<p>i'm not sure what you're trying to argue, there's nothing worse about a more selective program at a better school (kellogg grad vs. wharton grad).</p>
<p>the kellogg certificate program is through the graduate school, which is better than wharton's graduate school. Presumably, if kellogg offered a full undergraduate program, it would be better than wharton's undergraduate program, however this should be even a step above that.</p>
<p>But you are saying without regards to academics? i'm not sure what you mean?</p>
<p>i'm not sure how you can even try to compare a 100-person graduate-degree infusion program with a 2,500 person business school. The average SAT at wharton is 1430, considering northwestern's 75th percentile SAT score is 1500 (and that includes music majors, SESP majors, etc) and that those admitted to the program would be at the very top of their class in economics or math, the average SAT score of the kellogg certificate program has wharton beat by at least 100 points.</p>
<p>100 points. That's the difference between northwestern and northeastern (which cracks the top 100 schools only by virtue of a tie). FYI northeastern is ranked lower than michgan state, arizona state, etc.</p>
<p>i mean, i'm not saying if i was admitted to wharton i would study economics at northwestern (though, i'm sure many people would say that by virtue of preferring a liberal arts degree) but the kellogg certificate program against wharton is much more clear cut.</p>
<p>so... what was it you were trying to say again? wharton is a more elite program?</p>
<p>Well, to be fair to mtldad, I'd have to say Wharton MBA is actually slightly more well-regarded than Kellogg MBA. Just slightly on average. Kellogg has been ranked higher by some publications but more often, Wharton is ranked higher by others.</p>
<p>I'd say right now, probably Wharton. But give it couple years or when placement record for Kellogg cert grads is finally established and presented to respondents, then we may see different results.</p>
<p>Yes, the certificate program is technically a 4-course program. But if you count the prereqs, it's deeper than that. Those courses are also more advanced technically than most other undergrad fiannce courses. Also, you will most likelly supplement it with a degree in econ. It's the combo of econ + Kellogg cert you should be looking at if your intended major is NU's econ, not just the 4-course program itself, because that's what the potential employers are going to see.</p>
<p>i have never heard wharton mba regarded more highly than kellogg... American Psycho, the guy on the OC, kellogg is the generic MBA name to go to when you want to represent "the best of the best." Like in movies, when you say the person went to harvard to emphasize the best you can be, they use kellogg when they're talking about that with regard to MBAs</p>
<p>i'm not even trying to be argumentative here, i'm just saying.</p>
<p>There are really only a few things that worry me about Northwestern... is it a little TOO centered around the fraternaties? I mean, I don't know whether or not I would like to join one in the future, but an entire social system revolving around the greek system isn't really a good thing...</p>
<p>Also, with regards to after graduation, it seems like I would have more choices of where to live in the country if I went to UPenn because it seems like its students are a tad more nationally recognized and recruited, whereas with Northwestern, I'm sure I would have great job prospects, but would they be centered around mostly the Midwest area, with some econ majors working in the Northeast? At this point, I really don't have too much of an idea of where I want to live, so I figure if it might be better if I have more options after college.</p>
<p>Oh, and the cold... I hear it gets to -10 in the winter, but i mean, if you dress well enough, it wouldn't be too much of a problem... right?</p>
<p>tedhead, i agree with mtldad. At this level, you can't go wrong and must follow your gut. It seems to me that your concerns about NU are significant enough that you might be better served to go to one of the other GREAT schools you have to choose from.</p>
<p>NU is definitely cold. This past year was the coldest on record and I am hoping mightily that it got it out of its system before I matriculate in the fall. I am working on my winter wardrobe though, knowing I'm not headed to the south...</p>
<p>The thing is, I liked NU so much that the "weather" part of my college search criteria was set aside for the "fit" aspects of the university.</p>
<p>If you aren't feeling it, don't go to NU. If you find yourself working hard to convince yourself, it's probably not the right place for you and you have so many other tremendous options, Wharton certainly being at the top of your impressive list.</p>
<p>You can't go "wrong" with any of your choices. All you can do is be true to what will make YOU feel content and comfortable over the next 4 years and go with that. Your instincts will not lead you astray so listen to them.</p>
<p>tedhead, if you need to be "convinced," I think you need to continue shopping. I can only speak for myself, of course, but if I needed to have a bunch of strangers convince me to go to NU, I'd really think about it a hundred times before making a decision to go.</p>
<p>It sounds like you are leaning towards Wharton and no one here can argue against that choice. Everyone knows it's a great school with a first class reputation. This is not to denigrate the Kellogg program or the certificate; it's only to point out that Wharton is a great opportunity. Each school offers its own "stuff."</p>
<p>Do you want 14 karat gold or the equivalent in silver, sir?</p>
<p>um, ok just to clear stuff up, I didnt' get accepted into Wharton, I got accepted into SEAS at Penn and the engineering school at Northwestern, but with a desire to take almost as many business classes as I can as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>And ya, I am VERY indecisive, one of the things I really wish i wasn't... I'm getting to the point of obsession trying to find out the most I can about each school before I make a decision. Each day switches back and forth about where I am leaning toward... even more so recently. Yesterday I was 80% toward NU and today I am 80% toward Upenn... I know they are both great choices, but I just don't want to make a choice going somewhere that really isnt' for me and ruin the chance I had to go elsewhere... which is why I'm researching my brains (and sanity) out the last week or two.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help the last few days everyone!</p>
<p>on second thought, if you are having a hard time even considering it, penn would be better if you are really leaning that way, there would be nothing like going to a school wishing you had gone to the other place the whole time.</p>
<p>On a side note, evanston is only slightly colder than philadelphia, an average of maybe 5 or 6 degrees</p>
<p>tedhead, you might be at the "flip a coin" stage. If you choose the "wrong" place, you always have the transfer option.</p>
<p>What kind of decision-maker are you? Do you usually have this kind of trouble or are you usually able to make a decision and live happily with it?</p>
<p>If you have analysis paralysis, you may be discontent in either place, looking over your shoulder - and wondering - in which case you might not really be happy at either school. If you can make a decision and be fine with it, you can't go wrong with NU or UPenn.</p>
<p>Both are great schools. I didn't look at UPenn because I wanted to get away from the east coast. It is an Ivy which is always a plus, no matter how you slice it. I loved everything about NU except the weather, but figured it's only for 4 years and I'll be in it with everyone else on campus. </p>
<p>There is always grad school...</p>
<p>Let us know what you decide. It's not fun to struggle. Do you have a "convince me" thread going on the UPenn site? If not, you probably ought to go there.</p>
<p>Decision-maker wise... I'll only have trouble forgetting about the other school if my experience at the school I chose end up being not too good.</p>
<p>Yes I do have a thread on the upenn site also... but it kind of dried up a while ago...</p>
<p>The one interesting variable about Northwestern is the MMSS program... although I'm a little worried how interested I am in that because of how different it is from my intended major of engineering right now. It is well past the deadline to apply for the program, but the head guy of the program said that we could still send in applications for him to consider after May 1 and that there would be a good chance we could get in, depending on how many open slots he has.</p>
<p>It's really a tough call, i would give the overall edge to a upenn degree if you care most about marketability, and to northwestern (for engineering) if you care more about rank of your specific program, though even though northwestern is ranked higher, will still most likely not give it the edge in terms of marketability over upenn's prestige.</p>
<p>the social scenes at each school are different to such a nuanced degree that it would probably be hard to ascertain the difference without actually experiencing each one.</p>
<p>so that makes the decision hard because i would say liking the school you go to in this case will have much more of an effect on your career prospects than the prestige edge of upenn.</p>
<p>there is always that the consideration that upenn might be more selective when applying to transfer into if you don't end up liking your first year at school. It would be easier to transfer to northwestern after not liking upenn than vice versa</p>
<p>then there is also the consideration that if you are not the right type you might be more prone to disliking upenn than northwestern, which by virtue of being on the east coast, might inherently have more to dislike about it than a more easygoing midwestern school.</p>
<p>At times like these, parents tend to come in very handy.....why don't you ask them their thoughts? Also, both schools have very diverse student bodies....appreciating the "midwest" comment....but, people at both schools come from all over the country and world. When in doubt, ask the people that care for you more than anything what they think.</p>
<p>I have a feeling that you are going to miserable if you want to study econ/business and don't manage to transfer into Wharton from SEAS. According to a Wharton admit as well as my GC, the prevailing sentiment among Whartonites was that they were above the rest of Penn. Of course, you could have a different, wonderful experience, but this is a pov you should consider carefully.</p>
<p>That said, I believe Wharton's prestige wins at this point. College is what you make of it, and you can't go wrong at either of these schools. Visit and see which one you like better.</p>
<p>You are getting incorrect info from this forum so I thought I would help you out a little.</p>
<p>Transferring into Wharton is GPA + prereqs based. They admit over 100 students that want to transfer internally every year (the overwhelming majority are rising sophomores). The dual degree pool and the transfer pool is considered together for admissions purposes. There is no interview, nothing subjective about the process. You just need Econ, Calc, a couple other reqs maybe (depending on when you apply) and about a 3.7 GPA and then you automatically get into Wharton from another school in the university. It's not easy to get that GPA at Penn (especially in Engineering though) so you may not get in. The process doesn't take into account your major (though it's probably easier for a Sociology major to get that GPA).I know people that have gone from Engineering to Engineering/Wharton though.</p>
<p>If you want to go into business on Wall Street, Penn is a much better place to be. Obviously Northwestern offers better Chicago opportunities. Penn has better placement at MBA programs than Northwestern and is generally more prestigious. Engineering students at Penn are heavily recruited by management consulting and financial services firms.</p>
<p>The culture, presence of frats, etc. at both schools are very similar. The location is different though. Penn is decidedly urban whereas Northwestern is very close to Chicago but it is in Evanston, which is outside the city and it doesn't have an urban feel to it (i.e. you don't see taxis everywhere as far as I know like at Penn). Don't know much about the certificate at Northwestern but unless Northwestern is a heavily recruited target school at the specific company you are interested in I doubt the employer give great weight to a certificate. They will probably take into account things like internship experience, GPA, demonstrated interest, knowledge of the employer, interview skills, etc. </p>
<p>The most prestigious, selective school you got into was Penn, but it's more about where you feel most comfortable. You should visit both to decide (if you haven't already; if you have, go again).</p>
<p>My roommate was invited to the Jerome Fisher Program at UPenn and Murphy Scholars Program at Northwestern and chose the latter (obviously, since he's my roommate), but I'm not sure why. We don't talk in detail about these things.</p>
<p>Have you visited both schools? If not, doing so might be helpful now, since you're at a point where intangibles could sway your decision one way or the other. Go with your gut.</p>
No matter what you decide to major in, both schools have the academic rigor to get you where you want to go. I think you need to understand the environments at both schools and pick the one where you feel more comfortable with. Penn is a very urban environment and has an East Coast vibe. NU is a small city (with access to a large city) with a very Midwestern vibe. The NU campus is about 30% Greek but it’s pretty low key – if you want to be in a frat, great; if you don’t, there are plenty of other social opportunities.