<p>bars are suppose to card EVERYONE before the serve a drink. </p>
<p>and what happened to the "midshipmen will not lie steal or cheat"?</p>
<p>yes but who isn't going to serve someone who is getting ready to serve the country? people want to thank you for what you are doing even if you are just a mid.</p>
<p>They are not thanking them by putting them at risk with their school and their personal safety. </p>
<p>And again, what happened to a midshipmen will not lie, steal or cheat? Isn't it lying by omission when you are served a drink under the pretense that you are 21? Isn't it breaking the law by doing so? </p>
<p>I don't want to sound like I am on my high horse, but we need young men and women that do not break the law, irregardless of what they think of the law. We need young men and women that are truthful to who they are irregardless of the inconvenience to themselves. </p>
<p>This is not coming from a prude that tea totals. Nor a person that necessarily agrees that the law needs to be set at 21. </p>
<p>But I do not agree with people serving people underage so long as the law states otherwise. And I do not agree with young people preparing to serve our country not capable of abiding by the laws within it.</p>
<p>It is either irrespective or regardless but not irregardless.</p>
<p>By combining the negative ir– prefix and –less suffix in a single term you have created a double negative in the same word.</p>
<p>Just a pet peave of mine. :)</p>
<p>whatever, I am pretty darn tired for a grammar lesson, I think I will head up to my pillow.</p>
<p>a lot of the people though know we are not 21 whether you are a plebe, 3rd class or maybe even 2nd class. when i've gone home my best friends parents have offered me alcohol and they know that i am not 21. you get treated like an adult when you put on that uniform no matter what age you are. people dont card you because they don't care they want to give you it to thank you.</p>
<p>The point is... if you're not 21 don't drink unless you are in a country where you can drink at a younger age. And if you are a an upperclassman, don't mess with Plebe girls. </p>
<p>Its all pretty simple.</p>
<p>So I suppose putting a uniform on makes one above the law? That is the very attitude about putting on a uniform that concerns so many people. </p>
<p>Putting on a uniform means you are even more accountable to upholding the laws of our country than otherwise. </p>
<p>Yes it is pretty simple.</p>
<p>jaz-
thanks :)
i def will let him rest, i need it too. school has been soooo busy. im so glad its Friday!</p>
<p>"Midshipmen and cadets remain stronger and more aggressive than their male counterparts at civilian schools. They eagerly play sports such as rugby, boxing, karate, lacrosse, and fieldball. They drive fast cars, usually sports cars. They play hard. They drink hard. They are physical, often abusive among each other. They are not trying to prove their manhood: they are celebrating their masculinity. They are competitive, often vulgar, and tough, and every citizen who may someday send a friend or relative into war should rejoice, because combat is competitive, vulgar, and tough, and they will be leading men in combat."
-- James Webb (Former Sec. of the Navy)</p>
<p>Whatever, I am not impressed with the quote. I believe in character development and discipline.</p>
<p>When a young man or woman are in uniform the expectation bar has been raised.</p>
<p>
[quote]
James Webb (Former Sec. of the Navy)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Coming from the same man who said Bancroft Hall at USNA was a horny woman's paradise. And definately a man who did not want women at the service academies. </p>
<p>As were dealing with drinking here...... I have a hard time reconciling the fact that at 18 one is smart enough to help decide who will lead this great country, that at 18 one is courageous enough to fight for this country, yet in this country one at 18 is not old enough to know how to handle themselves with alcohol. Yes I know the law is the law so it should be followed, but why the discrepancy.</p>
<p>I know it's an old argument, but why is it not valid? Just my thoughts on the matter.</p>
<p>Yeah give me an M-16 but not a bottle of Bud. We will see what I can do more damage with. Or let me go get shot at and IED'd but for the love of God do no give me a bottle of Bud, I'm underage!</p>
<p>Ma'am, one must be very careful talking on the internet, especially with this forum being the busiest ever. But I will say, of all the 1000's of teens attending college. Your son or daughter earns that bottle on the weekend more then anyother college kid. They don't square corners, are as sleep deprived, and don't put up with as much BS as students at USMMA do. </p>
<p>Anyone who thinks Midshipmen won't break the law, is misled. In my opinion breaking the rules (not all but some) and learning to weasel around is part of the game and is part of that character development. </p>
<p>Remember "work hard, play hard".</p>
<p>Lastly, to anyone who keeps saying "Firsties"....this is not the Naval Academy, they are First Classmen.</p>
<p>It is irrelevant what we believe should or should not be, the bottom line is that our country's laws designate that drinking under 21 is illegal. And it is in incredibly poor form for people serving our country to think they are above our laws just because they wear a uniform or "earned it". </p>
<p>And I am completely concerned by the sense of entitlement of a bottle because of the stress of your academic career. Let me tell you that if you are seeking stress relief at the end of a bottle you are taking the first step towards acohol abuse and addiction. This is the LAST PLACE AND TIME to be taking up alcohol and a completely insane reason to do so.</p>
<p>Character development? Weasaling around the law is part of character development? I think you mis read what I find as character development. And again we are talking about breaking the law. </p>
<p>I thought the midshipmen's code was a code of honor, something like a midshipmen will not lie, steal or cheat? I can not understand whatsoever why anyone would consider it not cheating to weasal around the law. Just think of the implications of the word weasal. And I can not understand whatsoever that anyone with sensibilities can not understand that by taking a drink knowing full well you are under age that you are not misrepresenting who you are which is a lie by omission. </p>
<p>Whatever, I can see that I am out numbered here and find it very distressing that at least some of our young people are seeing a sense of entitlement merely by putting on a uniform for things there country states they are clearly not entitled to, that they are above the laws and that they view drinking as something earned due to the stress in their lives. It is no wonder when I did work at an army medical center there was such a problem with alcoholism on base. </p>
<p>I wish you all well. I think I will chill for a few days.</p>
<p>But before I leave. I will give my opinion on the huge discrepency in allowing some rights of adulthood and responsibilities but not the privelege of drinking.</p>
<p>In the state in which we live the law states that young people are allowed to drink in the privacy of their home with their parents and I feel comfortable saying that Friday evenings in our home our son has enjoyed a glass of wine since he was 16. </p>
<p>We have also travelled to Europe where again it was legal to do so and he enjoyed wine and brew with his parents. </p>
<p>I say this to emphasize that it isn't because I take a tea total philosphy in my life that I disagree with this. </p>
<p>Now one of the very serious reasons our country does not allow our young people to start drinking at 18 has to do very much with the statistics that are gathered on teenage alcohol abuse and driving fatalities. We live in a country in which teenagers start driving before they drink and their novice experience behind the wheel of the car, their sense of invincibility and their excess with the bottle leads to far to many of our dear young people loosing their lives because of this. </p>
<p>My observation from European travel and method of socializing young people into alcohol are as follows. The young people learn to drink well before they learn to drive. Many countries the drinking age is 16 and the driving age is 18. Furthermore, the cost of learning to drive and financing driving is so high that most young people do not get their license until after college. This in itself keeps the young adults in those countries by far safer than in our countries. If we had this system in addition to public transportation to get our young adults to and from safely like in any place in Europe, we too could consider lightening up on this. </p>
<p>The other huge factor is the focus of drinking in other countries and the socializing people into drinking. In European countries on the most part drinking to be drunk is not nearly as emphasized as drinking to augment a meal. Our young people see the focus of drinking much like our young man above, as something to do to relieve stress, it is viewed as a coping mechanism for the stressors of life. This view in the minds of young people set them up for a great vulnerability towards alcohol abuse than a young person brought up in a culture in which wine or beer are seen as a part of a meal.</p>
<p>Well I have exhausted myself on this subject. I am incredibly dissappointed in what I see as a casual and accepting attitude that midshipmen are above the law because of their uniform and that drinking is a right earned due to the stress in their life and their chosen profession. I was told that drinking was a big problem on campus and refused to believe it, now I see that students going to an academy are probably at a higher risk for developing alcoholism than a person going to a civilian university.</p>
<p>I wish you well.</p>
<p>As I recall the age was 18 in the days that most of the people on this forum were in High School and attending college. I am in no way condoning the drinking of alcohol but I believe it is much worse at other civilian colleges then it is at KP. And you have to remember honor code or not we all are human. We make mistakes. As is has been stated when Mids go to the city people do buy them drinks and want to make sure they have a good time. Again its up to the judgement of the mid. No midshipman feels they are above the law. Most don't even feel like they deserve it when people buy them drinks. But bottom line is drinking at KP is probably the equivalent to the amount that is happening at normal college if not much much less.</p>
<p>KP10sMOM: Don't run away, this is good healthy debate. as long as no one starts name calling and the stuff this is the type of stuff that keeps people interested. Even if you are the sole dissenting opinion it is still one that is very valid and important to hear. I know I need to hear the other side because I can't be right all the time (maybe once or twice a year I'm wrong :) ) </p>
<p>I agree with you that there should be no sense of entitlement because one puts on a uniform and no one should be above the law. I think the term 'weasel' was probably not the best choice of words, but I see his argument; however, I don't necessarily agree with it. </p>
<p>I agree with your assesment on European culture and drinking. The one thing I would like to see is if anyone has any links to data about the vehicular accidents/fatality rates from before and after the drinking age change. Although it may be higher we also need to include other confounding factors such as number of vehicles on the road and average miles driven. I would be interested to see the actual correlation and not just what MADD has to say. I would venture to guess there probably was a slight decrease, but maybe i'll work on this. </p>
<p>Re: the army and alcoholism. I'm not sure which field you worked in the medical dept, but was it truly alcoholism or was it alcohol abuse. I would bet of those college age kids who drink almost all fit the category of abuse as they are more likely to binge during a weekend then drink steadily. One must remember that the average age of an army person is around 22 I believe which makes them about the same average age of a college person (seeing as we tend to take 6 years to graduate now). Now comparing the army person to the college person is there much difference? I would bet not much.</p>
<p>Wow, this post is really long now....but I don't think it's a sense of entitlement, I think it is further ingrained in society. College=drinking to alot of people and whether one is at a service academy, in the military, or at a regular college they will drink.</p>
<p>There are LAWS regarding alcohol in the merchant fleet and all you cadets had better understand them. If you don’t your life will get very very difficult. I’m not talking about “restriction” or other such nonsense.. but FIRING and possibility of proceedings by the Coast Guard to revoke your documents and your means of making a living (or in your case the probable disenrollment from KP). That's what happens to grown-ups when they violate the law..</p>
<p>Specifically the laws I referred to above are contained in 33CFR 95.001 thru 95.050. I would check them out before heading off to sea..</p>
<p>And davygravy3, as far as giving you an M-16, I worry more about the Coast Guard giving irresponsible drinkers a license.. I cringe at the thought of how much DAMAGE they might do with that!!!</p>
<p>Uh... Good point DD1. Scary facts.
Welcome back. Just passin' through?</p>
<p>I'll be around for a few weeks before I shove off again..</p>