<p>"mini, could you tell me a bit more about why you like Earlham?"</p>
<p>First, the Quaker ethos is still very real there, although only about 9% of the student body are Friends. They take the Friendly testimonies of equality, simplicity, community, and justice very, very seriously. This includes everything from professors being called by their first names, to an all-campus convocation every Wednesday to explore related issues together.</p>
<p>Secondly, there are very unique study abroad options, ranging from border studies to an extraordinary program in Africa, which is usually co-led by a professor of biology (who is a birder) and faculty member who teaches weaving. There is heavy emphasis on cross-cultural exploration.</p>
<p>In my limited experience, the degree of personal attention is virtually unequaled anywhere.</p>
<p>My daughter was also in the same position as your son: being a noncompetitive kid in a large public high school. Her school was filled with very assertive high-achievers. My daughter is very smart, but she didn't want to play in that arena. She's much more low-key and not much of a joiner. I did get the sense that she got lost in the shuffle in that huge, bustling place. (She loved it there though.)</p>
<p>Consequently, I tried to interest her in attending a LAC where she would get some personalized attention. After touring several good ones, though, she soon realized she wanted a larger school. She also needed a school with a strong Japanese-language program, which filtered out quite a few colleges (as computer science will do for your son). And she didn't want to be "in the middle of nowhere." </p>
<p>She has just finished her freshman year at the University of Pittsburgh, and she loves it there. Her classes were challenging, and she got a chance to shine. The kids were friendly, and a larger school has so many courses to offer. So my bottom-line advice is to follow your son's lead. He will figure out what's important to him. I second the advice of the poster above who said to look at Carnegie Mellon. It's right next to Pitt in a very nice section of Pittsburgh. CMU has one of the top cs programs in the country, if not the top. The kids are super smart and high achieving, but I don't think the atmosphere is cutthroat. Your son could check it out.</p>
<p>Great responses! Thanks so much! Yes, I originally wanted to know where he might fit in, but it is also helpful to get a stats read. He is already very, very interested in Carnegie Mellon. He is also interested in U of Rochester, but we haven't visited yet--will do this summer. Other schools of interest are Georgia Tech, William & Mary, James Madison.</p>
<p>I am usually a lurker -but thought I would second University of Rochester. M younger d has just finished her sophomore year, as a double major in English and Music-one of her friends was computer science-program is well-regarded, challenging and difficult. Music minor easy to accomplish with opportunity to study with Eastman grad students and take advantage of Eastman performances-many music faculty teach on both campuses. Definitely worth a trip to look! My older d is a Brandeis graduate- I would think computer science would be strong and the music dept is well-regarded -plus student discount tickets to the BSO!</p>
<p>W&M is a wonderful school for the right kid, and if you're in-state, more the better. My daughter loved W&M but was waitlisted, alas, as OOS. I don't know about the computer science there, though. Your son would have to find out.</p>
<p>Oberlin College is more community-oriented than cutthroat competitive. It;s a large LAC (2800 students) with interesting history. Love of learning is abundant there.</p>
<p>I know a student from there who majored in CS, got a Goldwater scholarship as an undergraduate, and went on to grad school in CS. He liked the teaching there (no graduate students between him and the profs). He sought out research internships during the summers at larger universities. This was essential to him getting admitted to grad school in CS.</p>
<p>The music opportunity at Oberlin is great because of the presence of the Oberlin Conservatory. If you're in the college, it's harder to find performing opportunities but the opportunity for classes, informal performances, and non-stop concerts by the Conservatory students is great. </p>
<p>You can major in CS at a LAC and know many other students with other majors and interests. The research opportunities aren't there, but the profs should help you connect for summer research at universities. That's essential.</p>
<p>i think you put way too much pressure on your son.
you talk about him like he's a disappointment.</p>
<p>your son has an amazing gpa, fantastic sat scores, and a good amount of extracurriculars.</p>
<p>'bad extracurriculars' are more along the lines of what i have, i guess. i have a job and one club.</p>
<p>people's lives should not be based around getting into college. your son has done fantastically in high school and you should give him more credit for that. he is a highly competitive student and could easily get into a variety of schools.</p>
<p>the way you speak of him can make a lot of people with worse stats feel kind of stupid. especially the fact that you're freaking out about few extracurriculars he has when he has plenty. you don't need to get into harvard to be successful in life. and i guarantee you he'll get into a very competitive school.</p>
<p>My son is very similar and I don't think the word "uncompetitive" is quite right. These guys are introverts. </p>
<p>His scores are almost identical to DS's scores. I think you will be surprised at how "competitive" he is at the right kind of school.</p>
<p>CS is offered almost everywhere. There are two basic approaches: a math based CS program, which is available at a LOT of LACs, and CS programs affilated with a college of engineering, which is typically at a university. </p>
<p>ANY CS degree is very marketable, so there is no advantage in "shopping" for a "highly ranked" CS degree. That is just stupid--if a kid is willing and able to major in CS they can go to ANY college with the degree and they will manage to find gainful employment upon graduation. </p>
<p>I would sit down with one of those search programs and look for CS programs and see what you find. The lib arts programs that are the descendants of math depts tend to be more focused on programming, where the ones affiliated w/ engineering schools have that as well as hardware, electrical engineering and info architecture branches.</p>
<p>If your son likes the mathy stuff you are in a good place because you can look at schools that do not have the engineering programs. My son is more about hardware and building things so we are looking at CS programs that reside in an engineering school. Frankly that is a lot harder for this type of kid. </p>
<p>IF he is willing to consider CS outside of a college of Engineering I'd be all over liberal arts schools who offer the CS degree. With his grades, stats and interests you could get a lot of attention at schools that are 60% or more female. I will do some googling and if I find anything interesting post it later.</p>
<p>I'd throw Brown into the mix. Yes, it's an Ivy. However, it's about as laid back as you can get. Given the fact you can take as many courses as you want on a S/NC (Satisfactory (meaning C or better)/no credit) basis, nobody is hung up on comparing gpa's. It has a good CS program. </p>
<p>His scores need to be a bit higher to give a good shot, if he's not in any special category. I'm not guaranteeing admission--just saying I think it might be a good fit.</p>
<p>If he wants a sciency/mathy/engineering-ish sort of place, I'd recommend Rose Hulman in Indiana. In most rankings, it comes out slightly ahead of RPI but, perhaps because of location, it's a bit easier to get into.</p>
<p>Computer Science is in the College of Letters and Sciences at UW-Madison, not the engineering school. I do not associate the field with engineering any more than math, physics, et al are. Get your son involved in deciding where he wants to go. Have him do the homework, ie coming up with lists of what he wants/doesn't want in a school. Get the US News and World Reports college issue as a list of colleges that is not an overwhelming book. Make sure it is his college search, not yours. And remember there are many good schools that will suit him, a good fit is a school which interests him.</p>
<p>I would also check out WPI. Small engineering college, very collaborative environment, nice kids. They have a music program, but it's oriented towards students who want to pursue music as an avocation, not professionally.</p>
<p>I noticed that his SAT verbal score is much higher than his SAT math score. Is this a concern for you if he wants to be a CS major? Perhaps his math score does not reflect his math abilities?</p>
<p>Non-competitive could be very different than say - laid back. My oldest was so laid back he was almost prone. He doesn't and didn't have the classic "leadership" drive - however, he is a very good diplomat, friend to all, participates like the OPs son in ECs that interested him, lettered in 2 varsity sports, was often the "study budy" for his smarter friends because my son is a steady Eddie. If people suggested he run for an office he would just say "no thanks, not interested." He's a classic team player and go-to person....and not what I would call non-competitive....just laid back. He drives me nuts sometimes because I am the antithesis of laid back, but I suspect my oldest will do well in the workplace. On paper my son was, well boring as milk toast and so different than me...but when I watched my son speak with admins and other adults he was quiet, thoughtful, engaged...but not what I would call agressive and very different than the son I thought I knew. I understand him much better now. He'll look people in the eye when he talks. I think we just shouldn't confuse the term non-competitive with a kid who can't thrive in an academic environment, or isn't "interesting" or "didn't live up to expectations"...it's more of one of those intangible "fit things". I suspect the OPs son will have a very good sense of where he'll be comfortable when he experiences it during visits. My son from age 5 on would say "I'm not that type of kid" when I would push him. I'd say, why don't you run for student council everyone knows you and like you they will vote for you...his answer...I'm not that type of kid. This type of personality often has a good sense of self, which is a positive and very mature trait in a young person even if they display every immature behavior that drives a parent nuts. There was a book that had the nickname "stealth" for one of these types! Remember he could be realizing his potential in ways that could be entirely different than your perception of what this should mean. One last thing, I used to feel the guidance office ignored but son...Now I just think they knew him maybe better than I in that environment and knew he'd take the competitive classes without a push and arm twist and knew he'd find a college that fit him. Good luck, I'll enjoy following your journey and story.</p>
<p>I'm loving this thread because I have a daughter like this, and I really hate how it seems as though college admissions reward only the loudest and most out-there students, not the quiet people who also are worthwhile.</p>
<p>If you can manage it, volunteer at the high school in the guidance center. That's one way to get your kid known by the counselors AND contribute.</p>
<p>I'm a cheerleader for LAC's and mid-sized universities where the focus is on the undergraduate, and where students are taught directly by faculty with no layer of graduate students in between. I've seen students really flower at them (my D for example). </p>
<p>Look for class size on the statistics about the college and uni, too, with a critical eye. The average size of classes, and how many are larger than 50, are two different kinds of stats. </p>
<p>LAC's that speak of "family feeling", "community of learners" could be just great for someone with your S's personality. I liked Mini's idea of Quaker affiliated colleges where a person is valued as an individual but with an appreciation for the spirit of cooperation and consensus. </p>
<p>I wondered, too, if he's passionate about studying Computer Science or just says it because he knows he likes computers (who doesn;t) and hasn't yet encountered some of the liberal arts majors he'll discover in college. He might find he's really enthused about a different major once he has a larger menu of departments than h.s. offered. He might be someone who shouldn't declare a major too soon in his mind. </p>
<p>Second vote for Earlham and Haverford, btw. And does anyone have a list of all Quaker-founded or affiliated schools in the nation?</p>