<p>^^ They truly believe they won't get caught. My son was (hopefully I can write "was") that way with speeding. We talked about how harsh a particular state was about enforcing the speed limit, and he exceeded it (a lot) anyway! He claimed to be not paying attention- it was very late at night, no cars around etc. (except for the police officer, of course), but the bottom line was that the traffic laws did not apply to HIM!! I'm hoping after a big legal bill and a night in jail he feels differently.</p>
<p>Not saying that OP's D was snorting a stimulant, but I know that kids DO crush and snort Adderall to get high. And that this incident occured at the end of senior year (same time of year as prom and other big social events) makes partying at least as plausable an explanation as studying for finals.</p>
<p>As for those who ussed drugs in their youth who are now responsible, wage earning, productive members of society - - they were lucky. One misstep w/ drugs/alcohol and the consequences can be fatal.</p>
<p>Chedva I really like your post #267, it explains my position exactly. Thanks for stating it so clearly. </p>
<p>MOWC I agree 7th graders consuming ETOH is horrible but it IMO doesnt lessen the significants of a 15-16 y/o drinking.</p>
<p>What does ETOH stand for? I've seen it on several threads.</p>
<p>ETOH=alcohol</p>
<p>"My biggest concern is what ADad stated above- she took this incredible risk knowing the school was serious about this stuff.
I wonder if this is part of being a teen and brain development,"</p>
<p>Yes, it is. That's why if a teen's brain isn't developed enough to have good judgment, the teen may not be ready to go away to college. Staying home an additional year or two may allow the development that would allow the teen to go off and be capable of making better decisions.</p>
<p>NSM ^^</p>
<p>If most or all teenager's brains are not fully developed at age 18 then I guess we should extend high school another two years for everybody, not allow anyone out of the nest until they are 20, forbid 16 year olds from driving at all, still try 19 year olds as juveniles, and raise the age of majority for all "adult" decisions, including voting, getting married, entering into contracts, and joining the military, to age 20.</p>
<p>ShallWeGo, you're confusing across-the-board standards with individual standards. A parent's job is to look out for their individual child. If that particular child isn't ready to make good decisions at 18, the parent may consider keeping them at home a little while longer. That's a completely different issue from changing rules that apply to everybody as far as driving, voting, etc.</p>
<p>You know, I really don't think it would be all that awful if the age to drive were raised to 18. Ditto raising the age for getting married to 20. And I REALLY think that the raising the cut off age for being tried as a juvenile to 21 is a wonderful idea.</p>
<p>Some kids at 18 are ready to be on their own and some aren't. I think the problem is more that we in his country sometimes give mixes signals to kids. Frankly I tell my boys not to get married until they are 30. My parents kept my sister home and sent her to a local college for 2 years. She then transferred to one of the best engineering schools in the country and went on to a great career that continues today breaking all kinds of ground (as a woman). I was already in college during this time period so I have no idea what transpired in my family to make my parents do that...but they did. When I asked my 80+ year old mom why that decision as I was preparing to send off my son, who is no angel, she replied, "Your sister made some very immature decisions her senior year that led your father and I to believe that she needed an additional two years of our guidance." OK, got it, Mom. My parents were tough as nails about everything but sometimes I think we (my husband and I) are not tough enough - sort of the rebound effect from our parents keeping us on a short leash.</p>
<p>No, we do not know the particulars of this case, and at this point neither did the OP. I think he wanted to preserve whatever options he could which had to be done immediately. There is time, and it will take time to come up with the extent of the problem and the best solution for the young lady. But any options lost can no longer be the solution, so I think that keeping options open was a priority. </p>
<p>I have two kids who are in their 20's now and have seen them and their kids go through a lot of painful times. Many of them abused drugs, much, much more than the OP's daughter. They are all doing fine now. The same with many of the kids who were using drugs in my time. Yes, there are those who truly crashed and burned, and that is the danger that we have to always watch for. However, for the most part, the agonies of the drug use are what these kids put their families and themselves through when they were caught and punished, those who were in that situation. In many cases, the punishments were more harmful than the crimes themselves. I wish I could get through these kids' heads how much damage they are doing to their parents alone, stress wise, health wise, emotion wise, psychologically. The hurt they are causing. I don't think they understand that . They just might understand the cost of the attorney, court costs, time in court and counseling, loss of financial aid and college opportunities when that occurs, but by then it is too late. But in my experience, it is usually the parents who take this hit.<br>
I don't have any answer to this. I understand the highschools have to keep the drugs out, even as they know that the drugs are in there. Therefore the no tolerance rules. But it does not seem the truly punitive punishments seem to deter. IT seems hypocritical that in a few months, the very college that may be keeping a kid out for such a deed would be turning a blind eye to that activity. I wish I had answers for the situation. I don't think it is a one size fits all situation, so such a solution does not exist. I don't think there is a good solution either.</p>
<p>Why do you assume the college would turn a blind eye to a substance abuse issue?</p>
<p>D just completed her first year of collge. Part of orientation was devoted to the school's drug/alcohol policy. I trust that this was not a sham and that the school will treat infractions appropriately - - not the way a high school would, but certainly not turn a blind eye.</p>
<p>^^ Some schools do. Most do not. They simply can't police all the kids. They pretty much HAVE to do the alcohol and drug programs for incoming students. It is now the "standard of care". They DO mean it- there is a huge concern about the level of substance abuse and no college is going to really ignore it. However, just as with corporate policies ("don't talk on your company phone while you are driving"), how do you really police this? Some dorm RAs will bust dorm drinkers, some will join the party.</p>
<p>Given the fact that BADad's daughter's conduct can fairly be characterized as "impulsive".....
and given the likelihood that her rationale for using the stimulant medication would be to help her keep focused while studying......</p>
<p>I'm thinking that the main thing that separates her from the kids with ADHD whose need for medication is being vigorously defended by their parents over on the other thread in the Parent Cafe is simply a formal diagnosis.</p>
<p>I mean... I find the whole issue somewhat hypocritical, especially since BADad's daughter very likely purchased her pills from some classmate who has a prescription. Where are the lines drawn? Any teenager who goes to a doctor complaining of difficulty sustaining focus in school is very likely to be granted the protection of a legal prescription to a drug that he/she will be encouraged to take on a regular, daily basis ..... but the kid who only feels the need for the extra boost of medication when the going gets particularly tough (studying for finals, finishing up end-of-term papers) and self-medicates is branded as a pariah even though her usage is sporadic and far less in terms of overall dosage and frequency than the kid with the prescription. </p>
<p>Of course, the ultimate irony in this situation would be if BADad's efforts to get the daughter into counseling were to result in disclosure of personal difficulties that do warrant a diagnosis and subsequent prescription .... and who knows? Maybe the d. does have long standing problems that fit neatly within the diagnostic category for ADHD. See What</a> are the Different Types of ADHD? - Hyperactive-Impulsive, Inattentive ADHD Information</p>
<p>I wonder how many kids at the school that BADad's daughter attended are taking the same medications that got her expelled, under the aegis of a doctor's recommendation? </p>
<p>I don't doubt that it is valuable for the school administration to be alert to this and for BADad to take a long, hard look at the situation and be open to the possibility that his daughter may indeed have some serious problems, but overall I am stunned by the hypocrisy of zero-tolerance, random drug testing for common pharmaceuticals that are typically prescribed at the drop of a hat for psychological/behavioral conditions with nebulous and ever-expanding diagnostic criteria, usually based on self-reported symptoms.</p>
<p>nyc: Are you being sarcastic, or not? "I trust that this was not a sham." No, at most schools the orientation session on the drug and alchohol policy is not a sham. It's a real orientation session. Apart from that, the policies tend to be a sham. Or, better put, the policies are real, but with the proviso "only when something is brought to the attention of high-ranking university officials in a manner so plain that they cannot claim ignorance." E.g., a student goes into a coma and is treated for an overdose at the university hospital. Or university police enter a room for some other reason and see commercial quantities of drugs, and someone writes a report.</p>
<p>There ARE some schools that seem to have honest-to-god rules. A friend of my daughter's was expelled from a "dry" LAC for chronic but unsensational marijuana use. But that was the exception, not the rule. At one college I visited, the tour guide faithfully rattled off the no-substances residential policy, while showing us a "model" (furnished, but not occupied) room in a real dorm, where the unmistakeable odor of baked-in pot smoke was absolutely overwhelming. There was practically no intersection between the language and the reality.</p>
<p>It is hypocritical on many fronts, calmom. But prescription drugs are illegal to take if you do not have a prescription for them. Schools are very specific about their meds policies. Heck, in the schools here, your kid is not supposed to even carry an aspirin on him. I remember reading about Al Gore's son who was picked up with prescription drugs that were not prescribed to him and is being charged with possession of them along with the illegal substances.</p>
<p>NYC, if you walk around the dorms of most colleges during weekends, or mosey around where the parties are being held, you can't help but smell the rock concert air. You can also see kids drinking. I've seen dorm rooms decorated with empty cans/bottles of alcohol. Few college police this. If a kid is truly "in your face" about it, or does something destructive, he can get into trouble, but most drinking/drugs are tolerated. Now I am not talking about Bob Jones University. But even some schools with a strong Christian code are not looking for trouble.</p>
<p>^^^^ Our school district does (or used to do) a 'drug house' for middle schoolers every couple of years that includes scenarios ans talks by police explaining what is and is not legal. The fact that prescription drugs become illegal substances when they are not your prescriptions was one of the things they emphasized.</p>
<p>I just think that when it comes down to it, there are some kids (and adults) who simply have a greater degree of sophistication when it comes to the ability to secure prescriptions. In fact, it would not surprise me at all if there are many kids who, aware of the $$ available if they sell their pills, feign or exaggerate symptoms in order to get a prescription that they do not use regularly. I mean, how hard would it be for a college student to visit a doctor and get a 30-day supply of Ritalin or Adderall and then simply sell off the pills rather than using them, and then go in again after 30 days for a refill?</p>
<p>
[quote]
What does ETOH stand for? I've seen it on several threads.
[/quote]
It should be "EtOH" for ethyl alcohol.</p>