We are needing to chose between sending our 19 yo son to the state university he wants to go to as a spring-entry freshman this January and having him finish the year (his first) at the local CC, earning his associates degree using AP credits, and transferring as a sophomore (even though it could be junior credit-wise) in the fall.
Our son has always struggled academically and with responsibility. He’s a very bright kid and has tested well but has not yet developed the maturity for motivation and discipline in doing anything that doesn’t interest him. He lacks executive function skills and habits and always has lots of 0’s, procrastinates etc. He failed 2/3 classes at his gap year program last year due to simply not doing the work. He is continuing the same pattern at CC this fall but could pull it together and do okay.
Pros for going in the spring are that he would participate at least a little bit in that freshman experience of living on a freshman hall in the dorms, easing the transition to college. The other major pro is that his social situation while attending CC is non-existent and he is spending all his time in his room on the computer. He has always been socially timid and rather withdrawn. We worry that another semester at home will further entrench this pattern so going in the spring would start to get him out of that as well as allow him to feel more independence and get him away from some stressful things going on in our family.
The pros for waiting would be that he’d have more time to develop better study habits (that we would insist he get help with) and that he’d earn his associates degree, giving him the chance to participate in a program that would reduce his tuition at the university and save $. We would save $19,000 total (10k by going to cc instead of University for the semester and 9k future tuition reduction) through the transfer program if he stayed at CC for the spring and earned a 3.0, and kept that average at the university. Of course, that is an “if” but greater support measures would be put in place to help him have the best chance.
Right now, the $500 non-refundable deposit is due to the University in two days. We are hesitating on paying that when we might not send him, but have come to the conclusion that we are probably not yet ready to close the door on that option and unless we decide otherwise in the next 36 hours we will have to pay it and take the risk. We would make the deposit contingent on him using a tutor for the rest of the school term and maybe even doing some family therapy to figure out why he chooses not to do the work and isn’t motivated to get help with his weaknesses. (He continues to insist he can do it on his own and to push us away even with repeated failures.) When we see how he responds to these measures and how he has done at CC for the rest of the term we will have a better idea of whether to send him or not but any objective feedback or input that I haven’t thought of if any of you have gotten this far would be greatly appreciated! THANK YOU!
Hi, thank you so much for reading, I realize that was a novel. He is taking 5 courses and doing alright (a’s/b’s) at mid-term in 4 of them but that is because there haven’t been many assignments. He hasn’t been working on the long-term projects he’s supposed to hand in at the end at all. He’s failing math because he doesn’t like it and has just simply not done the assignments. So, it’s up in the air at this point-he could buckle down, pull it off and do alright, especially with help, but his habits are not up to what they ideally should be.
If he is struggling with doing assignments and projects now, what indication is there that he will not struggle with that if he lives in the dorm at the university?
I apologize if this sounds harsh but, in your shoes, I wouldn’t be considering any kind of transfer as long as he’s failing classes. It doesn’t sound like the failing grades are because he’s not capable of absorbing the material. If it’s truly just a matter of not doing the work because he doesn’t like a subject then it seems to me that he’s not ready for college. But as a 19 year-old, it seems probable that there’s more to it than that. Until you solve that, he’s going to have a tough time completing, much less succeeding, at most things. If you’re thinking that a change of scenery, or a more social involvement, etc. of the state university is going to suddenly motivate him or make him see the light, I think you may be disappointed.
Therapy/counseling sounds like a good place to start.
Not every kid is a good candidate for the ‘usual’ college experience of full-time studying - either in CC or at a 4 year school. Some people just do better with a combination of work and study so the intensity of the academics doesn’t get too overwhelming - and work provides some validation and social engagement while they develop new skills, build a resume and figure out what they really want to do with their lives. Or if work isn’t an option, then some intensive volunteer engagement - 20+ hours/week - for something he cares about (the ‘semi-gap year’ approach) Consider the possibility of a 6 year plan with a combination of work and study.
What does he want to do? How would he see his life going over the next 4 years if he could structure it the way he wanted to? Where does he hope to come out? With what kind of work/skills?
And yes, counseling sounds like a good idea here. This has to be personally stressful and very tough on your relationships.
Your comments are so appreciated, and are very validating to how I’m thinking too. They don’t feel harsh. I do worry that he will not succeed in the dorm without support so was thinking about arranging a tutor. (This he resists.) The thing that keeps me open to sending him is the need for peer community and the fact that there are some very serious things going on in the extended family that make our household fairly stressful, and being at school would get him out of that environment. But if he crashes and burns that will probably be worse of course.
No, sadly he wasn’t able to find a job this summer though he did try for a while. It’s not something he’s motivated to do on his own (going along with all the other issues) and due to all the family stress we haven’t been able to stand behind him and help him persist in searching. We would want him to get one if he is going to stay for the spring/summer. He thinks being a dishwasher sounds perfect, to give you an idea of what he might be doing.
“What does he want to do? How would he see his life going over the next 4 years if he could structure it the way he wanted to? Where does he hope to come out? With what kind of work/skills?”
He honestly seems incapable yet of really imagining a future for himself. He does not have ambitions except to “be a writer” but he doesn’t really write much on his own time. The one thing that I think he is accurate on in his self-assessment is that he loves to learn, loves thinking deeply and wants to do that at school. Forget all the practical requirements - those bring his head out of the clouds where he likes it to be. This is truly his strength - the learning and thinking, but there isn’t really a practical channel for that that he has found. Oh man, this is both very helpful and the reality of it all is depressing!
What if he finishes the semester, gets a job, and moves out to a small studio of his own? He could continue at CC part-time. You can agree to subsidize that up to a certain point, and then the subsidy stops at a pre-determined time.
Some people need to feel the pressures of life before they can connect the dots on everything their parents have been harping for years.
I know that’s a scary approach, and it sounds like you have done your research - so don’t take me too seriously. But it is something to think about.
Maybe he doesn’t have many “requirements” to be happy in life. As an adult it’s up to him, now, to figure all this out.
I empathize because I have an “executive function issues” kid and I know how stressful that can be. My son is pretty ambitious, though, and sometimes grossly underestimates how much time it takes to do certain things. So he ends up putting himself in a pressure cooker.
Ok, gotcha. This is the type of kid who is really smart, opinionated and enjoys thinking and arguing and debating but does not see the need to plan/prepare/work. That would be super frustrating, but I think it is probably somewhat common for a lot of kids who have not had a big leap of reality.
So what does he say when you guys lay out a plan to cut the cord/sink or swim? Is he full of bravado that he could do it? Or does he seem hesitant and scared to try? You only build the ability to do those things when you are truly allowed to do them. But that is very hard to do! I don’t think you are as alone as you feel right now…I think there are lots of kids full of what they think is the wisdom of the world but who have not put together a solid plan to make it all happen. Hang in there!
If past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, then it sounds like you will be kissing a fair amount of cash goodbye without a great deal of hope coming out productively at the other end if you send him to sleep away college. Without working through effective interventions you also run the risk that he will spiral into depression with the impact of failure. I wonder if, because he won’t try therapy, if he would engage in some type of career exploration activities. Most states have some career exploration agencies. I agree that trying a job and continuing part time at the community college may be the best compromise as he tries to figure out what he wants to do with his life.
I would NOT force him to transfer at this time. Someone who has executive function disorder , and or other LD’s , will NOT do well if he his just thrown into the deep end of the pool- by himself, without support.
I strongly suggest he get a full battery of IQ tests soon to determine nature of his learning disability’s. He is most likely one of those “twice gifted” kids- both highly intelligent AND suffering from some learning impairments that CANNOT be dismissed or just wished away. He sounds like many highly intelligent Aspies, who often have multiple LD’s.
He most likely will need support if / when he transfers to a 4 year college, and MOST colleges will require recent testing to authorize support from the LD office.
NOW is the time to find out what he is up against- LD’s dont go away.
If I were in your shoes, I would not send him to the state university at this point. Saying no today does not mean you are saying no forever. I would require that he seek out both tutoring and career advisement at his community college - the school has those services in place and he should make the most of them. As for his social life, the community college probably has clubs that he can join that would help him meet other students on campus. Volunteering or working would also get him out of the house and meeting people.
It can be really hard when our kids divert from the straight-line path that we imagined for them. Add in other family stress, and it can seem overwhelming. Remember that no one’s life story is written at 19, and that there are many pathways to a successful, fulfilling life. Just because he is a little slow out of the gate doesn’t mean he won’t get there.
I never expected so many generous responses! You are all very insightful and so helpful. In trying to make my posts less wordy I didn’t go into detail, but you all can see his issues anyway. So right about him having low “requirements” in life. A pile of books and his computer and he could probably be happy forever. Yes, he is somewhat “twice gifted” though he has never fit into any particular diagnosis and we were never able to get the schools to give him any services. He had testing due to having childhood epilepsy (gone now) and has a “very superior” verbal IQ with more average math and processing. Adhd, aspergers, NVD, all speculated on but not able to actually be diagnosed and were clouded by wondering if the epilepsy contributed (and still). I think these issues caused some psychological issues and bad patterns along with them (definitely anxiety). We have absolutely tried to help him over the years. It always seemed like the people we found were not able to assess him comprehensively so they could really help, and he is also always full of plans to do better by himself (yes, that unrealistic bravado the first step, right?) and does enough to get by. I do need to cut the cord for sure and I love hearing that encouragement, but I need to do it in a way that takes responsibility for helping him where I have failed in the past, so all of your suggestions are great. I never thought about the option of subsidizing an apartment - what a cool idea. While we probably won’t end up doing that right now, it really opened up a space in my head to think about it that way. The job and career exploration is a definite need, to help him figure himself out in that area. I didn’t know about career exploration services so will look into that too. Thank you all SO much. I feel like you have “seen” who he is more than the experts we’ve taken him to! Still having a hard time adjusting to the idea of deviating from the plan that we have all been looking forward to, but really recognizing that just going on as we have been is not viable.
There are most likely fewer transfers in the spring so your S will be thrown into a situation where he is somewhat of an “odd man out” socially and academically if he transfers in for spring semester. I don’t think it sounds as if he would be able to handle that right now. Waiting until fall will give him additional time to mature.
In the meantime, I agree with getting him tested for possible learning disabilities and for making a plan to get him out into some sort of volunteering/working a few hours a week.
Good luck.
Your son does not sound like he has ADHD.
He’s almost certainly a really smart Aspie, and probably knows it himself. It explains most of his traits and difficulties.
Start reading up on Aspergers- there are lots of good guides available.
His Epilepsy has should not cloud the picture.
Hiding a possible diagnosis/ explanation from him will do him no good. He has to live with HIM for the rest of his life. Testing NOW , preferably at a University, will generate a more accurate diagnolsis than tests run when he was younger.
As In mentioned before, Colleges disability offices may not be willing to offer ANY help to him without a recent diagnosis.
then ask for references for a psychologist who has patients like him and has worked with Aspies a lot so he can get some knowledgeable guidance- social interactions, planning and time management.
He will be alone and miserable at college if he is not ready to better function on his own AND ask for help from others. College profs dont give students a lot of slack- assignments have to be in on time in order to pass class.
Your son sounds like he is very bright but only does well in subjects he enjoys -also sounds disorganized, with executive functioning issues.
Given that, you might want to have him tested for any learning disabilities. Often, students who are twice exceptional - gifted and with a learning disability - get lost in the system since they tend to get by compared to the general population. As a parent though, you see they are not reaching their potential and its extremely frustrating. Before you make any decisions, see if there is something underlying this as opposed to a straightforward issue.
I would definitely get your son tested with a psychologist for learning disabilities and add/adhd. My son who is in high school never did homework and was doing mediocre in school while his iq is off the charts. Add meds have created a new child. He is doing his work and he is doing exceptionally well in school. It made the world of difference. I dragged my feet for years but high school i knew this couldnt continue and now he is happier that he is succeeding. Hes still somewhat lazy but he can focus enough that he doesnt turn exams in with pages empty anymore. He completes the test, doesnt make the stupid errors and is checked in at school rather than in dreamland.
the first step, right?) and does enough to get by. I do need to cut the cord for sure and I love hearing that encouragement, but I need to do it in a way that takes responsibility for helping him where I have failed in the past, so all of your suggestions are great. I never thought about the option of subsidizing an apartment - what a cool idea. While we probably won’t end up doing that right now, it really opened up a space in my head to think about it that way. The job and career exploration is a definite need, to help him figure himself out in that area. I didn’t know about career exploration services so will look into that too. Thank you all SO much. I feel like you have “seen” who he is more than the experts we’ve taken him to! Still having a hard time adjusting to the idea of deviating from the plan that we have all been looking forward to, but really recognizing that just going on as we have been is not viable.