I get that teens and young adults wish for some privacy, but before I would consider college for any student, I need to know the SAT scores. These, along with grades, are a good indication of college readiness. This is why the college considers them for admission.
One way to take this out of the family drama is to look at the student’s maturity and academic readiness. Regardless of whether or not the family can afford the college, or the issues between the parents, is it a good use of money and a wise decision to send a student who is not ready emotionally or academically to a college?
As to the idea that the family is saying “loser” by not sending him. Perhaps he will see it this way at first, and also be upset. That is understandable. However, if the SAT/grades are marginal, then he may also get this idea when he goes to college and can’t keep up. It is better to have a chance at success by catching up at a community college ( it may take more than four years if he takes some academic building classes at the CC) or to go to college and start with classes that are over his head?
With a record of difficulty in math, one option to consider is taking the lower level math classes at a CC, even if some contain some review. Math skills build on one another, and he may have missed some along the way.
Even if he gets upset initially, I hope he sees in the long run that the decision his parents make- one way or the other, was what they thought was in his best interest.
Money aside, the whole approach of parents deciding what’s best for an 18 year old rubs me the wrong way. I knew what was best for me at 18. My wife knew what was best for her at 18. My kids knew what was best for them at 18.
Parents are supposed to be supportive, but allow that these young adults will make mistakes. This whole concept of parents DECIDING what is best for an 18 year old is just helicoptering at it’s worst. Where does it end? Parents should have been shepherding students into adulthood with increasing responsibility so that they should be capable of making their own decisions whether right or wrong. In my culture this starts at 13. By the time a child is 18, they own their lives. We support and provide guidance WHEN ASKED.
To me, the money question is totally separate from this fundamental question of allowing adults to be responsible for their actions. It’s a fundamental trust issue.
Some of you think that continuing to control your kids with money is your right. I suppose it is. But it certainly doesn’t give your offspring any confidence that you believe in them and they have every right to resent you for that lack of faith. I certainly would.
It’s like, oh hey, I just got in 3 accidents. Buy me a BMW.
Sure, that kid knows what’s best for him!!
Now, if this kid had a real plan other than “Mom and Dad, buy me this one cause my friends think its cooler” it would be a different story. But he doesn’t.
No where am I reading, “My kid wants to be a teacher (or any goal whatsoever).” Or even, “My kids wants to study.” Nothing like that anywhere in these posts.
The closest we got is “My kid wants to go to this college we can’t afford and he barely qualifies for, and he kind of wants to party.”
IMO, ClassicRockerDad, you’re the worst helicopter parent of all. There’s a time to say, “NO, I’m not funding this.” Time to grow up for real.
Let’s get the facts.
The kid applied with parental blessing and was accepted to University of California at somewhere or CalState at somewhere. His stats were good enough to get in. He gets in. They visit. He’s excited. He has a plan. He makes a decision that he thought was or at least ought to be his. Now Mom comes along and says, we can’t afford that AND you are too immature anyway. Either of both of which may be true, but the combination is devastating. What he hears, is Mom doesn’t trust me and doesn’t think I’m worth investing in. He didn’t see this coming. He may react immaturely but can you blame him? This is a dishonest conversation with an adult child.
THERE ARE TWO DAYS LEFT TO FIX THIS PARENTAL ERROR!
According to the OP, both the H and S are incompetent bufoons. Only the OP is competent. I just don’t believe it. I’m not taking her at her word. I see kids whose parents try to control them long after they should come crying on CC about what to do. I try to help them. Sometimes I can.
This has nothing to do with controlling an 18 year old. It’s about the parent making a wise decision about how to invest their money. It’s also about teaching a real life lesson to an 18 year old. You want something? You need to earn it.
How does an 18 year old earn something they want? The usual way is to get a job to pay for it. When something is beyond what a student can earn, yet still has considerable value, such as a college education, the student must enter a mustually agreed upon contract with the person who pays- in most cases it is the parents. Since the parent is investing money, that parent has a say in what needs to be achieved to earn it.
This can differ from parent to parent, but the bottom line is that whoever pays, has a say in it. I think we have agreed that some parents can be overly intrusive. However, I don’t think it is unreasonable to bring some parental expectations into the agreement: 1) the college needs to be within our means or our means + your loans and earnings. 2) You must demonstrate to us that you are ready academically/maturity wise to have a chance at success in this college : ie, demonsrate the ability to make passing grades in high school in core subjects or that you have taken steps to remediate any academic deficiencies. 3) The student will achieve passing grades in college for the funding to continue.
This is real world. In a sense the student enters a sort of job contract with parents. Would you hire someone who has not demonstrated that he/she has the skills for the job? Would you continue to pay that person for doing a sub par job?
This decision is easier for parents who have kids who are academically ready for college and are able to come up with the means to send them. Some kids are mature and ready at 18, but some are not. For those who are not, maybe there is a better investment in their growth and maturity than going away to college.
This should have been taught long before April of senior year. The problem isn’t the money or the S its the broken relationship OP has with her H and S.
My kids drive used Hondas by the way. They never asked for them.
Some of the saddest outcomes I have seen are when students are not mature enough to go to college, then don’t pass the first year. They return with no more skills than they had when they graduated high school, and then, they have debt to pay off. These students can not get their college transcripts until they pay off their loans. Usually their only option is to attend the local CC while working as well. They are worse off financially than if they started at the CC in the first place.
Sometimes this happens anyway, and there may have been no way to predict this, looking at their academic record. However, a risky high school record can make this more predictable. If it is helicoptering to not allow a student to learn this on their own, then so be it, but be prepared to consider if it is helicoptering to let them move back in with you if they fail, or decide to let them find a place on their own without skills to get a decent job if they bounce back with debt.
CRD, you paid for your college? I think some posters suggested that’s one option. Otherwise, these can become family decisions, as they impact the whole family. As it is, we complain about kids with an entitlement mentality. On some threads, some advocate the kid join the military.
Kids can make their own mistakes without the parents funding it. One thing many of us learned, as parents, is that you never solve a problem by compounding it. If the money isn’t there, his free choices and experiments have to come in other ways.
BTW, someone did fill out FA forms. If, say, they had gotten a full ride, I’d guess the mom could be more amenable to all this free choice/self determination you advocate.
This isn’t an error that is completely fixable in two days. I agree that there are family issues. Deciding either way is taking some risk. On one hand, saying no may send a negative message to the student and impact the parental relationship. On the other hand, one takes the risk of investing a considerable money on an education that at least one parent has reservations about student readiness.
One concern I have is that the student has not disclosed his SAT scores. I agree that students this age need to have considerable autonomy and privacy. However, IMHO a certain level of communication of grades and scores is a reasonable thing to request by a parent who is considering financing a college education.
Senior year is a long time, and a learning process for both parents and students. Just like college acceptance is contingent on students keeping up their grades over the year, parents can have contingencies too. Yes, it is heartbreaking to have this set up- students expect to go and parents change their minds or can not pay. It is far better to have this situation cleared up at the start of senior year. However, parents also have the opportunity to observe their student over senior year and have reservations, which may or may not be due to being overprotective.
This is not an easy, or neatly clean decision either way.
“My kids drive used Hondas by the way. They never asked for them.”
I’m not sure what that really has to do with anything. Sure Op’s son wants to commute with a used Honda 4 to 5 hours a day. But are you saying your kids bought all their own cars, never drove your cars to school or work and somehow that has something to do with the current situation with OP’s son? I would venture most kids use the family car and don’t own their own when they are seniors in high school.
I still think that commuting is not the way to go.
I think he was responding to my BMW comment–and he totally missed the point!!
The BMW is the 80K car this family can’t afford. The used Honda is the community college or some other situation the family can afford. This kid is asking for the BMW (NOT LITERALLY!!!), and he doesn’t even have a good driving record.
I also agree that commuting is not the way to go in this situation.
I also agree this is very late in the game to be freaking out about where he’s going to college or how much it costs. But that’s where they are. The question is, what to do from here.
@ClassicRockerDad Sure he can make his own decisions. But not with his parents money. Not while he is in their house living off their provisions. They are providing everything for him right now. That kid owes them respect and compliance with any reasonable demand. He is NOT ENTITLED TO ANY COLLEGE HE WANTS! Maybe the parents do have a bad relationship with their son. But from what I see, the SON is exacerbating that. Not showing his SAT scores to his mom? Claiming he WILL go to a university that his parents can’t afford and that he would have to commute an unreasonable distance to, all because he “told his friends” he would be going there? He isn’t being respectful or grateful, which he should be. @guiltymom, best wishes in figuring this out.
And if you think that your kid will hate you just because you can’t pay for this university, really, that is their attitude problem. If that will make them hate you and destroy your relationship, I am going to guess that that wasn’t the only thing that caused tension in your relationship over the years. Your son seems to have quite an entitled attitude. I’m blaming you for that at all - I know nothing of your son and yours relationship before this point. I know that an entitled and bitter kid can come from an un-entitled family - I know because it happened in mine. You can’t blame yourself for not being able to give your son everything he desires at any time. The world doesn’t work that way.
So you screwed up with the financial aspects of college for your kid. It happens, life is often a learning process and lots of things don’t go as we would like. (except in CRD’s world lol)
Your kid can’t drive that far, you won’t buy him a car.
You can’t afford to take out the loans for his “school”.
He can accept this and find a more affordable option or get a job. IF he attends Community College and does really well, then maybe see about funding an affordable transfer college for his BS.
If he can’t get over his resentment, then that is on him.
As parents we can only do our best, with what we had to work with at the time.
Explain all this in a calm and matter of fact tone, and then walk away.
I really don’t understand the part about not knowing your son’s SAT Score? Isn’t it part of his high School Records, which should be available online? I know the results of every Standardized Test my Kids did in Middle/High School. I’m sure the Guidance Counselor has access to his SAT Scores and should be able to provide you, the parent, that information if it is not available online through the School District’s Student Record System (I thought All High Schools had this System in place). His SAT Scores and/or his Entrance Exam Test will determine the level of remedial Courses he would be required to enroll in his first year. If his scores on either the SAT or the College Entrance Exam are below certain thresholds, he might not be allowed to take any college credit granting courses until these remedial courses are completed. Getting access to his SAT scores is critical to understanding where he stands academically.
OP, lets assume he goes to the 4-year Institution for the Summer Session and do poorly on the course(s), does he get the opportunity to progress to the Fall Term or he would be denied entrance to the School? I know of a similar program at one of our State University and poor performance in the Summer Program means being denied acceptance to the University. This is one our State University with extremely low 4/6-Year Graduation rates and the State have the University on a short leash, forcing them to increase their 4/6-year rates or lose a % of State Funding.
OP, if your son ends up going the Community College route, wouldn’t he need a car soon? Does he have a Learner’s Permit as of yet? Is there public transportation available to and from the any of the local Community Colleges?
My kids’ high school does not put SAT/ACT scores on their online records. I coukd probably find them out from the GC, though. Not that I need to because my kids don’t keep that info from me.
I believe kids deserve privacy but in high school that does not include their grades and test scores.
The relationship is broken because the OP has confused potentially legitimate money issues with the fact that there is no trust between herself and her son. Even if the money issue is real, the fact that it comes at this late date does nothing but exasperate the trust issue. She doesn’t trust her S. She doesn’t trust her H. She catastrophizes H losing job. She catastrophizes S doing poorly. S doesn’t trust his mother. S has choice of self-respect or parental respect. Self-respect is healthier. He probably feels like a zero right now.
This relationship only gets fixed with a contrite and honest give and take to build mutual trust. Otherwise, she will never regain the trust of her S. If the money really is a non-starter, then a contrite conversation about that too might help. What I suggested in an earlier post (#27 I think) might lead the S to conclude on his own that CC is the better option. At least allow him to risk not be able to finish. But until she trusts him, and gives him a reason to trust her after this April surprise, I don’t think this relationship gets repaired. I’m sorry to say this, but that’s the crux of the situation.
OP came here because her S hates her and she doesn’t know what to do about it.
Contrition is a legitimate way to rebuild the trust. A heavy hand is the worst way.
Maybe ClassicRockerDad has some points, perhaps sit down and talk to your son. Perhaps agree to pay for one year for room and board provided that son gets good grades, this allows him to build some trust with you. If he does poorly, then off to CC.
I’m also pretty shocked about not knowing his SAT score. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that before.
Didn’t you need to log into his CollegeBoard account to pay for the test? If so, just log in again (browsers usually save passwords) and see what the score was. Or call the school and ask. Or, the EAP score from 11th grade CA state testing could give you a good idea of what the SAT score would be.
It looks like the CSU’s “Early Start” program, which I expect is the summer school mentioned, is not a pass/fail thing based on actual remediation. There is a pass/fail participation grade that would be affected by whether he was successful at attending all the class sessions.
Early Start is a ~2-3 week class (~4-6 for math + English) designed to help kids prepare to succeed in college. However, further remedial classes are still required in the first year, and those require a C to pass. So, it is likely that this student will not be taking any math or English classes that “count” toward a major until at least Spring of the freshman year. So, we are talking about at least 5 years of college, not 4.
From http://www20.csueastbay.edu/prospective/after-youre-accepted/early-start/faqs.html:
I still think the CA community colleges are a great value, and that’s especially important when remedial classes are needed.
That all said, about 43% of entering CSU freshman statewide require some remediation (http://asd.calstate.edu/performance/proficiency.shtml), though this varies quite a bit depending on the campus. It ranges from 2.5% needing some remediation at CalPoly SLO to 79% at Cal State Dominguez Hills. So, he may not be out of place at his CSU.
Getting the admit is the least of all this. Who knows why he got in?
“But until she trusts him, and gives him a reason to trust her.…”
What about him giving her a reason to trust him?? Trust is a two way street.
Granted, we only know Mom’s side and some of it is pretty raw, some game playing among them, it seems. But some of this chat reminds me of the old, “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today,” only flipped to read: “You should gladly borrow 20k for college today, if he promises to do well.” If he does, this family still can’t afford the college. If he doesn’t, they’re out 20k.
Look, we agree the money openness should have occurred earlier. And, some other things to build a decent relationship. I don’t get why they are waiting to tell him of this problem. But it’s not as simple as Mom giving in. There’s muck on all sides. And it’s a big dollar amount. (Maybe not to all here, but big and scary to plenty of CC folks.)