College Disaster

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Some quick background: I was a great HS student, involved in many things, straight As, great SAT scores, the works. Got accepted to all the schools I was interested in, including a near full-ride to my state university which I was not so interested in. I now attend my state school.</p>

<p>The problem? I have a 2.5, and I've taken nothing above a 200-level course, nor have I stretched myself in terms of credits - I took 15 first semester, 13, then 12. I'm not involved in anything. I love my friends but I just can't get involved in the academics and the school itself.</p>

<p>Part of the problem is that the strength of the school I'm attending is not really humanities. I have switched majors around tons of times, and now I'm settled on what I was best in in HS - English and History. The problem is in the history courses at least, the professors are dull as rocks and the readings are MANY and HARD but in class we talk only about the most basic points - so I feel like I have not only wasted my time in lecture, but also on the readings. Many of the same teachers repeat in the upper-level courses so I have no hope that things will get better...The worst is the "discussions" where I feel like nobody, even the TA, knows what they are talking about.</p>

<p>In HS, I felt like my teachers were Gods, like they knew everything and could put anything in a smarter, more humorous way than I could. Sure, some were bad apples, but I could just do the work and get an A, anyway, and look forward to my real classes. Here, everything is such a drag and I can barely get myself to class. </p>

<p>Indeed, I feel just as hopeless about the entertainment value as I do about the grading. In an easy intro class, I work my butt off on a paper and think I did an amazing job, and get a B (with comments everywhere asking why I didn't mention such and such RIGHT next to the part where I mention such and such!). I have talked to professors and TAs and all I get is vagueness about how it wasn't "exactly what they were looking for." In a more specific class or an honors class, I make up some random crap at the last minute and I get an A and glowing praise of how I am a genius writer.</p>

<p>As far as clubs, I have attended meetings for quite a few, but it seems that those I am interested in are ENORMOUS. At the meeting for the last club that I was very interested in, there were over 75 people there. I felt so awkward sitting alone when everyone was chatting with a huge group of friends. I have always been shy so maybe the "big school" thing isn't right for me in terms of finding student clubs and groups to get involved with.</p>

<p>I just can't get myself into this school, which maybe explains why I got a B- in a "intro to university life" class first semester, failed most of my classes second semester, and am now in some kind of limbo where I am hoping desperately for a mix of Bs and Cs.</p>

<p>This isn't the student I am or the person I am, and I don't know what to do about it. How can I get myself into this school, engaged, and succeeding?</p>

2

<p>Is there a counseling center you can go to on campus that can provide support and direct you to other campus resources, including tutors? I’d check them out ASAP & also go & talk with your instructors & TAs more to get a better understanding of why what you think you’re communicating isn’t being understood as such by them on your papers.</p>

<p>They might also be able to direct you to clubs/orgs that match what you’re interested in/looking for.</p>

<p>It might be worthwhile attending some of the even ENORMOUS clubs/meetings – often many show up for the initial meeting or two or three & then the numbers dwindle as people start making choices for their time & resources.</p>

3

<p>Didn’t really find that to be the case as I really have sampled clubs all year long…the two clubs I was really feeling were that crowded as little as a week ago :(.</p>

<p>I have gone to the counseling center and talked about this (started over the summer and just stopped recently, tried two different people), but it seems completely useless. They feel like their purpose is just to listen, not to give constructive criticism or suggestions. So, I end up feeling like I’m talking to a wall. I even explicitly told both of them that I was really looking for feedback, help, etc. and the second one just flat out said, “To me, the point of counseling is to just have someone there who you feel like is listening.” And I was like, ok. I can just journal, thanks.</p>

<p>Tutors usually find nothing wrong with the work I am proud of. Part of the reason I feel so annoyed is because I KNOW that the TAs are #1 basically only a year or two older than me most of the time, or if not, they have concentrated in areas not even related to the subject matter #2 stressed, and don’t read papers carefully. So, those are the reasons I come up with for inconsistent grading. I think it’s mostly the second when it comes to papers I really slave over, as I am not just a perfectionist in details but also in prose. Friends often complain that my writing is difficult to read because of the vocabulary and long sentences and subtleties, something a stressed TA will just look at and say, eh, no thanks, I’d rather give the paper that spits out exactly what the prof said in lecture an A.</p>

4

<p>I’d suggest you give the counseling center another try–ask to try one of the more experienced counselors that help students in similar situations. A good counselor does more than just listen and can help you figure out an action plan appropriate for your situation and school.</p>

<p>It sounds like perhaps you would benefit from a writing tutor to help make your writing easier to follow and enjoyable to read. There are ways of writing that don’t compromise vocabulary while still making it easy for the reader to follow the train of your thought.</p>

5

<p>I understand where you are. I went to a big school too and had trouble at times, especially in big classes. It seemed I could never figure out what my professors wanted - and I was bored to tears in some of the big lecture halls.
I did try some outside activities that were very helpful… I actually volunteered as a crisis counselor (which required intensive training) and met some really nice people. I also found out that this was NOT what I wanted to do for my career.
In any case, my suggestion is to keep trying on the clubs and activities until you find something that feels right. Don’t worry about resume building - go for what you like - and if you wait it out a bit - the crowd will probably thin out. If you feel funny going alone, can you ask a friend to go to a meeting with you where you might have mutual interests? </p>

<p>Regarding classes, If I had to do it all over again, I would take advantage of office hours and meet with my professors - early on - to find out what their expectations are. I was rather invisible (by choice) and this did not help at ALL.
Also, try as hard as you can to develop a more positive attitude about your school. I’m sure there are many successful graduates from your school…it can’t be all that bad. It seems you went in with a bad impression and perhaps you’re setting yourself up to fail. </p>

<p>Oh, and I do a lot of writing. If your sentences are very long and filled with big words, then you are not YET a good writer (unless you want to be a lawyer of course). But self awareness is a good first step. Can you take a writing course at your school?</p>

6

<p>Actually, the best attorneys are good writers and make things easy to understand (rather than hiding behind a lot of jargon and long words). :slight_smile: I know because I have been fortunate to know the good, bad & ugly in the legal profession over these past decades.</p>

7

<p>Well, actually, you only get a set number of counseling sessions so I’m just out of luck with the counseling center anyways. But I have been to therapists outside of school and man…they all seem awfully similar. </p>

<p>It’s not as if I /can’t/ get a good grade on a paper, because I have and can! It’s just the inconsistency that bugs me, and reading comments that have no relevance or clearly show that the TA was not paying close attention to what I wrote. I went to the writing center once and they were hands down astonished I came to see them. They said that I wrote beautifully. My writing is my strength, so I only mentioned it as one thing that’s frustrating me here…In HS I always received insightful comments on my papers, but here I just feel like they are saying things to say them and not even reading my paper. I have never “hid behind jargon,” rather, I am just a perfectionist for details.</p>

8

<p>I can easily send anyone a paragraph sample of something I just wrote for a class to show that I don’t really think it’s a problem with my writing. After all, SOMETIMES I get As…hah!</p>

9

<p>Sorry you’re having such a tough time getting the support that would be useful at your school. Counselors can really vary in quality and it can be tough finding the right fit.</p>

<p>I hadn’t meant that you use jargon, was just responding to toneranger. Sometimes we have to deal with inconsistency, unfortunately, when we have no control over it. You may wish to go over the paper with the instructor or TA to see how you could have done it better–ask for constructive suggestions on how to meet their standards and requests. It may not change your grade for that particular paper but they may be more careful and generous in your future assignments/papers.</p>

<p>It can be quite different as to the quality & amount of feedback you get in HS vs college, especially in the intro & lower level courses. Hopefully in upper division courses, the feedback will be more consistent and insightful.</p>

10

<p>Welcome to the real world. Teachers don’t get paid to entertain you. Some will, but that’s not what gets/got them tenure. You can do a good job and have it not be recognized. If you don’t learn how to do a good job AND get it recognized, then you’re not doing a good job.</p>

<p>Even in the best of circumstances, grading can be inconsistent. My last year of law school, when I thought I had everything figured out, I got a B+ on an exam in a course I had really liked, and where I knew the material very well. I went to the professor, and asked him what was missing (making clear that I wasn’t disputing the grade). He read the exam over again quickly, muttering things like “No, that’s there. You handled that.” Finally, he looked up and said, “Damn if I know why this wasn’t at least an A- exam. I must have read it right after I read X’s exam, and his was so clear and complete it made the next few seem worse.”</p>

<p>When you leave academia, you don’t even get to do that. Either your writing works, or it doesn’t. You try to learn to make it work. Your TAs may be shirking their responsibility to read your papers carefully, but outside the classroom no one has a responsibility to read past your first sentence if it hasn’t convinced them to keep going.</p>

<p>You probably could benefit from counselling, but let me suggest a few other things, in opposite directions: First, work on being satisfied by learning to your own standards, not someone else’s. Grades matter, but you are in college to get an education, not grades. Decide what you want to learn, make sure you have learned it, and forget about the grades or other people’s praise. (I think the grades will follow, though.) </p>

<p>Second, as others have suggested, engage A LOT more with your teachers and TAs. Their classroom style may not be scintillating, but I guarantee that they are not boring people with boring interests. It’s your responsibility, though, not theirs, to figure out how to extract what they have to offer. Try to get work as a research assistant, even unpaid, to get into the flow of real scholarship. Go to department events. Chat people up. YOU be entertaining to them, and trade that for some access and knowledge. Build relationships, because ultimately that’s what’s going to get you to the next level, both in terms of deepening your educational experience, and for launching the next phase of your career.</p>

<p>And, please, drop the snottiness about your state university. You aren’t better than it is.</p>

11

<p>I guess I feel like since I’m paying 5,000/yr to go here (and soon 20,000 a year if I loose my scholarship), I shouldn’t be the one trying to entertain them. I was never the type that looked for a teacher to be “cool” or “witty,” but if all they can do is give me a lecture I could have read in a textbook (or, in one or two cases, something far, far worse…oh, have I had a couple profs who were COMPLETELY senile…), why am I going to class? I understand college is just as much about the experience outside of class as in…but again…just as much about the experience outside of class as IN. In one of my history classes, on the first day of class the prof says, “I’m really just here to give you the background info, talk to your TA about the intricacies, etc.” It’s like, you’re the one with a PhD!! Not the TA!! YOU’RE what I’m paying for. It’s just there are so many cases like that here…it makes me resent them, cause jeez, even for me (and I’m lucky) college is expensive.</p>

<p>That is true about discussing with the TA and then having them be more careful later. Even in classes where there is only one writing assignment, TAs are usually willing to go over an outline or something similar. Too bad I’m way too last minute for that kinda thing, but that’s something I should work on to tackle the grading problem.</p>

<p>But as far as feeling interested and engaged and challenged, still I feel hopeless. I would love to take an internship or do research my grades just suck at this point :/. My resume is a joke…I just don’t compete with anyone.</p>

<p>And again, boy do I know it that building relationships is where the real success in life lays, not really so much in the quality of your work. Which isn’t meant to sound bitter, after all, relationships I would say are far more important than a few words on a paper. I’m so shy, though :(. Where do I start? Even finding a job in customer service is so difficult…I have applied for tons and I’m just not a people person :(.</p>

12

<p>TAs are near-peers who have figured out how to succeed at stuff you’re not succeeding at. Use them. Respect them. They ARE what you are paying for, whether you like it or not. And it’s no little thing to be part of a community of scholars, and to have some claim on their time and attention – it’s worth a lot of money. (Maybe not quite as much as you are paying, but that’s a general problem.) It’s really, really hard to duplicate outside of academia, so learn how to value it and to get value from it while you are there.</p>

<p>As for your horrible grades: Pay attention! Forget about the grades for the moment. You are obviously intelligent, you are a decent writer (at least), you have things to offer. Sell yourself, wheedle your way in somewhere, and start learning rather than whining about what crappy teachers you have. Teachers generally like to teach, and most people like to engage with interesting people who are paying attention to them. They may be crappy teachers, but they seem to have a crappy student, too, because he’s not figuring out what they have to offer and how to get it.</p>

13

<p>Himom - just kidding about the lawyers…although we all know those who confuse more than clarify.
inaslump: being shy is hard. I know. You have friends so I’m sure you have good interpersonal skills when you’re feeling safe. All I can say is keep working at it. Practice in front of a mirror if you have to. I did.
But… really… I think you need to take things one at a time. Begin reaching out to your teachers. Tell them you’re struggling and you need their help understanding expectations.
And I agree that TAs can be enormously helpful. Treat them with respect - and ask for their help. Try not to put them on the defensive.<br>
You have a break coming up…use it to regroup and figure out how you need to change your behavior, and adapt to your new environment. And keep your chin up. You know you’re better than this…</p>

14

<p>I don’t think you are happy at your university. Can you possibly look into transferring to a significantly smaller state school where you will find smaller groups both academically and socially? I think you will feel a lot better in a smaller school.</p>

15

<p>inaslump - I had the same UG experience as toneranger. Some really smart kids breeze through large state universities. But other really smart people, like you and me, don’t. The worst grades I ever got were “earned” there. Grad school was much easier. Yes the material was harder, but the Profs were engaged.</p>

<p>As I see it, your decision matrix is about as simple as it gets. Accept that you and your environment are mismatched, and learn how to be successful despite this (as JHS and toneranger neatly outlined). Or resolve to find an environment that better suits you, and figure out how to fund the increased costs. Good luck to you.</p>

16

<p>I wonder about the caliber of the high school you attended. I know many students in urban schools who excelled and got along very well with teachers. These same students often got their heads handed to them when they went to college.
In my experience, most smart high school students don’t think their teachers are very smart at all- and they often aren’t. Gone are the days when most of the smartest women and African-Americans went into K-12 teaching.
PS-losing a scholarship of that magnitude is a serious thing. Is that a real possibility?</p>

17

<p>Have you ever been tested for ADHD? My husband had the same type of high school experience you did, had a great small college experience, hit the wall in grad school, and bumbled through law school. He only recently was diagnosed with ADHD (the term for all types whether hyperactive or inattentive) and medication has made a difference. He saw a number of therapists over the years and periodically was given medication for depression, but nothing made a difference. You’ve had a dizzying array of majors, a wide range of grades, a number of therapists, and nothing you are trying is working. Maybe the psychology department of your college has neuropsychologists in training who can test you or make a referral. If it’s not an option or not a possibility, try yoga or meditation to help with focus, perspective, and self understanding.</p>

18

<p>I’d also go & talk with your profs about any extra credit you might be able to do to help bring your grades up so that you can keep your scholarship. You may also want to talk with the scholarship department to see what they suggest for you to be able to keep your scholarship, as they have likely encountered this situation before. Some schools (like my son’s) will give students a probationary period to sort things out & not have them lose their scholarship permanently even if their grades are below expectations for a term or two. Other schools do not have that option.</p>

<p>Being up front with your instructors and the scholarship folks is helpful so you have a good understanding of your options. </p>

<p>I agree that it is helpful trying to get to know your profs and TAs–on a one-to-one basis in their office during office hours is much less intimidating than trying to talk with them during class in front of everyone else. Shy is tough, but you have to push past it–pretend the individual is a favorite aunt, uncle or cousin.</p>

<p>Good luck! You can do this!</p>

19

<p>Try talking to an advisor, your R.A. (if you’re living in a dorm), or even a teacher that you like. Explain how you’re feeling and maybe they will have suggestions.</p>

20

<p>I think there is some confusion as to what exactly my problem is, but it’s definitely not that I don’t know how to do well in a 100/200 level college class or can’t. I know that if I showed up to class and did all my work on time, I would have straight As. But I just can’t bring myself to do either. Sure, I’ve always been kind of lazy, but in HS I could get myself to do things. Here, I’m just totally disinterested in academics. Maybe it’s because I expected classes to be more interesting or challenging, and I feel like they’re a step down from what I’m used to. After graduating HS I felt very dissatisfied with the learning experience and wanted so badly for something more…now I realize how lucky I was to even have 2 or 3 teachers I really loved.</p>

<p>My HS was very challenging; I came into college with 30 AP credits and straight 5s on my exams (would have had around 40, but my laziness prevented me from taking the AP exams for my classes senior year - haha!). </p>

<p>To do well I just really need to feel motivated and interested, and I’m basically dying here for lack of either. I know good grades are crucial for getting cool internships, living away from my parents (I can live on campus if I keep my scholarship), a good job, etc. but even that is just not enough? I don’t know. </p>

<p>As far as losing the scholarship, yeah it’s a big deal…I don’t think it’s quite hit my parents yet…my professors really are not interested in hearing last minute pleas for extra credit (there’s no WAY they would do that…), scholarship or not. However, I can regain my scholarship whenever I bring up my GPA to a 3.2 or above. I’m already on probation from last semester when I failed most of my classes.</p>

<p>I guess the problem is that even though I’m always so gung-ho about next semester - “It’s going to better, I’m going to get As, I’m going to go to class, etc. etc.” things never turn out how I want them to. I had a 3.4 first semester and was upset with it, resolved to do better, failed all my classes the next semester, resolved to do better, got an A in one summer class but failed the other one, resolved to do better, am looking at a 2.6ish for this semester…</p>

<p>It’s like no matter how much I want it, I just don’t do it in the end…and now I’m halfway through my sophomore year with nothing at all to show for it :(.</p>