@deb922 I will go through each of your points and share my thoughts:
an investigation will take over a year. pretty easy to jump to conclusions when:
other teams (11? Big Ten teams) have sold electronic tickets to Stalions.
When he is seen on the CMU sideline scouting an opponent and CMU doesnât clarify it is Jimmy Smith (or someone else)
when he is holding a laminated card with opponentâs signs.
Stalions clearly did things against NCAA rules. Who else is involved?
He is standing next to the OC and DC when they are running the Offense and Defense. (whispering things to them) What other low-level staffer has that power? If they didnât trust his âintelâ, he wouldnât be there.
Due process.
and the season will be played and Michigan will cheat their way to a win.
In the meantime, 13 other teams are disadvantaged because Michigan cheated. Canât turn back the clock. May affect their bowl eligibility or CFP eligibility or record.
Others with allegations and indictments and do the same for Harbaugh.
It is already proven that Harbaugh committed recruiting violations and did not cooperate with the NCAA investigation. That case hasnât been adjudicated yet.
Why is the FBI involved investigating the former OC (who was fired) for âcomputer crimesâ? (Weiss)
This directly impacts the competitiveness on the field.
Competitive advantage?
then why do it?
How did TCU upset them last year when they had a month to change signals?
(A normal program has 20 practice hours/week - not enough time to change signals because one team is cheating).
Show me their record prior to 2020 and since 2020. Recruiting classes are similarly ranked. (just to save you the trouble - 70% vs. 94%).
maybe those players in the NFL look better because they were cheating and knew the signals ahead of time?
How about Michigan tells the other team what plays they are going to run before the play and weâll see how well they do.
I havenât been paying attention to this scandal so I read @Hippobirdyâs linked story and then one linked out of that.
Clearly, more people than Stalions were involved. This reminds me of the Astros sign-stealing scandal. The reason so many people were glad that the Rangers beat them and kept the Astros out of the World Series this year is because almost no sanctions/punishment were doled out to them after they were caught stealing in 2017. Michigan fans should want their house cleaned as this will taint the program forever if those wins arenât vacated, if people donât lose their jobs â if something of consequence doesnât happen.
For background on that scandal, this Frontline was great. I learned a lot, including how players voted on bonuses for key team personnel. Interesting that one of the architects of the sign-stealing scandal was voted a full share that year. Weâre talking about $450k. They knew who scratched their backs. Even if you donât want to watch the whole thing, watch the first three minutes and see the pitcher who got fired after a horrible outing against the cheating Astros. Pretty compelling stuff.
@deb22 I do have many opinions. I also have facts.
And the facts are damning.
Those other coaches with âimproprietyâ - did they directly affect the competitiveness of the game?
You donât have to debate anymore. I saw a thread about college football and since this is a timely issue, I was wondering what punishment others think is appropriate.
edited to add: Wasnât it about a year ago that Harbaugh screamed for the MSU players to be suspended immediately (after the tunnel incident)? (and they were). And at least one of those players was found innocent. So now Michigan coaches and the president are asking for due process? slightly hypocritical? Did they ever apologize to the innocent one?
Why did MSU suspend a player who wasnât one of the ones who assaulted the UM players? Isnât that on them? I mean, weâre talking about a brutal assault here. Thatâs an incident on a whole different level.
Also, yes, Stalions was probably giving his intel to the coaches. But, sign-stealing is not illegal. All teams have sign-stealers. Whatâs against the rules is what Stalions didâscout other teams ahead of the games, rather than picking up the signs during the game. So the question is if the coaches knew that that is HOW he got his information.
They may well have, but there has to be evidence. Thatâs why there is an investigation.
So how does this assistant to Michigan even get on a teams sideline and get credentials? CMU doesnât check who they give credentials to? If that is him?.
College football has voted down headsets. This would solve this issue. Like no one wanted it. Why? Because they all sign steal. You can watch tape prior to get the signs. I will guarantee teams going on recruiting trips look at other players and yes sign steal.
Kirby Smart said it best and he should know being the Georgia coach. âI donât care about it, you still have to play the gamesâ.
Well with many schools and professional sports there have been and will always be cheaters. The ones that get caught do not receive stiff punishments because all the others that cheat would also be held to account. Although SMU getting the death penalty seems to be the exception.
One question I have ⊠who hires the commissioner, a person who could impose sanctions? I ask because one piece of the Astros doc above is how the MLB commissioner gave the players immunity and made a point of clearing the Astrosâ owner. The owners are the ones who hire the commissioner. What a coincidence.
I saw something on Twitter last night that Harbaugh might be suspended today, but who knows if that is credible at all.
Lets be clear. The Astros are not the only MLB team to cheatâ full stop. Most teams, college/prof, walk the line and try to find an advantage. Most will not get caught. It is all about the money. Winning teams make money for everyone⊠schools, coaches, venues, and now college athletes thanks to NIL deals.
@garland. you are correct. sign-stealing is not illegal. in-person scouting is. and electronic transmission of opposing teamâs benches is. That is what Michigan is guilty of.
@Youdon_tsay the doc was really interesting. but I felt so bad for the Toronto pitcher who was lit up and then fired. it made me sad.
I donât believe that Harbaugh didnât know. He lets a low-level staffer directly next to the OC and DC talking to them while their teams are on the field? They trust his intel because⊠âoh, I just have an instinct for thisâ. bull.
The BigTen and the NCAA should act quickly. This is more than paying a player (which is ironically, allowed now due to NIL deals).
Yes, the player getting canned when itâs proven later that the sign-stealing was used most during his game was sad. And why the thinking that everybody does it so whatâs the big deal really rubs me the wrong way. Itâs not a victimless crime.
The school presidents of the Big 10 hire the Big 10 commissioner.
I would guess that the NCAA Board of Governors chooses the NCAA president, who is currently former Mass. Governor Charlie Baker. The board looks to be made up of 9 voting members, not all of whom are directly associated with a university.
That was one of the things mentioned in the documentary. Giving a pass to the players and owner and putting it all on the GM and coach as the fall guys kept the scandal pretty contained. The commissioner has kept his job.
Again, all teams have that guy who IS good at stealing signs. (If you have access, read the article linked.) So if a guy on staff shows he is one, that does not mean they know he used an illegal method. The guy who is good at it WOULD be standing near the coaches.
And again, the investigation is to find evidence that they KNEW his method. You can be absolutely sure you think he did, but thatâs not evidence.
And they may well find it. Thatâs how investigations work.
@garland. fair point that all teams have a guy that steals signs⊠there are a few differences here (and what makes this cheating vs. just good game play)
he purchased tickets to about 30 games that were Michigan future opponents.
=> this is factual based on BigTen teams confirming that they have sold him tickets.
he was on the sideline of a future Michigan opponent the week before UM played them.
=> Iâm not sure if it has been proven that it was CS on CMUâs sideline, but the head coach didnât state it was someone else and since he signed off on the 50 people with sideline passes, he should know.
a DIII coach has gone on the record and listed games (2 Penn State, 1 Rutgers) that he was assigned to cover.
=> assuming his âon the recordâ is actually so.
Certainly, those facts above are inconsistent with NCAA policies.
Maybe CS was good at stealing signs, but how does he have a laminated card that he refers to in the first half of games?
If CS was innocent, why was he fired?
It was Harbaughâs responsibility. That is the NCAA rule.
