<p>Yes, my D's a freshman. And thank you thank you thank you for not saying it's a learning experieince. Everyone has been saying their child also didn't get into a needed class, but this is EVERY needed class.</p>
<p>Hazmat-
I was assuming that Mary was telling us several things-- either core required courses were full, or lower level classes, needed as requirements to get into the next level class, were also full. Either way, it doesn't seem reasonable to me that her kid should be unable to get anything other than electives. That could really screw up a schedule, especially if some classes are only offered once a yr and are needed for a sequence of courses. I could possibly see this happening to a freshman (hence my question) but it shouldnt happen to an upperclassman. Either way, it sounds unreasonable. Lets give her a chance to explain....</p>
<p>THis school is on the trimester system and so only 3 classes are taken per semester. Even the electives were full. Even her language. She had to finally call the registrar in frustration to see what classes were actually still open. It wasn't pretty. And yes two of these classes are only offered in the fall.</p>
<p>I would be very angry if I were you or your daughter. Has she spoken with other students.....is she alone in this or is it common practice? What a bad beginning. I cannot imagine how cheated you must feel after paying the tuition.</p>
<p>I can't tell you how great this is having people empathize! Even though her situation is the same, I feel much better!!</p>
<p>The school had too many kids accept their acceptance and I'm assuming that is where the trouble lies. I'm giving it a bit of time and hoping she can work it out and then feel confident in her abilities at the same time. On the other hand....it's tons of $ and ticks me off.</p>
<p>I responded to PM by PM (cute, huh),but I thought a point was worth mentioning here. A lot of movement occurs in classes during drop-add week. Thre is a good chance that things can work out without a parent having to jump in. Plus, in smaller school, it is sometimes easier to talk your way into a class (I was able to do so when I was an undergrad). So, it maay be a bit premature to consider lifting the phone receiver just yet....</p>
<p>Proudmary--How is your daughter doing with this situation? I can't imagine being a freshman and having to deal with something like this right off the bat, and it's not even one of those huge state schools (where you might expect something like that) . . .</p>
<p>PM, if the problem is that the school is overenrolled, they will probably hire more faculty and open up more sections - so that is the type of problem that will be resolved. My son's college had that issue his first semester -- plus they had very strict limitations on class size, and the school was dead set on keeping its low faculty/student ratio ... so basically, new people got hired. I think the main thing your daughter needs to do is to make sure that her situation is well known to the people who run things as far as class registration, and to whoever the appropriate dean or advisor is for her. </p>
<p>I think this still is the type of situation that does not call for parental intervention. In the first place, what do you think you will accomplish? Other than taking up the time of some overburdened staff member who spends all day long listening to people complain of the same problem. They very likely are doing their best to try to resolve the issue, and a phone call from an irate parent is not going to make any difference. In fact - it is possible that you might make things worse.</p>
<p>Not everyone who calls a school will come across as an irate parent. Many people have effective problem-solving skills. It is equally possible that PM will be polite, understanding, reasonable, but persistent. And too bad if an administrator or staff member is overburdened. Not taking a phonecall from a paying customer because they are "too busy" isn't acceptable in my book. They have a job to do, and providing customer service is one of them. If I were payng $40k for the priviledge of attending a small school, I wouldnt appreciate being taught by a last minute hiree, possibly a local adjunct faculty person who may not even be a fulltime faculty member (just an assumption, but possible in last minute situations like this) with possibly little or no experience at the school, teaching me all my required classes. It is easier to blow off a young, inexperienced freshman than a parent, and if this young lady is given the short shrift, some assistance from her mother is perfectly reasonable.. especially since she sounds like she may be asking for it.</p>
<p>I've thought a bit more about this-- and the more I do, the more I hope that this young lady will have success in getting some of the necessary classes by going to her advisor, or even the Dean of Academic Affairs or Dean of Students. It is a small school-- these people should be approachable. If all else fails, then I do think a polite conversation from the parent is totally within reason. No one is saying that PM should come across like an arrogant, abrasive bulldozer. That doesn't get anyone very far. But if this young lady plans to major in something like Neuroscience, with a lot of required classes that must be taken in sequence, and if there are school core course requirements as well, then filling first semester freshman yr with classes like intro to basketweaving and yoga is just unreasonable (being tongue-in-cheek, but you get my drift). If a school is so rigid that it won't let a student into a necessary class because they worry about their precious faculty-student ratio (and probably their US News rankings) then they are missing the important issues of what a quality education at a small elite school is all about. This student is in a particularly unreasonable situation- being closed out of everything necessary. They should be working diligently with her to remedy this, and help her to get at least a few of her required classes. I hope to hear back from proudmary that her dau has had some success. And mary, if she gets stonewalled, I would fully support your coming to the aid of your daughter.</p>
<p>I second jym's comments. This is really unacceptable; they may have been over-accepted, but that was in May; they really needed to have resolved it. The fourth tier college I work at is having the same problem, but we charge less than half the tuition, and we're opening new sections on an hourly basis--no one is being told they can't take what they are required to take.</p>
<p>A suggestion, Proud Mary: when my D was a senior at an elite LAC, she ran into a similar problem of being shut out of almost all major classes. This is a senior, mind you, who needed them to graduate. She went to her advisor, her class dean, and th head of the dept. The best they could suggest was lower level classes outside her area of interest, when she'd already taken more advanced classes in the same area. Obviously a waste of time. Instead, she haunted the class she really wanted. Showed up every day, spoke to the prof, did the first assignment, participated in class, wrote letters to the prof, even volunteered to bring a chair every day if there weren't enough. Ultimately, in most schools, the prof can override the cap if they want to.</p>
<p>She got in.</p>
<p>So your D could try that, though as a senior, my D had way more experience and confidence than she would have had as a freshman. If all else fails, I don't believe a polite phone call is out of line, nor do I think it can do damage. People who work in colleges are generally not that vindictive; if they are, you have worse problems than this.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your D.</p>
<p>garland-
Your daughter sounds like a real go-getter. But I agree with you-- that's easier to do when you are a senior major in that dept and probably know these professors. And it sounds like it was no easy task to get in.
I am hoping that proudmary doesnt have the kind of experience that Amith had last year with administrators who closed theeir eyes and ears to real problems (see earlier posts on this thread). The colleges need to be mindful that they dont get too caught up in their own elitist attitude. Bad, bad business.</p>
<p>Garland, The way your D handled the situation was wonderful, but I do not think that most freshman would be able to nose their way into a class this way. Most do not understand the college culture yet, do not know professors, and are probably more easily intimidated. Their parents are still paying for a product, and student needs to receive that product. I am glad the school that you work at is not closing out students, but providing what was paid for.</p>
<p>NEM Absolutely. When D had a registration disaster her frosh year (different school), at a summer orientation we both attended, I definitely stepped in to accompany her and help present the problem and get a solution. She would have been daunted to handle it by herself, and would have gone with a ridiculous schedule. </p>
<p>Despite my help then, or maybe because of it, she became the student who could do what she did as a senior.</p>
<p>Oooh, that story, Garland, brings back a horrible memory from the past. My first week in college, my car was wrecked (one of the few accidents I've had that wasn't my fault), and I got royally scr**ed over by the chairman of the biology department trying to arrange my schedule for freshman fall. Back in those days when add/drop was 25 cents per hour, it cost me $25 to repair my schedule! I ended up with a class at 7:30 AM and another one at 6pm - but I learned, I never made the mistake of letting someone else recommend classes to replace a filled class again. What I would have given to have anyone, a parent, a friend, read over those cards in the gym before I turned them in.</p>
<p>I find the recent spate of schedulling horror stories interesting. I attended Ohio State and never had a single problem because I took my advisor's advice-never,ever turn you schedule card in later than the first day morning of registration. I always showed up at the Registrar by 9am that first day and bingo, first choice every time!!! I tell my advisees that I will not meet with them after the first day of registration for that reason.</p>
<p>The only mistake I made was scheduling an 8am class first term. I didn't understand the difficulty of getting up in time.</p>
<p>I have passed on my advisor's advice to my son and he is batting 1.000 through 3 semesters, choosing to attend the first summer orientation session frosh year. He even slogged thru the rain the first evening to get to a computer in the Vooheess Computer Center to check alternative course/section options on <a href="http://www.ratemyprofessors.com%5B/url%5D">www.ratemyprofessors.com</a>.</p>
<p>Which is another tip. That web site seems quite helpful as is recommendations from upperclass students about profs to search out and those to avoid.</p>
<p>Last tip that I have passed on to him. Before registration for second term classes get a college catalogue and work out a tenative 4 year schedule which incorporates all graduation requirements and considers electives offered only one a year or once every two years. I do that with all my advisees and it has helped them enormously.</p>
<p>Yes my peeps, in the scheduling game the early bird does indeed get the worm.</p>
<p>Many schools have all that you are mentioning.....a 4 year plan, options for other sections....all online. The registration period is long and the "crank" date is when all the data is run through and posted. I don't quite understand your early bird theory in these circumstances.....</p>
<p>Hazmat, you may be correct but not in many cases. Back in the day the seats were offered "first come-first served" as it was at Cornell where I attended grad school, and the university where I have taught for oh so many years.</p>
<p>At Rensselaer where my son attends, scheduling is done on line and seats are assigned instantaneously. One thing they do is to stagger registration dates so seniors get first choice, juniors second choice, sophs third and frosh last choice.</p>
<p>Where the college catalogues fall short is in the area of electives. Instead of listing specific courses they mention only free electives, technical electives, GEC electives, etc. It is important for students to begin thinking about specific electives they may want to take early on.</p>
<p>Originaloog: both my kids were/are assigned registration slots. There is no early bird option. That's fine advice where there is (true at the school I work at, and I advise my advisees to see me early), but immaterial at many other colleges.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info but I guess I would have wanted to know ahead of time how registration worked at the school I was applying to. I guess rewarding the early bird is okay I have no problem with that but it seems such a waste of computer software.....I mean programming can handle most of the issues that early bird offers. I am soooo glad that I don't need to deal with this kind of system.</p>