Computer Science or Computer Info. Sys.?

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>Well, I finally made it through high school with only a week left in school before graduation. </p>

<p>I thought I had my majors planned out in the beginning. Originally i wanted to double major Computer Science and Business, but as my senior year came to a close my Networking/IT teacher recommended that I research C.I.S. because of how good I am when it comes to Cyber Security. ( Placed 1st in District and State in FBLA in Cyber Security Competition ^_^)</p>

<p>I was thinking of a place where I could discuss this with people who had x possibly been in the same situation that i'm in. Then I thought what better place to do this than CC? </p>

<p>So What should I duuuuuuuuu? lol</p>

<p>Thx in advance CC!</p>

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<p>i’m -certainly- not in your place, but i have many friends who are in these fields and i would say that you should def try your hand at the comp. info systems. there are a million and one comsci majors out there, but fewer who understand the complexities of security, something that is ever becoming more of a concern. i wish you luck!!</p>

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<p>I have an undergrad degree in CIS and it provides for great flexibility in careers with the blend of software engineering and business. Cybersecurity is certainly a growing area for a career with a CIS degree.</p>

<p>I also have a CS degree and you can focus on security with a CS degree but the focus is different. It may involve engineering security into a product or in creating security products or doing research work (frequently involving heavy mathematics). An example of a company where this kind of work is done is RSA Security (owned by EMC).</p>

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<p>The CS degree will be harder to obtain, and will give you a much deeper understanding of computers/networks. If you like security then cis is about the worst path you can take. You need lots of Math to work in security and CIS just doesn’t provide it. As well as theory computation, algorithms and lots of networking and operating systems.</p>

<p>If you already know the difference between userspace and kernel space, know what a socket is and can create a algorithm for a NP problem in P, then the CIS may be fine. If you dont know these things, the CIS degree wont teach you them and its what you need.</p>

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<p>The CIS degree will give you the tools to work in security but it won’t provide the theory behind the tools. Those are useful skills though. There are lots of people that know how to use security tools but don’t know how they work.</p>

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<p>I guess I misinterpreted what the Op wanted sorry. I still think a CS degree will give you a upper hand, application is great but if you know the theory behind the application understanding it and advancing is a lot easier. So Il say this</p>

<p>If your sole purpose is to secure networks then CIS is great.
if you want to secure networks(and understand how and why you do) and be able to create the tools you use the CS is the better choice.</p>

<p>You should also look up the Information Assurance program.</p>

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<p>I think that the business interest tilts the decision to CIS for this particular student. An ideal solution would be a BSCS + MCIS if time and money aren’t considerations.</p>

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<p>when you focus solely on Computer Science you restrict yourself to programming aspects only so lets say later on if you decide to go into management you have restricted your options. This is why I picked Computer Information Systems. You have a science degree but less restricted.</p>

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<p>A very large number of CS students go directly into management. I dont see why there would be any limitation. In fact ive had more offers as a project management positions than programming with a cs degree.</p>

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<p>I don’t consider project management as going into management. Project management is just part of software engineering. I would expect a manager to have taken organizational behavior, finance, accounting, marketing and maybe a law course or two.</p>

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<p>CIS students take those?</p>

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<p>I did but that was a long time ago. The OP stated that he was interested in business too so taking these courses as electives or requirements would provide a nice CIS background. Back in the 1980s I wrote accounts payable, accounts receivable, general ledger, payroll, order entry, labor and routing, bills of materials and other financial systems. Having some background with accounting and finance systems was a big plus in understanding what I was writing. I haven’t looked at CIS degree requirements lately but I probably should. It may be that requirements vary widely depending on the type of school.</p>

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<p>I just checked BC’s IS degree and it is taught out of the Carroll School of Management. The core includes:</p>

<h1>1 EC 131 Principles of Economics I-Micro (freshman or sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 EC 132 Principles of Economics II-Macro (freshman or sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 MI 021 Computers in Management (freshman or sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 MA 021 Financial Accounting (sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 MA 022 Managerial Accounting (sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 EC 151 Statistics (freshman)</h1>

<h1>1 MJ 021 Introduction to Law (sophomore or junior)</h1>

<h1>1 MT 235 Math for Management Science (sophomore)</h1>

<h1>1 MB 021 Organizational Behavior (sophomore or junior)</h1>

<h1>1 MD 021 Operations Management (junior)</h1>

<h1>1 MF 021 Basic Finance (junior)</h1>

<h1>1 MK 021 Basic Marketing (junior)</h1>

<h1>1 MD 099 Strategy and Policy (senior)</h1>

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<p>BCEagle91: Is that for real? All those courses are apart of the business requirement at my school and i’m in the College of Business Administration. There is no way those are the requirements for the Info System major. I am a Management Information and Communication Systems (MICS) major and it involves a lot more classes dealing with IT. To me it’s the best of both worlds (business and computer science) because you’re the middle man who knows how to apply IT to businesses.</p>

<p>Here’s my major requirements:
ICBU 2300/2400 - Information Systems (business requirement for all students)</p>

<p>10 classes required
6 requirements:
ICBU 3432 - Database Systems
ICBU 3433 - Object-Based Programming
ICBU 3434 - Telecommunications
ICBU 3441 - Systems Analysis
ICBU 3442 - Systems Design
ICBU 4800 - Information Resources Management</p>

<p>4 electives between:
ICBU 3421 - Accounting Information Systems
ICBU 4410 - Information Systems in a Global Context
ICBU 4432 - Advanced Database Systems
ICBU 4433 - Advanced Programming
ICBU 4449 - Enterprise Integration
ICBU 4500 - Applied Software Development
ICBU 4505 - Electronic Commerce
ICBU 4506 - Knowledge-Based Systems
ICBU 4507 - Project Management
ICBU 4508 - Software Testing and Quality Assurance</p>

<p>Unfortunately, only 1 or 2 of those electives are taught each semester which sucks (and 1 of them is usually Accounting Info Systems).</p>

<p>As for the OP, I would say go for the major that offers the most flexibility in career options. IT right now is a field in which most software jobs can be off-shored. Security is definitely a growing field and important in today’s world. You can’t go wrong with that.</p>

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<p>“All those courses are apart of the business requirement at my school and i’m in the College of Business Administration. There is no way those are the requirements for the Info System major.”</p>

<p>The courses that I posted are in the School of Management Core to answer a specific question as to whether business courses are part of the IS degree. I didn’t post any of the IS concentration courses as I wasn’t asked about that.</p>

<p>I think that IS and CS are both wonderful majors but there are major differences and some may prefer one to another. I have both and it’s made for a fun and interesting set of careers.</p>

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<p>The problem with the CIS is you could be instead learning about something useful compared to taking business classes which are simply reinforcement of common sense.</p>

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<p>“The problem with the CIS is you could be instead learning about something useful compared to taking business classes which are simply reinforcement of common sense.”</p>

<p>One could say the same thing about CS.</p>

<p>And both would be wrong.</p>

<p>I have a friend that has a Phd in Fine Arts. He is a composer, conductor and also works in sound design with his own company. He’s spending a lot of time in Asia these days. You would recognize his music in many well-known movies. There are many that think less of someone with a degree in fine arts but I think that most here would be extremely impressed at what he’s accomplished. Not to mention his financial success.</p>

<p>CIS is a great major. It’s clear that you can’t appreciate it. I’ve already been there and worked for five years in industry so I can appreciate it. I’ve also worked with many in the field. I know a guy with a Phd in English that’s worked in Software Engineering for 30 years and has patents to show for it. I guess you can just pick up CS on the fly too.</p>

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<p>OK, id love for you to tell me how a job that required a CS degree is common sense. I can come up with hundreds of examples of how it is not. I can also come up with hundreds of examples are Business degrees are simply reinforcement of common sense, </p>

<p>Lets take accounting for instance, an entire year long class which I took, was nothing more than common sense, The same practices I used to manage my own finances was simply repeated their. The only thing is I had been using the same practices or formulas for nearly 6 years before I took the class. I never looked up how to formulate a number, it is simply common sense. Which is why Undergrad Business is a joke and why Businesses have no problem hiring non business majors for business jobs, </p>

<p>Now CS on the other hand, if I ask the common guy on the street to create some algorithm for some task which runs in Omega(logn^2) time, I highly doubt many could do it. </p>

<p>Though If I ask somebody on the street to calculate assets or owner equity and you construe to them what you are asking for, the majority of people with a 5th grade math understanding could tell you the formula for these things.</p>

<p>The other part of business is the classes where they teach you how to deal with people, It doesnt take a week of class to know what to do with a employee who is loundering money out of the company.</p>

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<p>“OK, id love for you to tell me how a job that required a CS degree is common sense. I can come up with hundreds of examples of how it is not.”</p>

<p>I work for one of the largest software companies in the world (it may be the largest soon). I’ve worked with lots of software engineers that came in through non-traditional ways and even many without college degrees. Of course we have boatloads with MSCS and Phds but you can make amazing contributions without the sheepskin too.</p>

<p>“I can also come up with hundreds of examples are Business degrees are simply reinforcement of common sense,”</p>

<p>Have you ever written an accounts payable system? Do you have the people skills to interview those from data entry to vice presidents and to figure out what they really want and need despite them not being able to tell you precisely what they need? Have you ever seen new CS graduates writing business software? It isn’t pretty.</p>

<p>“Lets take accounting for instance, an entire year long class which I took, was nothing more than common sense, The same practices I used to manage my own finances was simply repeated their. The only thing is I had been using the same practices or formulas for nearly 6 years before I took the class. I never looked up how to formulate a number, it is simply common sense. Which is why Undergrad Business is a joke and why Businesses have no problem hiring non business majors for business jobs,”</p>

<p>How many people have you interviewed and hired?</p>

<p>“Now CS on the other hand, if I ask the common guy on the street to create some algorithm for some task which runs in Omega(logn^2) time, I highly doubt many could do it.”</p>

<p>We’re not talking about the average person on the street. In general, the typical engineer doesn’t need to understand time complexity thanks to the wonderful engineers at Intel. But at large software firms, you do have those that can explain foundations or other difficult areas if an engineer needs to come up to speed in something that he is unfamiliar with.</p>

<p>“Though If I ask somebody on the street to calculate assets or owner equity and you construe to them what you are asking for, the majority of people with a 5th grade math understanding could tell you the formula for these things.”</p>

<p>Most people that I run into don’t have the ability to calculate the NPV of an investment with variable annual rates of return. If you are that good at valuing assets, are you independently wealthy?</p>

<p>“The other part of business is the classes where they teach you how to deal with people, It doesnt take a week of class to know what to do with a employee who is loundering money out of the company.”</p>

<p>Dealing with people is the toughest part.</p>

<p>Those that get the biggest rewards at software engineering companies are managers; not engineers. The top of the engineering career path is usually near the bottom of the managerial career track.</p>

<p>I used sit near an accountant. He had an office and I had a cube. He’s now an SVP at the company and manages thousands of engineers. He doesn’t really know what we do but he manages it. He’s worth 9 figures. I can tell you that the average engineer isn’t worth 9 figures.</p>

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<p>“I work for one of the largest software companies in the world (it may be the largest soon). I’ve worked with lots of software engineers that came in through non-traditional ways and even many without college degrees. Of course we have boatloads with MSCS and Phds but you can make amazing contributions without the sheepskin too.”</p>

<p>I never said you needed to go to school to acquire the information, all I am saying is that it takes interest and you need to actually sit down and learn the material. </p>

<p>“Have you ever written an accounts payable system? Do you have the people skills to interview those from data entry to vice presidents and to figure out what they really want and need despite them not being able to tell you precisely what they need? Have you ever seen new CS graduates writing business software? It isn’t pretty.”</p>

<p>While I haven’t, I can derive exactly what is needed and its uses just from the name. Its 100% complete common sense. Ive had friends of mine intern at Bloomberg and they seemed to all do fine with little to no knowledge of finance or accounting. </p>

<p>“How many people have you interviewed and hired?”</p>

<p>17</p>

<p>“We’re not talking about the average person on the street. In general, the typical engineer doesn’t need to understand time complexity thanks to the wonderful engineers at Intel. But at large software firms, you do have those that can explain foundations or other difficult areas if an engineer needs to come up to speed in something that he is unfamiliar with.”</p>

<p>I am talking about the average person on the street. I also do see a very high need for all of the developers to understand time complexity.</p>

<p>“Most people that I run into don’t have the ability to calculate the NPV of an investment with variable annual rates of return. If you are that good at valuing assets, are you independently wealthy?”</p>

<p>While I know what it is, if you tell the average guy on the street want you want and again he has a 4th or 5th grade math ability he should be able to derive the formula quite easily without any technical terms. </p>

<p>"Dealing with people is the toughest part.</p>

<p>Those that get the biggest rewards at software engineering companies are managers; not engineers. The top of the engineering career path is usually near the bottom of the managerial career track.</p>

<p>I used sit near an accountant. He had an office and I had a cube. He’s now an SVP at the company and manages thousands of engineers. He doesn’t really know what we do but he manages it. He’s worth 9 figures. I can tell you that the average engineer isn’t worth 9 figures."</p>

<p>Of course the managers get more, why wouldn’t they want to help each other. Its like the old boys club. Though as for importance, if we looked at civilzation today and stripped out everything a manager has ever contributed, the differences would be small. If we stripped away everything engineers have contributed, we would live in a vastly different world.</p>