<p>Wow. Based on what everyone said, does it mean Asians have to be some national prize winner, 2400 SAT, taking hardest classes possible, and musician genius (in reference to the piano genius comment)? </p>
<p>can't Asians just not state their race in their applications?</p>
<p>Often times, it'll be obvious by their names or by their activities listed.</p>
<p>I'm in the same situation here. I'm an Asian, first generation with mediocre (by CC standards) scores, a 2100, decent GPA (~3.8), and no awards other than the departmental ones from school. I applied to the top ivies. </p>
<p>I go to an underperforming school in Vermont where around 50% of graduates actually go on to college. </p>
<p>What I have going for me is that I'm humanities-oriented, and I have demonstrated passion and leadership in my essays and EC's. </p>
<p>Who knows? Maybe they will look past the whole stereotype and see something in me. You never know. Everything will work out the way it needs to be.</p>
<p>" A lot of the Asians, again not all, also seem to hate helping others with work because it is a very cutthroat environment. Asians in my school tend to keep their SAT scores so secret that people don't even bother asking, and a "bad" gpa to a lot of these kids is a 96."</p>
<p>Beefs, congratulations you have just described NYU Stern...^^this is where NYU stern gets its reputation from lol I see it first hand EVERY day</p>
<p>It's fun trying to wheedle SAT scores out of my asian friends. They all cave in to my playful nagging in the end. :D<br>
I don't even see why they keep it a secret. When people ask me, I tell them. It's not like knowing someone else's scores is going to give you an advantage over them or something.</p>
<p>The "typical Asian" is being staggering over-inflated here. According to Wikipedia, Asians in the top income bracket reported (70K+) scored an average of about 1070/1600 on the SAT. Granted, that graph dates from 1995 but they still had Asians being hurt by AA then didn't they? </p>
<p>So I think it's safe to say that Beefs' statement about "90 percent of Asians taking SAT prep courses and poring over studies until 12 or 1 or 2 in the morning" is decidedly false.</p>
<p>umm...maybe a bit. But not that much sorry.</p>
<p>In 2005, the average SAT score for whites was 534/529 (1063).... for asians it was 575/508 (1083). I'm not seeing this mythical "typical" asian who takes prep courses, studies until 1, and applies to all the ivies. Rather, I'm guessing that maybe the top 6% of asians qualify for elite colleges while maybe the top 3% of the general population do.</p>
<p>6 percent? I doubt it. Rich or poor, white or black, urban or suburban neighborhoods, Asians tend to be the most studious students and even if its not prep courses, most of these kids(because of parents' culture) tend to work alot harder than their counterparts.</p>
<p>I'd believe you if you can find a statistic that says something like "asians in the 80th percentile of their ethnic group scored a 2200" ...otherwise, stereotypes alone do not constitute an argument.</p>
<p>"umm...maybe a bit. But not that much sorry."</p>
<p>you'd be surprised</p>
<p>I imagine most people who pursue Ivies are somewhat more capable of participating in activities they wouldn't otherwise be involved in...XD</p>
<p>Education is not a means to an end, remember that. Ivy does not = success.</p>
<p>^ don't list race. Period.</p>
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At the same time, colleges cant afford to take all the 4.0 2200 Asians even if they are stronger than lets say 80 percent of the applicant pool because frankly, no matter how counter effective AA is, you can't have 70 percent of the student body be one ethnicity
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<p>Uh, why not? Why exactly is that such an outrageous idea?</p>
<p>I think it bears mention that many schools already do this...for graduate programs. For example, while I don't know the exact numbers, I would daresay that there are quite a few technical PhD programs at elite schools, including Ivies. where something like 70%+ of the students are Asian. One particular science PhD program at Harvard, that shall remain unnamed, immediately comes to mind in which the typical student is probably more fluent in Chinese than he is in English. </p>
<p>Hence, it begs the question of why exactly is it OK for these top schools to admit huge quantities of Asians for their PhD programs, but not OK to do so for their undergrad programs?</p>
<p>Sakky: your question goes to the heart of if private institutions can morally craft their incoming classes -- whether it be ethnicity, athletic status, legacy status, "development" admits, internationals & Canadians, musicians, artists, theatre people, rural people, lower socio economic students, community activists, scientists, men who desire to major in nursing, etc. These are all sub-groups that are desired to one degree or another by colleges.</p>
<p>It goes without saying that if College X desires to boost their international prestige by admitting 30 more kids from overseas, that 30 less domestic kids get in.</p>
<p>Your scenario for undergrad admission isn't outrageous, it's just not desired by schools that feel a broad diversity of students is one of the core values.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sakky: your question goes to the heart of if private institutions can morally craft their incoming classes -- whether it be ethnicity, athletic status, legacy status, "development" admits, internationals & Canadians, musicians, artists, theatre people, rural people, lower socio economic students, community activists, scientists, men who desire to major in nursing, etc.
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<p>Well, first off, I don't know that this discussion should be restricted to just private * schools. Seems to me that plenty of *public schools also craft their incoming classes. </p>
<p>For example, of the top 25 ranked college football programs in the final AP poll, 22 of them are public (I believe only USC, BC, and BYU are private). Hence, it seems to me that these schools are deeply incented to form an incoming class that will produce an elite football team. Seems to me that every star football player you admit represents one less spot available to others.</p>
<p>Hence, I'm not sure that a private school that chooses to balance its student body for racial purposes is any different than, say, Louisiana State University choosing to balance its student body in order to win the BCS national championship. I don't see why the private schools should be singled out.</p>
<p>what's your point.</p>
<p>should colleges not be able to do those things? Doesn't work, and its not for the best.</p>
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what's your point.
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<p>My point is that I don't see why we are singling out just the Ivies or just private schools. Seems to me that public schools also play games with their admissions. They're all guilty. </p>
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should colleges not be able to do those things? Doesn't work, and its not for the best.
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<p>I made no comment as to whether they should or shouldn't do it. I am simply stating that we need to recognize that private schools are not the only ones doing it.</p>
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They're all guilty.
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I'm pretty sure its obvious how you feel.</p>
<p>
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I'm pretty sure its obvious how you feel.
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<p>Sure, that if you want to criticize schools for 'shaping' their admissions, you should be criticizing all schools that do that. Not just the Ivies, and not just private schools.</p>
<p>To take it back to the original post, take a hard-working Asian-American guy who wants to go to Berkeley or UCLA. How would he feel if he got rejected because they would rather admit some football players instead? How is that any different?</p>
<p>You make it sound like football players are worth absolutely nothing in this admissions barter system. Who's to say that these great football players, who are probably All-American athletes, havent worked just as hard at football as this Asian guy at academics. How would they feel if they if they didnt get a chance to play at Cal because the Asian guy got in?</p>