Colleges in England

College Search & Selection
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<p>Along with some Universities in the U.S., I've decided I'm going to try applying to two or three in England. Originally I had considered Cambridge, however, I felt my chances were low considering that I wouldn't be able to go for an interview which they place significant importance on. Also, if applying to both Imperial(which seems more realistic of a chance) and Cambridge then the Imperial application deadline is the same as the Cambridge one which wouldn't have given me enough time to put together a decent application. So, now I'm planning on applying to Imperial College London and University College London(both are part of the University of London). I may toss another few on the list since it costs as much to apply to 6 as it does for 2. </p>

<p>Anyway, I just thought it would be nice to have some discussion of colleges in the UK because their significantly different educational methods seem like they could be better for some people than colleges in the United States. One major difference I've come across in my researching of English colleges is that they're significantly more focused in the courses a person takes(at least for science and engineering majors) so that one can go straight to an MSci in Chemistry in 4 years.</p>

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<p>Well the main difference is no minors. Students have to apply to studet a particular subject at univeristy and it's rare to change 'major'. But this is because the UK school system differs greatly from the US one. ('school' here refers to somewhere one attends up to age of 18 by the way. After that it's university/uni/college. If you said "I'm at school" to me I would assume you meant you were under 18) In England, Wales and Northern Ireland (slightly different in Scotland) students take exams at age 16. After that, assuming they pass at least five subjects grade C or above, the students choose to specialise in 3-4 subjects for the next two years. Most choose either all science or all arts. If you choose two of each you may have problems getting into university because they will think you are unfocused. All this means that students are much more specialised by the time they are applying to university. I have heard it's the narrowest post-16 curriculum in the world. Because all the students are stressed out of their minds due to all the exams (over 100 in their school lives) Tony Blar wants to overhaul the entire system. See this article.</p>

<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3750886.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3750886.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The other major difference is that the univeristies couldn't care less about ECs. On the application form (it's the same form for everywhere) there is a box about 3 inches high for a 'personal statment'. Students write why they want to study a particular subject here. then they might add a line at the end saying 'In my spare time I play the violin and enjoy football'. That is as much as they want to know.</p>

<p>Another thing is it's ok to get a C. That's the average grade at 'high school'. A student with all C's would not be considered a poor student. it's pretty much impossible to ever get 100% in any exam. Maybe some maths students do. A first, the highest degree class at university, is usually given to students who get 70%. the chances of anyone getting more than 80% are very low. That's just the way the exams are designed. I don't know if it's just the kids on this board but it seems to me that everyone in the US can get an A and if they don't it's a failure.</p>

<p>You know Imperial is a science college right? Like Caltech or MIT. Only apply there is you are very focused on science. You won't be able to switch to an arts subject, or even study one part time. It's science only.</p>

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<p>I forgot to suggest this site</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.thestudentroom.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>for your enquiries</p>

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<p>I think it's harder for US students to enter straight onto science degrees here in the UK, because of the depth of our final year high school subjects. (One of the reasons why we usually complete our degrees in 3 years rather than 4 is because in our final year of school we study what is studied in the first year of college in the US.) </p>

<p>This isn't so much of a problem with arts and humanities, where the emphasis is more on interpretation, but in the sciences there will be certain concepts that you MUST understand and be able to apply before coming to uni, which may not be covered in high school. So you may want to email the head of whatever department you're interested in and ask what concepts are essential before you apply. </p>

<p>I completely agree with Cupcake about the whole not-getting-As thing. I'm at Oxford, and I don't know ANYONE who has ever achieved 100% in a test, apart from a few genius mathematicians! So basically, what I'm trying to say is, if you do end up coming to the UK, don't worry if you're not getting the high grades you did in high school, because anything over 70% is practically unheard of!</p>

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<p>I'm at Oxford too!</p>

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<p>Haha! What college? What are you studying?</p>

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<p>cupcake what were your stats?</p>

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<p>Yes, I am aware that Imperial is a Science/Tech college although from my understanding they have something of a business school. I'm going to major in chemistry though. </p>

<p>I'm also aware that incoming students to colleges in the UK have more in depth and focused studies in their final couple of years of highschool. Fortunately, I've taken a fairly uncommon educational path by enrolling in a special program at Clarkson University by which my final year of highschool is spent at Clarkson taking all colleges courses with regular freshman students(only real difference is that students in the program get nicer dorms than freshman and don't yet have highschool diplomas). So I'll have two college chemistry courses, two college physics courses, and two college calculus courses completed by the time I'd be enrolling anywhere in England.</p>

<p>Is anyone familiar with how much significance is attached to the letter of reference and how much benefit there is in getting the application in early? I ask this because I could wait until after this semester ends to send the application so that I could have the application include my grades for this semester(almost certainly all A's in Chem, Physics, Calc) and have the reference from my chemistry professor here. This would result in the application being in around mid-December. If I just get a reference from my chemistry teacher from highschool and have my science and math grades from highschool on the application I'd have somewhat less impressive grades but the application would be in early November. My understanding is that with British applications, the sooner before the deadline the better the chances.</p>

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<p>Yes, it is best to have the app in as soon as possible. For some universities in the UK (notably Ox and Cam), it doesn't matter when you send the app in as long as it's before the deadline, because they interview everyone anyway, and only make the decisions when they have all the info. </p>

<p>As most universities DON'T interview (although I think Imperial might for some subjects: I have a friend studying Chem/Management there who was interviewed, though as an international student, I doubt you will be), it is in your best interests to apply as soon as possible, as they work on what is effectively a rolling basis. When I was applying a couple of years ago, I sent in the form at the beginning of October and had the first reply within a couple of weeks. Here's a link that will give you all the dates:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ucas.com/getting/deadlines/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ucas.com/getting/deadlines/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Weigh up the odds: Chem is not a particularly popular subject in the UK, so you will in all likelihood get accepted SOMEWHERE, even with less-than-perfect grades. You have an advantage in being an international student too: ummmm.... you're aware that you pay ALOT more than EU students, right? Frankly, UK unis are pretty cash-strapped right now - they will welcome the fact that you are willing to pay higher fees.</p>

<p>About the reference letter: well, in alot of cases, particularly for applicants to the 'Golden 5' (Oxbridge, UCL, LSE and Imperial), the ref says pretty much the same thing for every student, e.g. 'John is a resourceful and dedicated student blah blah blah.' They can't really tell much about you from the ref unless you are a certified genius or something and your prof mentions it. That's why they interview. I'm pretty sure that unless your ref makes you sound either amazingly brilliant or amazingly horrible, it's just one piece of information in a whole collection, and won't make or break you. :)</p>

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<p>it's really hard for americans to gain entrance to english/uk universities, but becuase of your adv. science path, you have a good chance. It's really difficult if you don't have A or O levels or IB. So, yea I gave up on finding a university that wouldn't make it impossible for the american student</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
So, now I'm planning on applying to Imperial College London and University College London(both are part of the University of London). I may toss another few on the list since it costs as much to apply to 6 as it does for 2.

[/QUOTE]

Im not too sure of the usual admissions procedure for Imperial but UCL also interview all applicants usually so that could also be a problem for you.

[QUOTE]
One major difference I've come across in my researching of English colleges is that they're significantly more focused in the courses a person takes(at least for science and engineering majors) so that one can go straight to an MSci in Chemistry in 4 years.

[/QUOTE]

The MSci (Master in Science) is an advanced undergrad degree, usually involving a year of industrial placement - do NOT confuse this with an MSc (Master of Science) which is postgraduate.</p>

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<p>Seems like alot of fellow Oxonians here.....</p>

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<p>Nitric63 - I'm still working on D's uni, but she wants America from Britain, the opposite of your situation. In trying to figure out the British system, I was told to use the Times ratings (Sunday Times University Guide, published yearly in Sept) and it evaluates and rates by COURSE, not by school. Thus, chemistry courses rated excellent in England are: Bristol, Cambridge, Durham, Hull, Leeds, Leicester, Imperial, Manchester, Nottingham Trent, Open(!), Oxford, and Southhampton. </p>

<p>For my D's subject, chemical engineering, there are only Cambridge, Imperial, Loughborough and Umist rated excellent. There are also many ratings for different aspects of uni, such as teaching, best starting salaries and graduate jobs, cheapest, most research. It's a most useful supplement which this year was published on September 12th.</p>

<p>My understanding of the reference letter is that it mentions your performance in the subjects relevant to the course you are applying for, but I would suggest that you get your professors to predict your grades, if they will. They are very familiar with predicted grades here, as that is all they used to have to go by after GCSE's, and even now with AS levels, grades for A level are predicted on the recommendation letters.</p>

<p>Regarding interviews, I think they are becoming more common. D applied to some schools where 5 AS level As and 5 predicted As at Alevel used to get you an offer without an interview, but not now. The world class unis have always made the interview a big part of the process. </p>

<p>If I have any of this wrong, could you Oxonians out there correct me, please? </p>

<p>One last thought: does Clarkson do anything in England, study abroad programs, exchanges, anything? They might be able to advise you</p>

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<p>I myself have been using the Guardian University Guide for deciding where in England to apply. It also has ratings in individual subjects with Imperial coming in second(Cambridge is oddly missing which I assume is because it is difficult to compare its natural science studies to individual science subjects offered by other UK institutions). As a result Imperial would be more accurately considered third in England by the Guardian's standards.</p>

<p>Thank you all for your advice. It has been most helpful.</p>

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<p>The Guardian tables are distinctly second best to the original university rankings found in the Times - who do not have any socialist/left wing chip on the shoulder which affects how Universities are ranked. You will find universities in the Guardian rankings who are grossly overrated as a result of criteria which have no bearing on any aspect of the quality of the university, its courses or the prospects of its graduates. The best rankings found in any newspapers in the UK are the Sunday Times which are the most comprehensively researched and detailed; The ST guide can be found here - <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,8405,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,8405,00.html&lt;/a> they also cover the Irish universities which may interest you.</p>

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<p>usmominuk: You're right that interviews are becoming more common at the top universities, however, if a student really CANNOT attend (e.g. can't afford the plane flights, can't take time off school etc.), I think it would be worth investigating the possibility of a telephone interview, so even if it doesn't go well, the student has at least used their initiative and shown dedication to course and the university!</p>

<p>Re: the league tables. I don't have much faith in them (well, they don't put Oxford first, for a start ;) ), because some universities may not be fantastic overall, but may have one or two outstanding course (e.g. University of Wales Bangor, which is one of te best places to study marine biology, oceanography etc, but is not that great as an overall institution). </p>

<p>Anyway, the Telegraph produces a league table that is an amalgamation of several other rankings, and so may be helpful to you:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/main.jhtml?xml=%2Feducation%2F2003%2F06%2F27%2Ftefuni.xml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/main.jhtml?xml=%2Feducation%2F2003%2F06%2F27%2Ftefuni.xml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>It can't be that hard for US students to get in because there is a whole state-full of Americans here at Oxford! The vast majority of undergraduates appear to be hear for one year only as part of US colleges' year abroad programme. Undergrads who are hear for the whole 3 years have often completed a year at a US college before coming here, in order to become more specialised in their subject. I'm a graduate student and among the grads UK students are getting to be a rareity. It's at least 70% foreign students.</p>

<p>Nitric63 - I agree with what the others are saying. Just apply ASAP and ask your teachers to give you predicted grades. That is normal for UK students. They don't get their final A-level grades till next August. Consider some universities outside of London. London is insanely expensive and totally unrepresetative of the rest of the UK. Most visitors to this country never go out of London and in my opinion that's the worst part! If you would like to be in a big city try Birmingham, Manchester or Newcastle. Two univeristies in Manchester recently merged to become the biggest university in the country. One of them was UMIST which was also a tech college like Imperial.</p>

<p>Essentially employers view univerisities as the oldest are the best. Generally the 'new' universities which morphed into being around 1992 or later (most of them were called polytechnic colleges before that and had been around for decades really. my dad attended the place that is now called 'Sheffield Halam' in the 1970s) are ranked the lowest. But like Laylah said, they often have specialities at which they are outstanding.</p>

<p>Some universities conduct telephone interviews with overseas students. I know someone here who is from Hawaii and she had a phone interview.</p>

<p>My stats?? Nothing special. The Oxbridge average. 5As at A-level, a sprinkling of GCSEs. My first degree was natural sciences at Cambridge.</p>

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<p>I forgot to add that the main advantage of going to a UK university is getting a single room. Good chance of your own bathroom as well. Twin rooms are almost unheard of. </p>

<p>Occasionally some universities make too many offers of places based on predicted grades end up with too many students. In these cases I have heard of students having to share a room but most refuse and move out to rent privately. Maybe we just like our personal space more over here? I would certainly never share a room with a stranger. I was horrified to find out that was the norm in the US. No way!</p>

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<p>I have decided to put some other universities down on the application since it costs no more to apply to six than to two. I probably would not just end up spending my time only in London. I have relatives and a few other people I know who live in England and as a result likely will end up at least visiting them. </p>

<p>The room situation does sound quite nice there. Here at Clarkson the freshman dorms aren't very large for one person let alone the two that they fit in each room. They don't even have bathrooms for the rooms. There's actually just public bathrooms with several shower stalls. Fortunately students in the special program get a different dorm building with larger rooms and a bathroom for each suite(which holds two people per room so 4 per bathroom).</p>

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<p>i'm applying to colleges in england (king's college/queen mary/edinburgh/royal holloway) to study english/english&history</p>