let the top-10 school know all right. I raised enough of a stink that the director of admissions contacted me himself, and I told him the bait-and-switch was “unworthy of a top educational institution”. He didn’t change the policy for our school year, but I noticed that the information was much more clear for the Class of 2022.
@collegemomjam - I did write to them a few years after graduation when they were sending my letters for alumni contributions. I never heard back . . . but I can’t remember the last time I got a letter from them, either.
$70K per year . . . wow! Blows my mind. I don’t want to make you feel bad so I won’t tell you how much it was when I was there (it has gone up a LOT more than inflation), but even that was very daunting to me at the time. You’re a good Mom and sounds lime your DD appreciates it with her hard work. Good luck!
@hebegbe - Yep, that is what is crazy and I tried to explain to them the one time I wrote them. I was in a position where I got NO money from my parents - I was literally on my own. I didn’t expect a full ride on tuition or anything (although I wouldn’t have turned it down!), but maybe even a 10% break would have been really nice and I would have really appreciated that. At that time, back in the Dark Ages, that would have been just a few thou. They would have got that 30x return you mentioned and maybe more. They have to be smart enough to understand that, so I think that they just want all aid to be (what they call) need-based for other reasons. Perhaps they believe (wrongly) that it is egalitarian and that makes them feel better about themselves. I have learned this much in life: if you are feeling a certain way about things, there is a good chance that a bunch of other folks feel the same way and just don’t say anything. So I think what I am saying multiplies.
Thanks @Jawtek82, she does appreciate it. I hope it pays off! BC costs the same so we are really feeling it with two in private colleges with no aid! When I went to BC it was 15K for everything and I think they gave me 4K in merit (not bad, I guess!). And I had loans…paying it forward as my dad paid every dime back for me…worked three jobs while I was in college. And my mom worked two! It paid off as I did well after graduation and was/am able to spend time with my parents (dad passed) enjoying a more comfortable life now. Hope it pays off for my kids too!
@Jawtek82 Schools cannot share financial aid information. The Ivies did a long time ago and were successfully sued for collusion and now you’ll get different packages from different schools with Harvard and Princeton being the best generally. Also schools have different criteria to determine your need. Brown triples your primary home equity as an asset, Princeton doesn’t consider equity in a primary home at all for example.
“Yes, there were other very good schools that offered merit aid at that time. University of Virginia, Michigan, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Tulane . . . I think most of them still do. Someone can correct me.”
In the 1-15 band today, merit money basically doesn’t exist except for ultra ultra ultra competitive schollies. Getting, for example, an A.B. Duke (maybe 12 kids a year) at Duke is not all that much easier than getting a Rhodes scholarship to Oxford. Mere mortals need not apply. Gtown does zero. UVA has the Jefferson, which (like the AB Duke) isn’t for mere mortals. The vibe at the top schools is pretty much – “we are SOOO awesome that we don’t have to pay awesome kids to get them to come here.”
In the top 15-25 range, you see small merit scholarship money but so competitive that no one can really plan on getting it. Vandy probably does the most merit within this level, but USC, Emory, WUSTL, ND, BC and Rice do some too.
Above 25, then you start to see more available merit money that super-smart mere mortals could reasonably expect to get (like Tulane, Miami, etc.).
Great assessment @northwesty My daughter at BC with zero merit actually got quite a bit of merit aid from both Miami and Tulane, just like you said! It was tempting and really made her feel great. All great schools.
“We are SOOO awesome that we don’t have to pay awesome kids to get them to come here.”
And its working for them very well. Remember, something like 40-50% of students at top 25 schools are full pay.
Wow I clicked this thread by accident but everything people are saying about Villanova is so spot on. It was my Georgetown, ND safety and after a reject and a waitlist I ended up here. I’m so not impressed with the dorm and social life and feel that everything is geared toward one specific type of person (not me). Most likely transferring. I think the B school will stay up but not A&S. Everything here is geared toward job placement and not so much graduate school. Which is why it works out well for business students and not as much for liberal arts.