I am considering encouraging my daughter (incoming Freshman currently in M-Sci program) to take Math 115 and Math 116 off campus at Washtenaw Community College or U-M Dearborn. I hear that those classes are weed out classes and are best taken somewhere else. What are the prospects for using the Financial Aid for these classes? Also what are the thoughts on this strategy. Daughter is looking at possibly transferring to CoE or possibly applying to Med School down the line, so she is GPA conscious. Any thoughts?
I didn’t take them so I don’t know how bad they really are but I doubt they’re really that difficult or weederish (I’d call a weeder class one where they’re not trying to teach the material to enforce a particular distribution of grades). But it should be fine to take them at WCC if she wants to. Back in 2009 and 2010 it was only $80 a credit hour there, it’s probably not that much more expensive now. Don’t worry about financial aid.
I don’t think Calc 1 and 2 are that bad, but Calc 3 may be. I often heard students taking Physics at WCC but not Calc 1/2. Nevertheless, it is not that expensive and may save your D some time in scheduling classes in regular semester. Make sure the credits are transferable before registration though. My D is taking the Physics 240 equivalent there this summer and it costs $650, so it is significantly more than what Vlad mentioned above.
It looks like they increased it to $94 a credit so the calc class should be $376 each. Physics is 5 credits plus a $150 lab fee so it should be $620.
It could be the lab fee, but the total is $650 for the Physics class not $620.
Maybe there’s a $30 enrollment fee or something.
It could be. So for both Calc classes, the total should be less than $1000.
Thanks so much for the insight! I will encourage her to take Calc 1 on campus in the Winter (there was a scheduling conflict in the Fall, which was frustrating), but Calc 2 next summer at WCC, along with Physics 1.
Why would a university encourage weeder courses? It seems that it would be antithetical to a university developing knowledgeable students. It makes no practical sense, and I graduated from CoE.
They don’t want too many people graduating from a certain program or with particular ambitions (such as med school) because not all of them will gain employment in the area or will get into med school and they want to keep their numbers (like starting salary or med school admissions) up.
I am not sure if they should be called weeder courses. Basically, some students just have a harder time in certain classes but perform well in others. It is not like in most high schools that one can easily be a straight A student. Obviously, there are still students getting A in all these courses.
Has she taken Calc 1 before? My roommate took calc 1 in high school and took calc 1 at umich. It seemed like a lot of work, but he got similar grades in Calc 1 as he did his other classes. He’s not an engineer or math/sci major either.
I took both of those classes decades ago and they were definitely weed out classes. The curve was set so the majority of the class got a B -/C+. It wasn’t question of whether you could do the work or not. Less than 10% of the class got an a. Those classes are designed to steer kids away from engineering/premed and into the LSA social science majors. It worked for me and all of my friends 
The only one of our group who made it to med school was the one who took Calc 115 and Physics at WCC.
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Billcsho "I am not sure if they should be called weeder courses" I completely agree. Kids who are selected into the COE at Michigan are pre-selected for admittance based on their qualifications to successfully complete the program. They (i.e., Michigan) " want to keep their numbers (like starting salary or med school admissions) up" is non sense. My boy just graduated from COE (Computer Engineering) this spring and will begin grad school this fall (Michigan). Were some of his classes difficult, of course some were, but he got the satisfaction (as did my wife and I) that he received his degree from one of the best engineering programs in the US. Teachers are only good as the students that they teach.
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It is true that there are a lot of low grades given in the science classes. For example, the following was from an e-mail sent to my son (and all students in the class) after a science final: “The average (mean) on the whole exam was 74.56 (out of 100 possible points) or 74.56%.” That is pretty low for a mean, particularly considering it was the type of class a science major would likely take, as opposed to a history major as an elective, for example. Having said that my son did get an A and said that based on some of the questions some students asked, it sounded like they may not have known the material very well.
The mean on the exam is not indicative of the difficulty of the grading. The grading curve is key. If it is a “weeder”, then the grading may be closer to the classical bell curve of 10% A, 20% B, 30% C, 20%D and 10% F; or at least approaching this.
Yes she took Calc 1 just recently as a HS senior. She got a B+ in the course, but of course she would like a higher grade when she takes it at Michigan. Just don’t have time for silly weed out games. Just teach the darned material! Whew…
^ Most classes are more generous than that with median at least B- instead of C (2 subgrades higher). Also, a lot less F than A.
Why do you think this is nonsense? You really don’t think the university wants graduates to have high salaries or good chances of getting into Med School?
@billscho - the curve you describe sounds like the definitive weed out class. Why do you think differently? I think you made an argument earlier that some classes are harder for certain students than others, but that’s not really consistent with the existence of a curve like you describe - especially when many other classes in the school don’t curve.