Well, if you primary driver is attending a college where you can commute that is another ball of wax and clearly outside of the fit, rigor, cost trifecta. I believe most parents here are talking about sleep away schools that are not within commuting distance. My kids could have all attended a lower selective university within commuting distance, but did not because their majors were not offered. It’s not really like looking for a needle in a haystack in this digital age. And the universities that do have strong programs - some uber selective, some merely selective, are known for those programs which in and of itself can be defined as prestige and generally those programs are comprised of kids that don’t live down the road. An example might be hospitality…the three most prestigious universities are Cornell, Michigan State and the University of Nevada Las Vegas. A smart kid who was interested in hospitality or hotel management could apply to all three and be set for their career and any of the three would do the trick. Prestige takes many forms but the commuter analogy vs. prestigious is a bit of a stretch. Another example: Geology - best programs are Penn State, University of Michigan, Stanford and University of Arizona. That’s a wide swath between Stanford and Arizona. I bet there is outlier prestigidiosity for almost every major out there.
This site is known to have the “is it worth it” thread every so often. Becomes something of a wash, rinse, repeat type thing. Not sure I can recall having two such discussions going on at the same time. High end college v state honors college is essentially the same discussion that is going on here. Wonder if they will have the same result (like all of the other such threads that have appeared here from time to time)? 
Wonder if there will come a time when such threads don’t appear here regularly? 
One aspect of this discussion that gets very little attention relates to how hard it is these days to get into HYPSMC type schools. Graduates of these schools today may be viewed differently than graduates of these schools a generation or two ago. Posters often make statements such as “I know a guy in my department who went to HYorP and he is no more successful than anyone else in the department.” Besides the fact that everyone can find one such guy, this statement doesn’t address the substantive difference between graduating from HYPSMC 30 years ago and graduating today. Perhaps graduates of these schools today are viewed differently than their predecessors because everyone from hiring managers to graduate schools to the guy on the street know that these graduates did something quite remarkable which was gain admittance into a school with a single digit acceptance rate. Or perhaps not. I don’t know.
The dorms for the local college in my area have a waiting list. Would I pay out of state fees AND dorm/food to send a kid to a third tier state directional? I would not. But other people do and I’m sure they have good reasons to do so.
Every college is commutable from somewhere, so Momofthree- not sure why my point isn’t valid. Not every college works for every kid. Paying the lowest sticker price doesn’t always translate into a good educational value. Just because a kid COULD create a rigorous academic program anywhere doesn’t mean the kid actually can.
@blossom Again, another false dichotomy. You’re talking about fit and fit doesn’t equal prestige. No one is advocating sending a kid to a school that doesn’t offer their major or is lacking in resources.
@blossom I have to agree with blossom on this. Most Honors colleges don’t have too many programs that are very good across the board. Although I have money to send my kid to Stanford as a full pay without too much difficulty, I rather invest the money saved to make more money. So I am very practical about money. However, there is something called spending money when it’s important, such as investing in your kid’s education. Everyone has different attitudes, values and kids with different goals and personalities.
However, we as parents, never applied any pressure to attend top schools and left it up to our kid. He went from freshman who wanted to attend UC Irvine, to a Sophomore who wished he could get into UCLA to a Junior who hoped he could get into Stanford. My kid actually caused me stress as his goal became higher and higher, not the reverse. Our kid often told us he’s so glad that we never put any pressure on him academically. The reason I never put any pressure academically on our kid is I got 2.9 gpa in Ivy college (free for me – I do like free things) and I turned out fine. So for us, our kid is going to a school he wanted to go.
Also, why get hung up about prestigious colleges when realistically, you are not going to get admitted? If you have the things they are looking for and your families are financially needy, you bet your but* that you want to get into top private school which will offer you great financial grants.
We don’t live in an area where people value prestige. I can think of exactly one family locally who I would qualify as possibly “hung up on prestige”, and dad was from a wealthy East Coast family/Mom was Asian. Kids were programmed throughout high school for their eventual landing at Yale. Locals do seem to get excited for the few kids that end up doing sports at Div 1 schools.
My daughter applied widely because finances were a huge issue, and we needed merit or unusually generous need based aid. She needed a school that offered both engineering and Chinese, because both areas of study were high on her list of interests though she wasn’t 100% sure.
Her final four, out of 19 apps, in the two weeks before decisions were due, were Princeton, Dartmouth, Georgia Tech, and a tiny Christian school in Pennsylvania, Messiah College.
She loved the atmosphere at Messiah, and she could run in their Div 3 program. The fit was there. They gave her their highest scholarship, but ultimately could not do enough to make it the most viable financial choice.
She loved the physical environment of Dartmouth. She was raised in the mountains. She was a competitive skier, and could have skied there. They agreed to match Princeton’s financial package. In the end, the specifics of the engineering program and concerns about what might happen with the financial package in future years knocked it off the list for her. I found myself wondering too if the drinking culture there might prove to be uncomfortable for her, but it was not a primary concern.
She was selected for the Stamps program at Georgia Tech, as well as one of the special service living communities. Both opportunities were amazing, and overcame her general dislike for the urban Atlanta campus. The full ride scholarship was far and away the best deal of all the colleges. But there was still the question of what would happen if she decided she wanted a different major. It wasn’t going to be as easy to change at Ga Tech as it would at other schools. Regardless, this was an extremely hard one to turn down.
Ultimately, Princeton was the choice. Prestige was not remotely a concern. Their need based aid put the cost at just a few thousand more than the Ga Tech offer. She would have the first year to make a determination re: major. The suburban setting was preferable to downtown Atlanta for her, though she still mourns the lack of mountains. She isn’t fast enough to run for the school, but there’s an active running club that competes. The longer she is there, the more I come to appreciate the extras that the school offers, that make it more and more of a bargain.
But prestige? In our area, few are particularly impressed.
Sometimes the quest for prestige overcomes logic. I’ve known a couple of kids who really wanted to major in computer science or finance, but ended up in philosophy or anthropology, leading them to struggle finding courses. But, hey, they’ll have a degree from Harvard or Stanford.
I’m back to where I started. Prestige was important to us. In many cases, it is a useful shorthand for rigor, resources, breadth and depth. In many cases, the prestige of the place (measured in multiple ways) correlated nicely with other things we cared about- a highly engaged student body, kids who showed up for class prepared, faculty always looking to push a kid with fellowship opportunities, etc, and a high proportion of full time faculty vs. a skeleton crew of fulltime and a boatload of adjuncts.
This also meant looking at colleges with lots of majors and lots of resources and big endowments. And in some cases (not all) name recognition. And in some cases- more “stretch” opportunities intellectually and artistically then a person could take advantage of even if they had 10 years at college.
So yes, we cared about prestige. I am happy that other families do not have to consider it-- and if it works for their kids- fantastic.
It seems that for you it’s prestige or nothing because you fail to acknowledge that there’s anything in between top schools and the lowest of the low. I didn’t realize prestigious schools were the only ones with high proportion of full time faculty. rolls eyes
I’m not sure I follow. They originally wanted to major in CS or finance, then changed their mind and switched to philosophy or anthropology? Why would they struggle to find courses at Stanford and Harvard? Stanford offers ~150 philosophy courses and a related major, as well as ~150 anthropology classes and related major. Neither is that far from the ~200 courses offered in CS, which is Stanford’s most popular major.
Itsgetting real- I’m not sure what I’ve said sets you off.
Rutgers has phenomenal programs in applied math, philosophy, and political science. One of my kids applied there- it met our criteria for prestige (and rigor, and everything else). If my kid had been interested in mechanical engineering, we’d have pushed Missouri M&T (highly prestigious in that discipline) even if the folks down at the local diner (on either coast) have never heard of it.
Why are you assuming that I’m talking about what you consider “elite” and “the lowest of the low”? The question was asked- did you consider prestige- and I’ve answered yes (too many times). We considered prestige. To us, it was important.
Why are you rolling your eyes? There is a substantial difference between studying philosophy at a U with a top program and one with a bare bones program. If your kid isn’t interested in philosophy- good for you.
@data10 No, they were great students, but did not have the stats to enter those majors (or ECs) so they opted for less competitive majors they could get into, hoping they could transfer into the major they wanted later. I suppose some successfully do transfer, but in the cases I know the kids ended up minoring instead.
Stanford and Harvard do not admit by major. At Stanford most do not choose a major until sophomore or junior year. You can choose any major you like and switch majors as many times as you like, although at some point frequently switching majors delays graduation due to issues with completing course requirements for the major. However, you do need to have some kind of consistency between what fields of study you say interest you in your application and the rest of your application including ECs, courses, awards, essays, interview, etc.
However, limitations on academic offerings and majors exist at prestigious colleges as well. For example, many prestigious colleges do not offer chemical engineering or urban planning, and some do not have very good computer science offerings. History offerings can vary widely in terms of subarea emphasis, including which regions like China or Asia are well covered.
For example, would a student interested in those subjects find Emory University (USNWR #21) to be a good academic fit? Would it necessarily be a better academic fit than a non-flagship state university like San Jose State University?
Some of the most prestigious schools do give applicants an advantage if they chose majors that are among the least popular for that school on their applications if the applicants can demonstrate that interest in their ECs, etc.
I have not heard of philosophy or anthropology being an oversubscribed major that requires competitive admission to get into, especially at a wealthy university like Stanford or Harvard. Even CS at those schools seems to be an open major (though they let the class sizes get huge to accommodate interested students). Harvard does have one limited-access major, visual environmental studies.
I have relatives who went to CA State schools who are successful Engineering Managers (20 yrs +) for Fortune 500 companies. They are in their early 50s completely debt free including their real estate properties. I had a coworker’s S graduated from Harvard with a business degree and found a career as a elementary school teacher. In my opinion, it would be more prudent for a student to attend a UC or decent state school with a STEM or employable major. Choose a college that has a reputable/quality programs your kid might be interested in, right fit and good value. Prestige plays a very small part in a very long career path. Experience and work performance are more important than where you got your degree. Tim Cook (CEO of Apple) got his undergraduate degree in Engineering from Auburn University. Satya Nadella (CEO of Microsoft) got his undergraduate degree from a university in India. We live in a digital world, choose wisely.
^Both Tim Cook and Nadella have MBAs from Duke and UChicago, not exactly un-prestigious schools.
We just want our kids to get into the in-state flagship for low cost and quality education. D1 only applied a couple reach schools. She got accepted by one of the reach schools but chose not to attend as the in-state flagship is just a good in engineering anyway and slightly cheaper. D2 just got accepted by the same in-state flagship but applied RD to 4 reach schools. At the end, the cost would be the determining factor. If a school does not fit, we would not even apply.