<p>I am not minimizing the incident. I do have trouble seeing an alcohol violation at 15-16 as indicative of a substance-abuse problem. We have been over the whole teenage drinking thing ad nauseum on this forum, but the fact is that many (perhaps even MOST) 16 year olds have experimented with alcohol or at least been at a party where it was available. What it shows is stupidity and a reckless disregard for KNOWN consequences. I think the use of prescription stimulants is a big problem for this girl and for many kids. Again, it is risky and shows reckless disregard for VERY serious consequences. It MIGHT be evidence of a larger substance-abuse problem, but we do not know that right now and that is why I don't like to characterize it as "doing drugs" and more than getting caught at a party where there is beer means the kid has an alcohol problem.</p>
<p>Katlia wrote, "My thought is that your D has already learned a bitter lesson."</p>
<p>Actually, according to his posts, it seems his daughter has <em>not</em> accepted responsibility for her actions; they are still working on that. </p>
<p>MOWC, We're just going to have to disagree. This child was caught using prescription stimulants which, by definition, is a substance-abuse problem. Whether she does it every day, every week, or a few times a year when the pressure is on needs to be hammered out between her and a counselor. But the fact that she has a history of using alcohol/ drugs illegally and is not repentant are just the facts. </p>
<p>If she were my daughter, she wouldn't be anywhere near a college for awhile-- not as punishment but because she needs to be much more responsible. Using drugs/ alcohol unwisely puts college women at risk for rape. But, then again, I'm not sure I would send my kid away if they had just been busted drinking beer at a high school party either. To <em>me</em>, going away to college is a reward, not a given. If I thougt my child had such bad judgement that he/ she would involve himself in illegal activity, I would have him/her live at home and attend college locally. </p>
<p>I would be in anguish if this were my daughter. I am sure this family is. I completely understand trying to minimize damages and my prayers are with this family. I just want to emphasize that this may be all the notice many parents get of a problem which puts their kid in danger.</p>
<p>"If she were my daughter, she wouldn't be anywhere near a college for awhile-- not as punishment but because she needs to be much more responsible. Using drugs/ alcohol unwisely puts college women at risk for rape. But, then again, I'm not sure I would send my kid away if they had just been busted drinking beer at a high school party either. To <em>me</em>, going away to college is a reward, not a given. If I thougt my child had such bad judgement that he/ she would involve himself in illegal activity, I would have him/her live at home and attend college locally. "</p>
<p>I agree with this. D also would be working and taking out loans to help pay for that college, which more than likely would be a community college because that's what the student could get admitted to at this late date.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be trying to save my kid's scholarships or save my kid from getting kicked out of h.s.</p>
<p>I think it's very important that students be held responsible for their behavior. If this occurs at a young age, IMO it's far less likely that the young person will get into more serious problems as they get older.</p>
<p>Loving one's child and hoping for the best for them doesn't mean not holding them accountable for their bad decisions. Sometimes the best thing that we can do for our kids is continuing to love them while they get the natural consequences of their bad decisions.</p>
<p>Saying this as the mother of sons, who both have made some bad decisions. Through painful experience, I've found it's better to have them feel the natural consequences than to try to protect them from their own decisions.</p>
<p>Some natural consequences are more palatable than others, and some of us have stronger stomaches than others. I have seen kids get lamblasted and truly hurt for a long, long time for some stupid thing that just might have been resolved more favorably had the parent helped. It's not always the best thing to let them take the natural consequences. They are not always just or fair. Not to say that, in this case, the natural consequences are not the best thing. I think for right now the OP wants to keep options open. He may well decide that his D should stay local, work and go to rehab next year, if the extent of the problem so warrants. However, it could be an unfortunate slip of judgment that is not representative of the young lady. I've seen plenty of kids "get away" with things and go on to be successful, wonderful, responsible citizens. I've also seen some whose natural consequences have demoralized the child and family terribly, and with the loss of momentum resulted in tough outcomes. It goes the other way as well. It really depends on the particulars of the situation to which we are not privy.</p>
<p>There are two issues here. First, what to do about the high school career and college. Second, is the girl's record indicative of a substance usage problem larger than general high school cluelessness. I'd like to address the second issue, because I do not believe that one episode of drinking or even one episode of stimulant use means that this kid is headed on the road to hell.</p>
<p>Some of us distinguish between "recreational or occasional use of substances to alter consciousness" and "addiction or behaviours that will cause adverse life consequences." Some do not.</p>
<p>I did drugs in high school. Nothing wildly addictive, but I did them regularly on weekends when they didn't interfere with homework. And it was not a problem to stop when I got out of college. Now, as an adult, I have one or two glasses of wine a night. I think of it as self-medication. I'm an anxious person. This is the best remedy. My relationships are not affected, my career is not affected, I do not engage in any societally destructive acts. I make sure to contain the behaviour.</p>
<p>So my attitude about a kid getting caught drinking once, and getting caught using pharmaceuticals once is likely to be quite different from the attitude of a parent who is a teetotaler. I strongly believe that this is one of those areas where different people can have different opinions. From the outside you all might find me to be a sinner, someone living a life of dissolution. But, I contribute to society and act responsibly.</p>
<p>There are multiple truths here, that's all I'm saying. Not that the problem should be ignored, it shouldn't. But, there is in my opinion absolutely no way of knowing if this is a serious issue requiring counselors etc. Especially depending on the crowd she hangs with.</p>
<p>My admittedly controversial $0.02.</p>
<p>I agree with MomofWildChild We don't know the scoop of the OP D's use. I don't see using a stimulant at exam time as confirmation of a drug problem. I see it as stupid but not a reason to haul her to rehab.
The girl could very well have a drug problem and using stimulants often along with other drugs. That is something her parents are going to have to determine. I do know that often the child will lie about the amount of use.
Or also why she was using them. To study longer? To get high? or as is often the case to get skinny.
Also can the drug test tell if the positive is from stimulants or Meth?</p>
<p>Alumother, I agree with you for the most part (I'm not a teetotaller nor was I in high school). I think where you and I may differ is on the meaning of the girl "getting caught". To me, that's a red flag that there may be a deeper problem - not that there is a deeper problem. I think it is highly unlikely that she got caught the first time she used the drug in question, and I would need more information as a parent before making any pronouncements.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are multiple truths here, that's all I'm saying. Not that the problem should be ignored, it shouldn't. But, there is in my opinion absolutely no way of knowing if this is a serious issue requiring counselors etc. Especially depending on the crowd she hangs with.
[/quote]
With this, I wholeheartedly agree. I've just seen too many parents assume that it's not a problem because the kid says its not a problem, and the parents think, "Oh, no, not my kid." When it comes to a possible drug problem, one that oftentimes is hidden from parents, I would err on the side of caution. This is one case in which "guilty until proven innocent" (by the parents, not necessarily the school) may be appropriate.</p>
<p>I agree that kids should experience the consequences of their actions, but, in my view, this does not mean letting the chips fall where they may. It seems that in this case, there is some randomness, or even arbitrariness (is that a word?) in that apparently several kids were using the drug but only one was tested and caught. Taking a larger view, an unfortunately large proportion of HS students experiment with drugs or alcohol, and most escape without experiencing the dire consequences that BADad is worrying about now. I do know that in S1's grade at our school, the "popular" group of kids have been using alcohol for at least 3 years (they are now in 9th grade). These are the top students, the athletes, the leaders in the school. S1 does not socialize with these kids, and I do not see him trying drugs or alcohol. This thread has been eye-opening, and I will certainly be on the alert, in case I am wrong. S2, now 9, I can see being right in the middle of the "popular" group, doing whatever it takes to keep his friends. Obviously, we will do everything we can to prevent this. But I think the OP is absolutely right in trying to control, as much as possible, the nature and severity of the consequences that his daughter experiences.</p>
<p>I guess I'm softer than many of you. </p>
<p>I think that an 18 year old's dumb move or mistake -- if this was a mistake, rather than the culmination of a a pattern of drug abuse -- shouldn't be something she pays for for years to come. I think "making sure she wouldn't be anywhere near a college" qualifies as overly harsh punishment. You put the kid on a short leash, give her the lecture of her life, possibly give her extra chores or responsibilities over the summer (say, mow the school's lawn through the end of August?;)) But you let her move on. In my view -- I know many of you don't agree -- that's the compassionate adult thing to do considering none of us is perfect and most of us have done a dumb thing or two as teenagers.</p>
<p>Even the best kids make occasionally stupid choices and when you throw in some bad luck to mix, you can get a pretty terrible consequence. I prefer having the flexibility to dole out the consequences to a degree, not have them dictated by a school or court if at all possible. It may well be that this is a serious problem with serious measures needed, but then, again, it may not be. </p>
<p>A few years ago my H's cousins had a problem with their son who was caught vandalizing, drinking, drugs right before graduation. The parents felt that he should take the natural consequences of his actions. I offered help and advice as we had had some issues the year before, and was familiar with the lay of the that land. They politely demurred, and I found out later felt good about it as they felt we had intervened too much and helped our son out too much in his travails. The other kids who were involved in the cousin's episode had parents who lawyered up and pled not guilty and fought the system and natural consequences. Our cousin plead guilty and admitted all. Guess who got the whole danged thing blamed on him, and a terrible penalty to boot? The school, courts, judge all should have seen that it was not a one kid show, but they did not care. They swiftly and severely punished our cousin, and the other kids who dragged out the proceedings, ended up with a slap on the wrists. They are all in college and doing well, whereas our cousin has a menial job, and can get no financial aid, nor would the selective state U take him. Can't get insurance for driving a car. He is truly in a rut, and very bitter about it. I think the parents were appalled at how this all panned out and bitter as well. Things do not always come out fairly in a natural process, and it is better to have some control in it so it does not lash back at you more severely than deserved.</p>
<p>What would it take to raise concerns about a pattern? This is a student who had a substance infraction in 10th grade and who now has gotten herself kicked out of high school for a substance infraction.</p>
<p>I think we can say, pretty conclusively, that substance abuse IS causing problems in this student's life. To ignore those signs would be irresponsible.</p>
<p>I am going to respectfully disagree with Mom60 with regards to the need for rehab.</p>
<p>I'm not going to go into what constitutes rehab, but when you have a young lady who has had her "Oops!" incident with alcohol a couple of years ago and then follows it up with another incident with a potentially more dangerous substance, it shows poor decision making with regards to her personal health and safety.</p>
<p>Whether the reason is staying up to cram for exams (seems sensless for a senior whose grades are far from failing from the tone of the OP) or some stress relief or to fit in with a crowd, it seems that she has taken an unnecessary risk in her self-medicating, knowing full well that there were potential consequences. That by itself would tell me that she needs to understand why she is making poor choices, which is a major component of rehab.</p>
<p>The fact that rehab has become the place for those way beyond the pale in their substance abuse shouldn't minimize its potential to help those who haven't quite destroyed their lives. I would look at this as preventative maintenance, if nothing else.</p>
<p>Yes, often people with these behaviors won't change until they have a life altering event, but I don't think I could live with myself knowing that I didn't do everything in my power to help my child. Heaven forbid what may occur the 3rd time and thinking that I let go there.</p>
<p>There is a need for rehab both for the daughter and the parents - they need to know that they are doing everything possible so that their child stops making these mistakes.</p>
<p>Ultimately, though the daughter will have to want to change herself. She needs to know that there is a consequence for her behavior (why I suggested the extra year before college) and accept that she has to fix herself because she wants to live better and that she needs to take the opportunity given to her to do just that.</p>
<p>Has anybody else noticed? We live in a country that applies the most severe penalties for infractions. There seems to be no balance between the seriousness of the infraction and severity of the punishment. We have decided to make "an example" of everyone that commits an infraction.</p>
<p>Sorry for your D's troubles BayDad.</p>
<p>I have noticed toblin. We love to punish people. We have more draconian sentences, more jails and more people in them than any western nation.</p>
<p>I am not saying that the parent should ignore those signs. In fact he will be getting his face rubbed in them. But before he jumps onto the band wagon of natural consequences, it would be wise to have some choices in hand. </p>
<p>I've seen kids make isolated mistakes over a period of time that are not part of a behavior pattern. Sometimes those kids get caught more because they are not used to dodging risky bullets. I think for right now, having more options is better than less. </p>
<p>I know parents who sorrowfully had to have their child give up wonderful college plans because things came up that made it not in the child or family's best interest pursue that route. A woman I knew very well, had to decide to keep her ivybound daughter home when it became clear that her anorexia was not under control. That decision may have saved her life. </p>
<p>From the two episodes given, I would not jump to the substance abuse conclusion. I would be more concerned about the fact that there is a disregard for rules and not a heavy weighing of possible consequences. That seems to me to be more of the issue. The drinking seems to be something done for social reasons, and the med is for study purposes. Not really in the same category for the most part, except the disregard for rules.</p>
<p>Hey, I'm not on that wagon, guys. In fact most parents I know are not. But when you are talking about high schools, crowd control is paramount in their goals, and when it comes to drugs there is often a no tolerance rule.</p>
<p>Clarifying my posts: I don't think the parent should kick the student out in the street. At the same time, I don't think the parent should be trying to save the student's being able to graduate from that high school and keep her college scholarship.</p>
<p>The student is the one who made the boneheaded decision to use drugs, and the student should be responsible for any fight to retain her scholarship/high school diploma. </p>
<p>The parent, meanwhile, should continue loving the student and offering support, which could be listening to the student, having the student talk to a counselor, providing housing for the student if the student ends up having to go to a community college in her hometown. If the student loses her scholarship, the student, not the parent should be responsible for making up the difference in costs, and if that means that the student has to live at home and go to college locally, so be it.</p>
<p>Frankly, the student is very lucky that she's facing only consequences that are related to schooling. She's not facing legal consequences, which would have far more serious repercussions.</p>
<p>The fact that lots of students at the h.s. use drugs and didn't get caught has to me no bearing on the fact that the OP's D did use drugs and got caught. Probably most people who commit crimes don't get caught, but that doesn't mean that those who are caught -- even first time offenders -- shouldn't be punished.</p>
<p>I'd rather have my kid feel the painful consequences of being kicked out of school senior year and losing a scholarship than end up a dead college graduate like the young woman described below, an FSU grad, who was killed after agreeing to be a drug informant in order to avoid a jail sentence for drug use.</p>
<p>Apparently college students and graduates are the type of drug offenders that police use in dangerous sting operations. </p>
<p>"Police say 23-year-old Rachel Morningstar Hoffman's body was found early Friday in rural Taylor County, southeast of Tallahassee, after a two-day search. The Pinellas County woman, a graduate of Countryside High School in Clearwater, was cooperating with the narcotics squad in an investigation when she disappeared Wednesday.
Police say she died after violating protocol while serving as a confidential informant.
Her attorney says police should have spoken with him before allowing Hoffman to serve as an informant.
And her friends and family say she wasn't the kind of person who should have been asked to help build a case against dangerous people.
Hoffman agreed to work with police after being arrested on several drug charges, including possession of more than 20 grams of marijuana and possession with intent to sell ecstasy, police spokesman David McCranie said."
Slain</a> Drug Informant's Mom Thinks 'Death Will Make History'</p>
<p>" the new drug made by the makers of Adderall (can't recall the name)"</p>
<p>Vyvanse</p>
<p>Drug rep's like to call it "smoother" ; metaphor for not being able to "feel it".</p>
<p>"It MIGHT be evidence of a larger substance-abuse problem, but we do not know that right now and that is why I don't like to characterize it as "doing drugs" and more than getting caught at a party where there is beer means the kid has an alcohol problem."</p>
<p>Didn't the dad indicate on either this thread or the other that it wasn't a one-shot deal?</p>
<p>For absolutely no logical reason, I'd move mountains to make sure that my kid graduated from high school. I don't know what I'd do about college, but for me, forgoing the high school diploma is something I could not live with.</p>