<p>I doubt if humanities majors are deluding themselves. The purpose of a liberal arts degree is to learn how to think critically, to write well, and to learn about life-enhancing ideas and arts. It is also excellent preparation for future studies, including for professional degrees, such as law -- the best students in my law school class were literature majors, who had learned how to read texts closely and write clearly and persuasively. It worked for me. I trust that it will work for my kids, too. Cornell and Berkeley would both offer excellent opportunities in the humanities. The weather is a lot nicer in Berkeley. I have not seen Cornell, but Berkeley has a park-like setting, complete with streams and wooded areas, very nice for an urban school.</p>
<p>thayellowmonkey- Are you OOS at UC Berkeley? The estimated cost of Berkeley for OOS is $42,956. Compared to Cornell for $45,877, UCB isn't much of a bargain. It's a bit more reasonable in-state at $24,272 (but still expensive).</p>
<p>The average debt of Cornell grads is $23,450. The average debt of Berkeley grads is $13,171.</p>
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Are you OOS at UC Berkeley? The estimated cost of Berkeley for OOS is $39,558. Compared to Cornell for $41,417, I really don't think UCB is much of a bargain OOS. In-state, it's more reasonable.
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<p>These numbers also fail to calculate financial aid, which often times tends to be more aggressively offered at the Ivies than at Berkeley. For example, I know some people who were in-state Californians and found out that, for then, the Ivies were going to be CHEAPER than going to Berkeley, once financial aid was factored in. Basically, because they came from families of modest income, the Ivies were offering them full rides + stipends, whereas Berkeley wanted to take loans. So the question to them was whether they wanted to PAY to go to Berkeley, or go to an Ivy and GET PAID. I don't know about anybody else, but that seems like a no-brainer to me, especially if your family doesn't have much money.</p>
<p>Yep. The reason I'm at Duke is because it was MUCH cheaper than UNC Chapel Hill, even as an in-state resident.</p>
<p>Offhand I can't think of a single Cornell liberal arts grad I went to school with for whom the bachelor's was a terminal degree. I think most considered their undergraduate studies to be a suitable platform for further advanced studies down the road. I would expect that one would find that the long-term earning power for Cornell Arts & Sciences grads is pretty high. Though many chose less lucrative paths, of their own free will.</p>
<p>It was my understanding at Cornell that my fellow students recognized the value of liberal arts and the likely ultimate achievement level of its graduates. I can't think of anyone there who was walking around saying that all these future professionals, executives & PhDs were unemployable due to their unmarketable bachelor's degrees. If there is some difference in the mindset of Berkeley students in this regard, it could make for a less comfortable experience for liberal arts students on campus, it seems to me. Even if their eventual paths in life are the same.</p>
<p>Yes I am Asian. But I haven't lived in California for two years, so I don't think I can get the low price for UCB. Personally, I don't like Berkeley that much. I prefer the cleaner suburban towns instead of urban SF, as I lived in the Bay Area all my life. I wouldn't be bored in Ithaca, as I've lived the past two years of my life in an even dinkier town. But I'm just seeing in advance, if I get accepted to both Cornell and UCB, which one should I go to? I'm a pretty well rounded student, and don't know what to study. I would want to go to Stanford, to stay in Cali, but the admissions and testing deadlines for stanford might be too early for me to get good scores.
So academically speaking, Berkeley is better rounded for undergraduates right? Cuz I don't know what I will study, and I want to keep my options for graduate studies open. I'm thinking about Med, business, law, or journalism. And I need financial aid, so.?</p>
<p>"So academically speaking, Berkeley is better rounded for undergraduates right? "</p>
<p>Don't know where this notion comes from. I know little about Berkeley, but Cornell is "well-rounded", as I think of this term anyway. There are more fields of study available there than at most places.</p>
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It is clearly true that there are fewer Asians as a percentage of the student body at Cornell than at Berkeley. But I don't know that I would classify it is as a 'small minority'. Asians still constitute the single largest non-white racial group at Cornell, at 16% of all undergrads (and 14% of all students).
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<p>Well, I would say it's a small minority compared to Berkeley's percentage of Asians. 14% means 1 out of 7 people you see is an Asian. Those odds aren't too good, compared to Berkeley where about 1 out of 2 people is an Asian. It's all relative. There are many schools out there with an Asian population of around 0.2%, and Cornell, in comparison, would be filled with Asians. But since we are comparing Cornell to Berkeley, I thought the difference was worth mentioning. I know it probably matters at least a little to some students.</p>
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Offhand I can't think of a single Cornell liberal arts grad I went to school with for whom the bachelor's was a terminal degree. I think most considered their undergraduate studies to be a suitable platform for further advanced studies down the road
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<p>Yeah, but did you ever think that this was the case BECAUSE a liberal arts bachelor's degree is not highly marketable? Heck, you yourself alluded to the possibility that perhaps one reason that the LAC's send such a high percentage of their students to PhD programs is because not a lot of high-profile jobs are available to LAC graduates. I'm not saying that I agree with that logic, but if that logic is correct, then it would seem to me that the same sort of logic would apply to lib-arts grads from Cornell (or also Berkeley). </p>
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It was my understanding at Cornell that my fellow students recognized the value of liberal arts and the likely ultimate achievement level of its graduates. I can't think of anyone there who was walking around saying that all these future professionals, executives & PhDs were unemployable due to their unmarketable bachelor's degrees. If there is some difference in the mindset of Berkeley students in this regard, it could make for a less comfortable experience for liberal arts students on campus, it seems to me. Even if their eventual paths in life are the same.
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<p>I am simply making the point that some majors are more marketable than others, and this holds at all schools. Nothing more, nothing less. </p>
<p>And, again, you keep talking about how all of these lib-arts grads are going to be future professionals, executives, or PhD's. Are you saying that none of them have career difficulties? Perhaps we should ask the Cornell grad who ended up being a barrista at Starbucks what he/she thinks of the value of his/her degree? Or the Berkeley grad who ended up being a house painter. </p>
<p>The point I'm making is that just because you go to a prestigious school doesn't mean that you should expect to have a good job handed to you. Plenty of grads end up in mediocre jobs that, frankly, they could have gotten right out of high school.</p>
<p>In my opinion, UC Berkeley is better than Cornell. Again, just my personal opinion.</p>
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liberal arts
1. the academic course of instruction at a college intended to provide general knowledge and comprising the arts, humanities, natural sciences, and social sciences, as opposed to professional or technical subjects.
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liberal arts
pl.n.</p>
<ol>
<li>Academic disciplines, such as languages, literature, history, philosophy, mathematics, and science, that provide information of general cultural concern.
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<p>Both schools are very strong across many, many disciplines.</p>
<p>I like Berkeley better in general, but since you are OOS, Cornell will most likely be the better choice financially.</p>
<p>Cornell is more selective than Berkeley as measured by SATs. Cornell students have higher SAT scores (by 70 points at the 25th percentile). Berkeley does not accept many out of state students, so less geodiversity at Berkeley. Cornell's graduation rate is 5% higher. Cornell has the Ivy prestige going for it. I would give the edge to Cornell.</p>
<p>Collegehelp, 70 points is negligible. You can easily attribute it to the fact that most Ivy League students take prep courses for the SAT and sit for the SAT more, on average, 3 times or more. </p>
<p>I would say that the schools are peers in terms of quality and prestige. I would chose between those two powerhouses based on overall fit.</p>
<p>Berkeley's actual SAT score is lower than reported because they have a significant amount of transfers from community colleges compared to other colleges, like Cornell.</p>
<p>Cornell has a stronger student body and is financially comparable to UCB when out of state. Cornell is also more recognized on the East Coast. Only pick UCB if you're in California or plan to stay in California. Otherwise, Cornell is the clear choice. Even then, a lot of people in California opt to go study on the East Coast.</p>
<p>Alexandre-
I agree that both Berkeley and Cornell are more or less peers, but they do have some differences. I also agree that fit might outweigh the difference in SAT selectivity and graduation rate. It might be a difficult choice between Cornell and Berkeley for a non-Californian.</p>
<p>But, if all else were equal, including fit, then the differences in SAT selectivity and graduation rate could be a tie-breaker.</p>
<p>I don't know how many times students take the SAT on average at Cornell vs Berkeley but I believe you when you say that Cornellians re-take the SAT more. Do you happen to know how big the difference is?</p>
<p>The difference in SAT scores might also be due to the fact that Berkeley is a state school and is obligated to favor California residents which forces them to reach lower into the applicant pool. Just a possibility. Seventy points is the difference at the 25th percentile. The difference at the 75th percentile is only 30 points. The distributions are different, with more lower-SAT students at Berkeley.</p>
<p>The SAT difference is not huge but it is not negligible either. I think it is enough to make a distinction, other things equal.</p>
<p>If we're going to talk about SAT scores, I think it should be noted that Cornell's SAT scores are actually somewhat distroted due to having colleges like Hotel, Architecture and Human Ecology that don't consider SAT scores as much.</p>
<p>I think Cornell places more weight in the SAT I, and Berkeley does not. Now, if you think the SAT I is a great measure of how good a student is, then it makes sense to think that Cornell has a better student body due to SAT I scores. However, as was pointed out, we should keep in mind that the numbers measure different things- that Berkeley's reports the highest single-sitting test only. It seems as if both schools have high concentrations of high scorers, Cornell having a higher percentage (4% more with over 1500).</p>
<p>I think the 5% graduation rate difference (if it is that) is pretty negligible, and there are far more important factors to consider.</p>
<p>I really don't see how you can compare the two. They're opposites in more ways than one. Weather, food, student body, sports, housing, location- I don't see much in common. Visit both. Basing a decision on imagined differences in prestige is absurd and foolhardy. It may seem to matter to you now, but prestige doesn't seem nearly as important when you're in college.</p>
<p>I would also avoid wondering which one is stronger in "biomed, premed, and journalism" because the academics are roughly equal. The difference between Cornell and Berkeley in these areas is very small, with each having different strengths.</p>
<p>Hi, I am a high school senior also looking at these two schools.
As far as SAT scores go, Berkeley takes scores from one sitting of the test, while Cornell combines the highest math, verbal, and writing scores to come up with the composite score. I bet this would account for most, if not all of the score differential.
I recently visited Cornell, and the UCB vs. Cornell choice seems to have been a common one for Cornell students who came from California. The schools seem academically comparable on the whole, although there are differences in specific programs. So, as people have been saying throughout the thread, it's mostly an idea of personal 'fit'.
That said, 'fit' is a very elusive concept and saying that it is important doesn't help determine where it exists. It would be really cool if people could continue to relate experiences/perceptions of differences in culture between the two schools.
(If anyone wants to go into specifics, I am an environmentally-conscious (female) bay area resident potentially majoring in mechanical engineering. I like english and want to take liberal arts classes as well. I also really like skiing and rockclimbing. It would be cool to leave the bay area. I don't think I like fraternities and sororities.) Cornell or UCB?
Thanks everyone!</p>