Not at all – I went to state university and have done totally well for myself as do many many others
Our youngest got caught up in prestige. I had the fever for about 3-4 days, after she was accepted. Then, the fever broke and I could see the financial reality and came to my senses.
Why posters think that going to a public university dooms you to poverty and going to an elite college ensures a wealthy future is the same as those who think that going to any college results in the same opportunities. Neither is true.
I helped a little with the list for the son of one of my coworkers. His list is pure prestige plus his auto-admit to our ranked state public.
Why? For someone super-smart with low income, they are the only colleges that are both need-blind and meet 100% need. He would get that $300k education that others are willing to buy for little to no cost to him. With the local college more highly rated than most and an EFC close to zero, there is no need to chase merit at Pitt or look at location he finds less desirable like Vandy.
The cost vs. value discussion is an important one for donut-holers in the $100k-$250k income range. It does not apply to everyone.
“State” U can be a prestigious or average school. I see so many parents on CC wanting their kids to go to one of many small private schools that rank highly and are considered prestigious in their east coast locale. But- for many of us lucky folks our public flagship U’s may not make their lists but offer a lot more academically than most they may brag about. Also, getting that dream job is often a function of where you want to live. So many of us do not care nor value the same jobs that seem to be prestigious- big name firm in the Northeast, for example. Not everyone is into business majors…
There are pros and cons to every top ranked/elite school. Fit as well as top notch academics means a lot. There are many places a given student can get a top education. Some posts back mentions the fact that the student, not the U, is what matters. Of course this also implies the student is at a school in the same league, not going to a CC or regional U but rather to a school with academic peers. Top students outnumber the places at top prestigious schools- so many of our country’s best are at their flagship U’s. They become the profs and textbook writers for the big name schools as well.
Well prestige is perception and perception is not reality so I get lost even discussing “prestige.” And no going to an elite college does not guarantee a wealthy future…I think the vast majority of people get that. The least wealthy friend in our social circle is an Ivy grad…but abysmal at being able to hold down a job. Plus I think it can be still said that while difficult to get into a few of the Ivy or perceived prestige colleges it is more difficult than getting a decent GPA getting out so I’m not even convinced that “rigor” is a justifiable reason.
My D wasn’t into prestige at all and I wasn’t interested in it for her. Our goal was a full ride to a good school that was a good, though not perfect, fit. Goal achieved and we’re both very happy with the outcome.
@mom2and Actually most could not. Full rides are very limited these days. And many are harder to win than getting into Stanford or Harvard.
I think that for the very top kids there are still some full rides at lesser ranked schools. But to be more accurate, I should have said full tuition or substantial discount, which is still possible for many of the kids who may get into the top schools, if they look far enough down the rankings.
Rigor was the top consideration for our kids. (at least as far as the adults who were paying the bills were concerned).
None of them were interested in medical school where “protecting” the GPA has become a fetish. If they weren’t going to stretch themselves while surrounded by talented and smart and hard-working students, what’s the point of college? I have neighbors who brag that their kids are 4.0 students at XYZ directional and barely have to go to class to maintain their high GPA.
??? High GPA not the be-all and end all in my book.
People tend to fear downward economic mobility, even if the end point is still well off. I.e. those with $250,000 incomes tend to think of $100,000 income as “poverty”. Of course, at that level, there is not much room for upward economic mobility.
@blossom Students can stretch themselves at most schools. You’re painting a false dichotomy.
My D’s situation is a combination of @Wien2NC and @blossom
The most prestigious schools gave the best need-based aid so the need-based only schools she applied to were the most prestigious. She also wanted the most rigorous school that would prepare her for a life of research. Turns out she got a great choice 45 miles from home. We are paying a few thousand more a year than her cheaper options but the Integrated Science Curriculum is perfect for what she wanted and the longest it’s been without seeing her has been 19 days so I’m thrilled.
Perhaps the attitudes toward college prestige / selectivity can be summed up by whether one judges a college by its worst students or by its best students.
Prestige was a non-factor since my kids didn’t really even know enough about prestigious colleges to have an opinion before they applied. Money was the number one factor, which is why we were focused on schools like UTD and UAH that give at least full tuition scholarships.
Yeah, in the end, my kids did go to “prestigious” schools (MIT and Penn), but that was in part because they were very affordable due to incredible need-based aid and outside scholarship. Middle son did choose Penn in part because of the connection to Pixar (he was to be a Fine Arts major), as well.
Looking back on the selection process I think we did tend to fall into this indirectly. We felt that our son should attend a school with like academic peers. His high GPA meant the schools would be more selective. I think the general consensus is that prestige goes hand in hand with selectivity. His overall stats were not IVY league caliber but we still wanted him to find a school with a good academic fit that was affordable. Affordability won as you have to pick a school that you can pay for. The more selective schools he was accepted to were just too expensive.
As we see over and over on this site, students oftentimes are not able to afford a school that they otherwise could attend. Its all well and good to get into Harvard but if you can’t afford it, then you can’t go. It is just the way it is.
I would argue that it should be important to most everyone. As a high net worth family we had serious discussions about the cost and value of an undergraduate degree. Just because we could/can afford a full-pay Ivy education without sacrificing our lifestyle, doesn’t mean it makes the most sense.
I have seen this played out in our fairly affluent community. There are some willing to place themselves in fairly precarious financial positions with the hope it will translate in “getting ahead”. Unfortunately, from what I have observed all too often, it hasn’t necessarily played out as expected. As we told our children, hope is not a strategy.
also for our first trip on the college carousel, we chose the direct-admit Nursing program at our local community college, to be followed by one year at local directional to finish RN-to-BSN. so although Duke and community college may seem like opposite ends of the spectrum, I am very pleased with how things are turning out since each seemed to be the right fit for each of our kids.
It is hard to study nanotechnology at a college with no facilities, faculty or labs. It is hard to study archaeology at a college whose faculty do not participate in any field work. It is hard to study art history at a college with two professors in that department- one of whom is on maternity leave during your sophomore year. It is hard to study mechanical engineering at a college which has generic “engineering studies” major, but no research opportunities or hands-on labs.
Itsgettingreal- you are absolutely correct that a student can stretch him or herself anywhere. But many people on CC (and in real life) like to pretend that the world is unicorns and roses. I have a non-flagship state college in my area. It has two very solid programs- one in elementary ed, and one in finance and accounting. Lots of people in my neighborhood try to force a fit for their kids- because it is a good value, and the kid can live at home and take the bus.
That doesn’t mean that it will “stretch” a kid who wants to major in history or Chinese/Asian studies, or computer science, or chemical engineering or urban planning. It will frustrate that kid, because every single “stretch” opportunity will involve oodles of paperwork to get independent studies, do labwork at another institution and find a faculty person willing to sponsor, do summer work elsewhere, and then get credit back at the home institution (which is very prickly about accepting credits earned elsewhere).
It is easy to claim that anyone who cares about rigor, stretching, matching a kid with appropriate academic challenges is an elitist- but unless you want to be a 3rd grade teacher or become a CPA it is very hard to stretch yourself at the local college. The fact that it is a good value financially doesn’t change the quality and depth of the academic offerings, and doesn’t change the composition of the student body which right now (perhaps not down the road, but right now) is comprised of B- /C+ students from high schools in the area. Will some of those students blossom in college? Of course. Will that mean the faculty will immediately start teaching more classes in different disciplines to a more engaged student body? Maybe someday but not today. It is what it is.
For need based kids, money is more important than prestige. Unfortunately prestigious school are the one who have globes of money. Thus more poor kids who are top of the totem pole, chase prestigious college. And thus it a circle. And prestige goes more higher. College can charge more fee from other top students who can afford to full pay. Everyone is happy. College higher more renowned faculty, chase begins once more. Circle of life.