<p>You're posting somewhat subjective graduate rankings in one speciality as proof a school is superior. Try to compare them effectively by looking at the whole student body of undergrad. According to PR, Northwestern has avg SAT of 1401, 82% in top 10% and 30% acceptance rate. UIllinois has avg SAT of 1285, 48% in top 10% and 76% acceptance rate and UWisconsin has avg SAT of 1260, 56% in top 10% and 68% acceptance rate. Even Alexandre wouldn't try to argue that these three are all comparable.</p>
<p>not just engineering!!!</p>
<p>Graduate rankings in sociology are irrelevant to this discussion.</p>
<p>What's your problem. The OP asked to rank the BIG TEN, I obliged and ranked the schools considering many factors, including reputation, grad/undergrad, engineering reputation, liberal art reputaion etc not just SATs...If you do not agree with mine, fine. But never ever say that UIUC/Madsion kids are dumber than NW's kids.</p>
<p>It's NU...not NW.</p>
<p>"I hope that you folks continue to underestimate MSU when the time comes for my kid to apply in a couple of years. LOL. MSU is increasing its recruiting efforts here in the northeast, but I hope the competion here doesn't find out what great programs MSU has and how fun the college experience can be in East Lansing."</p>
<p>I'm with you LakeWashington, the terms "underrated" and "best kept secret" are often voiced by individuals who really know higher ed and of MSU's quality -- the school gets a really raw deal because it's often unfairly downgraded next to local state neighbor UM, esp in the natural sciences, where MSU should best Michigan as well as rank among the nation's best... And its extremely well thought of residential colleges (2, soon to be 3) -- and of which none of the Big 10/11 schools comes close to duplicating -- are completely ignored by way too many folks who should know a thing or 2 about quality undergrad experiences at major public research universities well, its hearting to see not everyone is similarly blinded.</p>
<p>I think this thread "groups" the schools wrong.</p>
<p>Northwestern * I think at the UG level, that private, top 10-allure make it above the rest. I don't agree with this (I turned down NU and saved 80K), but I certainly find that most people believe this. </p>
<p>Michigan
Wisconsin
Illinois * These three schools have VERY similiar student bodies, although UW/UM are more out of state. They also have top programs in the business/engineering fields (all 3 are top 15 at the UG level in both) and have varying strength in other fields. UW and UI are great in communications. UW and UM are great for humanities. Certain medical fields are better at Wisconsin than "Harvard" level schools... etc.</p>
<p>PSU
Indiana</p>
<p>Purdue (only for certain things, of course)
Minnesota
OSU</p>
<p>Iowa
MSU</p>
<hr>
<p>Certain schools are stronger than others in specific fields. For example, Iowa's creative writing is the best in the big ten. Illinois in engineering, Michigan business, etc. But these rankings are pretty bad. I'm majoring in the liberal arts, with specific fields that Wisconsin is the best, if not one of the best in the country for. At the UG level, it wouldn't make sense to follow some of the "tradional views" of prestige. Besides, PSU is widely considered to be the most prestigious big ten school to the layperson. Google some of the news stories on the subject.</p>
<p>As an aside.... Ann Arbor and Madison are incredibly intellectual cities. there are thousands of students at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big ten schools) who would have the stats to get into Northwestern and other top schools. The larger Big Ten schools have to deal with the economics of supply and demand, forcing them to admit a higher number of students. Certainly. However, the resources of the best public schools enables any student willing to take the initiative a great education. </p>
<p>Don't by the hype. I have an incredible city, great athletics, a great social life, well rounded people, very solid academics. My friends and people I have met from NU certainly complain about lacking more than one of those.</p>
<p>If we are talking academics, we should include the University of Chicago, which belongs to the CIC, which is the academic arm of the Big 10 (the Big 10 + the University of Chicago):</p>
<h1>1 Northwestern University</h1>
<h1>1 University of Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor</h1>
<h1>4 University of Wisconsin-Madison</h1>
<h1>5 University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign</h1>
<h1>6 Indiana University-Bloomington</h1>
<h1>6 Pennsylvania State University-University Park</h1>
<h1>6 Purdue University-West Lafayette</h1>
<h1>6 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities</h1>
<h1>10 Michigan State University-East Lansing</h1>
<h1>10 Ohio State University-Columbus</h1>
<h1>10 University of Iowa</h1>
<p>All 12 CIC universities are excellent, so there is no shame in being ranked #10 in that group. The top 3 are probably ranked anywhere between #6 and #20 in the nation. The bottom 3 are probably ranked anywhere between #50 and #70 in the nation. All 12 of them are ranked in the top 2% of the nation's universities.</p>
<p>Northwestern (top-rate academics, beautiful campus, individualized teaching)
Michigan
U Illinois (another great campus, strong in many majors/departments)
Wisconsin
Penn State
Ohio State
Purdue
Iowa
Minnesota
Indian U
Michigan State
Ohio U
Iowa State</p>
<p>Northwestern is the best school overall. Michigan is a strong second, but if you really got down to the overall numbers, you'd find it very very hard to argue that Michigan was better or equal to Northwestern.</p>
<p>I'm sure hundreds of students turn down NU for Michigan and U Illinois. Because Northwestern is damn expensive. People turn down Harvard for state schools.</p>
<p>This is for overall:</p>
<p>1-Northwestern
2-UMichigan
3-UWisconsin
4-UIllinois
5-Penn State
6-UMinnesota
7-Purdue
8-IndianaU
9-UIowa
10-Ohio State
11-Michigan State</p>
<p>For sports:
1-Ohio State
2-Penn State
3-UWisconsin
4-UIowa
5-IndianaU
6-UMichigan
7-Michigan State
8-UMinnesota
9-UIllinois
10-Northwestern
11-Purdue</p>
<p>For undergrad business:
1-Illinois
2-Michigan
3-Indiana
4-Northwestern
5-Purdue
6-Minnesota
7-Wisconsin
8-Michigan St.
9-Ohio State
10-Penn St.
11-Iowa</p>
<p>Engineering:
1-Michigan
2-Purdue
3-Illinois
4-Northwestern
5-Minnesota
6-Wisconsin
7-Iowa
8-Michigan St.
9-Ohio State
10-Penn St.
11-Indiana(doesn't have one)</p>
<p>Political Science:
1-Michigan
2-Ohio St.
3-Northwestern
4-Iowa
5-Wisconsin
6-Indiana
7-Michigan St.
8-Minnesota
9-Illinois
10-Penn St.
11-Purdue</p>
<p>Hottest Girls
1-Indiana
2-Penn St.
3-Ohio St.
4-Michigan St.
5-Wisconsin
6-Iowa
7-Michigan
8-Illinois
9-Minnesota
10-Northwestern
11-Purdue</p>
<p>Best Opportunities
1-Northwestern
2-Michigan
3-Illinois
4-Purude
5-Wisconsin
6-Penn St.
7-Ohio St.
8-Indiana
9-Minnesota
10-Iowa
11-Michigan St.</p>
<p>I want to see the scientific method for ranking 'hottest girls.'</p>
<p>Indy, your list in interesting, but slightly off. </p>
<p>For example, in the case of undergraduate Business, Michigan should be #1 (by a significant margin), followed by Indiana. UIUC is good in Business, but not as good as Ross or Kelley. </p>
<p>For undergraduate Engineering, UIUC is at least as good as Michigan and Purdue, Northwestern and Wisconsin are next. </p>
<p>For sports, rating Michigan at #6 is kind of low don't you think? I mean, Michigan has one of the top 2 Big 10football programs and a top flight Hockey program too. </p>
<p>For "overall" and opportunities, it is very difficult to pick Northwestern over Michigan or Michigan over Northwestern. They are peers in every sense of the word.</p>
<p>alexandre, i disagree w. u, and i am sure most ppl would</p>
<p>Michigan is a fine school, but i am sorry, u cant compare it to Cornell and Northwestern</p>
<p>they just are a lot more selective, in every sense of the word</p>
<p>that matters more than u give credit for</p>
<p>And yet, Michigan places as high a percentage of its students into top graduate schools and exclusive IBanks and MC firms. I guess Michiugan takes a lower calibre student population and somehow educates them better than Cornell and Northwestern.</p>
<p>indybur1 - Whatttttttt? I have yet to see a ranking on CC that I have been so compelled to wonder if a random number generator was used.</p>
<p>I could write a masters thesis for the multiple things I see wrong with it, however I'm going to focus on political science.</p>
<p>Wisconsin and Michigan have the best two political science departments in the big ten. Michigan ranks ahead of Wisconsin on the graduate level, but the two are pretty similiar at the UG level. While I can't speak for Michigan, Wisconsin's program is incredible. It's 5 minutes from the state capital, an absurd amount of resources, great programs for undergrad study abroad and in DC, and thousands of students involved with political related organizations. ******** ranking.</p>
<p>Another aside:</p>
<p>I'm not sure if investment banking and consulting are the best gauges for quality of education. It indicates a STRONG alumni network, solid school reputation, and a great business program. But how can you compare the sciences, many liberal arts, kids who are interested in pre-law, etc. Also, investment banking is certainly not the end goal for most students. I would argue the historical evidence in # of CEOs, CFOs, Presidents, etc. in top corporations would be better to compare educations. Political science majors (super majority) will never become an investment banker from Michigan ... but may inevitably work in the corporate world.</p>
<p>Further, I wonder how much data exists to accurately compare NU vs Mich for graduate placement.</p>
<p>BUSINESS</p>
<h1>1 Michigan (Ross)</h1>
<h1>2 Indiana (Kelley)</h1>
<h1>3 Michigan State (Broad)</h1>
<h1>3 Minnesota (Carlson)</h1>
<h1>3 Ohio State (Fisher)</h1>
<h1>3 Penn State (Smeal)</h1>
<h1>3 Purdue (Krannert)</h1>
<h1>3 UIUC</h1>
<h1>3 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>10 Iowa</h1>
<p>Chicago and Northwestern do not have undergraduate Business programs although their MBA programs are exceptionally good. </p>
<p>ENGINEERING & COMPUTER SCIENCE</p>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>1 UIUC</h1>
<h1>3 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>3 Purdue</h1>
<h1>3 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>6 Penn State</h1>
<h1>6 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>8 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>9 Iowa</h1>
<h1>9 Michigan State</h1>
<p>Chicago and Indiana do not have Engineering programs</p>
<p>SOCIAL SCIENCES (Anthropology, Econ, Political Science, Psychology, Sociology)</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>3 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>4 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>5 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>5 UIUC</h1>
<h1>7 Indiana</h1>
<h1>7 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>7 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>7 Penn State</h1>
<h1>11 Iowa</h1>
<h1>12 Purdue</h1>
<p>HUMANITIES (Classics, English, History, Languages, International Studies)</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>3 Indiana</h1>
<h1>3 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>3 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>6 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>6 UIUC</h1>
<h1>8 Iowa</h1>
<h1>9 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>9 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>9 Penn State</h1>
<h1>12 Purdue</h1>
<p>SCIENCES (Astronomy, Biology, Chemistry, Earth Sciences, Mathematics, Physics)</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>2 Michigan</h1>
<h1>2 UIUC</h1>
<h1>2 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>5 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>6 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>6 Penn State</h1>
<h1>8 Indiana</h1>
<h1>8 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>8 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>8 Purdue</h1>
<h1>12 Iowa</h1>
<p>SPORTS</p>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>1 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>3 Penn State</h1>
<h1>4 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>5 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>6 Indiana</h1>
<h1>6 Iowa</h1>
<h1>6 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>6 Purdue</h1>
<h1>6 UIUC</h1>
<h1>11 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>12 Chicago</h1>
<p>CAMPUS (school spirit, activites, intellectual atmosphere, architecture). This is highly personal and really depends on the individual's preference.</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 Indiana</h1>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>1 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>1 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>6 Penn State</h1>
<h1>6 Iowa</h1>
<h1>6 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>9 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>9 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>9 Purdue</h1>
<h1>9 UIUC</h1>
<p>TOWN (location, atmosphere, safety, local population)</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>1 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>1 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>5 Indiana</h1>
<h1>5 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>7 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>8 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>8 Penn State</h1>
<h1>8 UIUC</h1>
<h1>11 Iowa</h1>
<h1>11 Purdue</h1>
<p>RESOURCES (Endowment, endowment per student, library, facilities, faculty, alumni network, graduate school and professional placement)</p>
<h1>1 Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 Michigan</h1>
<h1>1 Northwestern</h1>
<h1>4 Wisconsin</h1>
<h1>5 Minnesota</h1>
<h1>5 UIUC</h1>
<h1>7 Indiana</h1>
<h1>7 Michigan State</h1>
<h1>7 Ohio State</h1>
<h1>7 Penn State</h1>
<h1>11 Iowa</h1>
<h1>12 Purdue</h1>
<p>OVERALL (stays unchanged)</p>
<h1>1 Northwestern University</h1>
<h1>1 University of Chicago</h1>
<h1>1 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor</h1>
<h1>4 University of Wisconsin-Madison</h1>
<h1>5 University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign</h1>
<h1>6 Indiana University-Bloomington</h1>
<h1>6 Pennsylvania State University-University Park</h1>
<h1>6 Purdue University-West Lafayette</h1>
<h1>6 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities</h1>
<h1>10 Michigan State University-East Lansing</h1>
<h1>10 Ohio State University-Columbus</h1>
<h1>10 University of Iowa</h1>
<p>There aren't many ways to gauge graduate school placement. The closest thing to it is the WSJ top 50 feeder schools ranking, which has Northwestern at #14, Cornell at #16 and Michigan and #18 among research universities. </p>
<p>As one can plainly see, the three schools are pretty much identical, placing between 2.75% and 3.7% of their graduates into top 5 graduate programs.</p>
<p>ok ok i take back what i said.</p>
<p>Not at all Tom. Yes, PSU definitely has a great party scene, but it is also a respected academic institution. Like I said, all 12 CIC schools are excellent and PSU is middle of the CIC pack academically speaking. PSU's strengths are in Engineering, Business and the Sciences.</p>