<p>Just to clarify, I think it's entirely appropriate to become a lawyered-up harda.ss if things at the first meeting don't go well. But, at the first mtg, I think a little contrition could go a long way. I always try to play nice first ... but do let them know you are prepared to raise the stakes.</p>
<p>I was the first to suggest an attorney, and I'm glad that others have seconded that. However, I want to make clear that I would not necessarily bring the attorney to the first meeting with the school. That overstates it: I wouldn't bring the attorney to the first meeting. However, I WOULD, absolutely, positively have a strategy session with the attorney before the first meeting with the school, to discuss what to say and what positions to take.</p>
<p>By the way, unless the school administration are morons, if you do that you won't even have to say out loud that you have consulted an attorney. The way you approach the meeting will make it clear. I would not even hint at litigation, or anything like that -- just make it clear that, while being conciliatory and respectful of the school, you are paying close attention to all options, and you hope everything can get resolved quickly and reasonably (which means some major hurt on your daughter, no question).</p>
<p>Somewhere down the road, perhaps figure out with your D whether she took other students' prescribed stimulants for recreational purpose or to stay awake to study for exams. </p>
<p>As a public service announcement to other parents: if your kid has such prescriptions, read them the riot act about not giving (or selling!) them to friends. If, for example, Ritalin or Adderal is prescribed for ADHD, the person receiving the 'script needs it to function. The borrower (whose brain chemistry doesn't require it for a normal day) experiences it as a rush, or lots of caffeine. In l960's exam time in the dorms kids took "speed" as if it were an efficient way to down 4 cups of coffee as they studied. </p>
<p>Some kids with ADHD have monthly prescriptions for daily doses. As they mature, some begin to just take them as needed, skipping some days, so they have leftover pills to "share" by month's end. They are controlled substances for a reason: they're needed by the subscriber but react differently to someone without the brain chemistry structure of ADHD. </p>
<p>So there's some enabling going on by other students here, if they have prescription drugs. That doesn't take away the borrower's responsibility of choice, but I think as a parent community we should be reading our kids the riot act if they have prescriptions NOT to share them at college dorms during exam time. I hear it's a big swap scene in some locations.</p>
<p>Good luck to OP with the upcoming meeting. Sometimes I think: what's the worst that could happen here, and can I deal with it? That helps me through, because as long as nobody's actual, physical Life is at stake, there's always hope for rebounds, even if they take years, money, time and effort to occur. You will all get through this. Good luck.</p>
<p>Have no idea on the OP question, unfortunately, but will toss out here another situation for parents (and their children) to beware...</p>
<p>In our county, a public high school trip to Europe caused major problems for many families a few years back. Students under 21 are not to drink alcohol, and might have even signed something with the school stating that they wouldn't (can't recall for certain here), but a teacher/chaperone for the trip told the students that since they were of age to drink in whatever country they were in on that trip, it was okay for them to consume alcohol while there if they wished. Some did, and somehow it got out to others who felt this was illegal and the high school suspended the students who were known to have consumed alcohol on the trip...I never heard the end result (whether they were allowed to graduate, whether colleges rescinded admissions or scholarships, etc.). Frankly, I think it was nutty for the students to be penalized if they were not breaking the law in the country they were in (as they weren't) and had the permission of a teacher on the trip (can't recall what happened to that teacher, either, but it likely wasn't good), but even if things got cleared up in time, they had to have gone through hardship during the suspension and fight to have their names stop being smeared as law breakers or whatever. So let your children know that even with a teacher's permission, sometimes certain acts can result in trouble.</p>
<p>There are several ways kids can get the stimulants.
[quote]
A highly respected teacher was videotaped stealing methylphenidate from the nurse's office the evening of an awards ceremony that was honoring him as "teacher of the year."
In another incident, a school nurse who was responsible for safeguarding student medications, stole the children's methylphenidate for her own use.
In a school that required students to provide a doctor's prescription for proof of medication need, the principal was discovered taking the methylphenidate prescriptions, forging his name and filling them in pharmacies throughout the state for his own personal use.
Students have been discovered taking medication from a teacher's desk where medication was being stored.
A student who left home with a month's supply of medication, arrived at school with only six tablets, having distributed the others to friends on the bus on the way to school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>source: Extent</a> of Problem</p>
<p>I'm no lawyer. Others on this thread are. You've gotten some good advice. </p>
<p>Is the OP in California? Recently I learned that the ACLU in California is pursuing the issue of public university laws applying to private universities re: First Amendment rights of students. I have no idea if you will ever get to the point of your lawyer identifying any civil liberties violations in your D's situation, but if you do, have the lawyer inquire at ACLU. </p>
<p>I just happened to learn this re: a fraternity at a private college in California encountered some issues, and believe-it-or-not, the ACLU helped the situation and was interested in it BECAUSE it had to do with something that would have been unacceptable at a Cal state university was being practiced at a private state university. No laws were broken but it was a First Amendment (free speech) matter. All was resolved amicably at meetings, not in court.</p>
<p>In other words, if there's some double-standard between what a public v. private school is doing, it is sometimes a matter of constitutional rights. In California there's an issue of trying to apply public standards to private institutions. </p>
<p>Farfetched, I realize; just an idea to mention to a lawyer in consultation.</p>
<p>JHS mentioned the right time-and-place for lawyerly presence, a few posts above.</p>
<p>I've seen successful resolutions where there was a lawyer advising someone with a strategic approach, but not present, especially not at a first meeting. Having legal "counsel" is just that, and it can be invisible to the other party at a first encounter. Smart as you sound on this forum, I'm sure they'd figure you know how to get legal help. This gives the chance to be gentlemanly in the first meeting, following phone advice from a lawyer. No lawyer needs to sit at an opening meeting; it does change the chemistry. But you'll do better with legal counsel by phone
prior to a first meeting, and readiness for other letters or backup by a lawyer later if necessary. The point is they know you have representation, or you speak more intelligently because, in your mind, you've been counseled and know you have the option of in-person representation at a later day, if it all "goes south" as some say.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I sadly acknowledge the transition to an adversarial relationship between our family and what was formerly a bright shining place our D's life.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Aw, BayAreaDad. I am so sorry for your pain. These children of ours don't know how much they hold in their hands in terms of our peace of mind and even happiness. I wish you the best of luck this week and will pray for the best outcome for your D, you and her mom and the school. One thing to consider, no matter how awful this seems or gets now, you may find that down the road the purpose becomes clear. As bad as this is, your D did not overdose or crash her car into a tree and die due to driving under the influence. She did not hurt someone else irrevocably. She can and will recover from this mistake. Had she not been caught now and given this difficult life lesson, you might not have been able to say that. This may become an event that while unwanted and entirely too stressful and expensive, you later give thanks for. I sure hope so. Best wishes to you.</p>
<p>I know that this situation is causing you and your family a lot of heartache but what happened here might just be a godsend. Imagine your heartache if your daughter goes away to school and you get a call in the middle of the night that she overdosed.I hope you understand that getting her scholarship to stand is far less important then making sure she is drug-free and able to handle herself in a responsible fashion.Maybe a gap year is in order. I wish you all the best and do realize that this could happen to any one of us</p>
<p>Thank you for your thoughtful response, BayAreaDad.</p>
<p>I've been reading more and thinking some more and have come up with a cautious plan to dealing with the school...</p>
<p>Considering that IIRC, the "issue" came to light Friday, I believe that your position Monday is that "I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, still." This is vague enough and not challenging to the school, allowing them to feel a position of control in Monday's discussion. I think the lawyer in attendance on Monday is not going to be helpful. This should be a listening session on your part.</p>
<p>What you need to find out Monday is what the school is willing to offer. If there is a willingness on the part of the school to find a workable solution it would seem that lawyers in the school may not be necessary. You should lay out your priorities - 1) Making sure your daughter is of sound health; 2) Making sure your daughter's HS accomplishment is not unnecessarily destroyed. 3) Preserving her college admissions/scholarship opportunities - In that order. BTW, this meeting should be between you and the school officials. You should request that your daughter not be present during this discussion.</p>
<p>Considering that the "late in the year drug test" may be more about preserving the school's image more than getting children help as has been suggested above, if you make a suggestion, it should be in keeping with making the school look like it is tough on drugs.</p>
<p>In that light, my earlier suggestion of off-site proctored exams followed by the completion of a serious substance abuse counseling session in exchange for conversion of the expulsion to a suspension with final grades awarded should be amended to include a confidentiality statement on your part. That is, you should agree not to disclose this arrangement, giving the school the appearance (to the returning students) that it successfully removed a student found to be using a controlled substance. In effect, they have gotten what they desire from their "late year random drug test", while you have gotten what you want - rehab to address your daughter's behavior and a high school diploma with earned grades intact.</p>
<p>I would still suggest deferring college admission for a year whether you use it for a PG year or a Gap year (with an extended rehab?). I think it sends the right message to your daughter that there IS a consequence (another year of supervision) to her behavior. To do otherwise might suggest to her that "Daddy will get me off the hook". Don't know if she is of that thinking, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention it.</p>
<p>Now if you go in Monday and find that they are all about throwing your daughter under the bus, I would listen and ask for an appointment to talk some more on Wednesday, when you bring in your lawyer presenting the same offer on paper with the subtle hint that they will spend a couple of years tuition defending their position if they do not accept today and schedule her proctored exam. I think that might get the deal done. And if nothing else, you know exactly where you stand in very short order.</p>
<p>You are doing a great job here with so much to process in such a short time. Keep the faith.</p>
<p>BayAreaDad --</p>
<p>I've thought about you and your daughter on and off all weekend. I'm not an expert in much of anything, and so am very hesitant about sending this. Of course your immediate concern is the school. I do think the two of you will be able to reach some accommodation. It may not make you entirely happy, it may not be "fair", it may be the lesser of several evils, and it certainly won't be how you envisioned the end to your daughter's high school days, but it will allow her, in some way, to move on. There will be a resolution to one of the problems. The other problem is - your daughter.</p>
<p>I have read and reread your posts, and seen nothing that indicates you're anything but a good, loving father, who wants to do what is best and what is right for his daughter. It says a lot about you that through all the tumult, uncertainty, revelations, and, I suspect, tears, you still have had enough composure to look at the situation, seek help, weigh options, and begin to develop a plan. I'm not sure I would have been able to do the same. But what also comes through in your posts is that your daughter has acted in ways that raise some red flags. It seems what now needs to also be done is determine the severity of her problems. Maybe they were isolated episodes of indiscretion, immaturity, or an inability to say no when everyone around her was saying yes; she wouldn't be the first teenager who acted without thinking through the consequences. Or they can be signs of something deeper. I think for your sake, for her mother's, but most importantly for your daughter's, you need to find out which one it is. As parents we're probably least able to emotionally detach ourselves from our children and evaluate their actions. Although you may feel that everything is spinning out of control, there is something you do have, and that is at this moment a certain degree of leverage over your daughter. Only you can resolve this situation; she can't. I'm not advocating you do this, but only offer it as a suggestion - to say to her "I will go to bat for you, but in return you will agree to do this." In your daughter's case "this" is going to see a drug counselor. A good counselor, one who is knowledgeable about teen addiction, one who is compassionate and caring, but also one who knows the signs, and has heard all the excuses, denials, evasions, and rationalizations. will be able to evaluate your daughter, to see if there is indeed a problem, if she understands what it is, if she truely understands what she's done, or if she thinks dad will take care of it, and everything will just continue as before. If the problem is not that severe, you will rest easier; if it's worse than you imagined, you will at least know that and can begin seeking help for her. Solving the school issues, thinking everything is back on track, sending her off to college without treating her problems (if in fact there are any) might result in other, more severe, problems down the road. College is many things, but one of these is that it can offer a smorgasbord of temptations. For someone who comes already with an addiction, has a tendency to addiction, or who cannot or will not resist temptation, it can be devastating. I know; I speak from personal experience, that is, mine. And the last thing you want is a call from the Dean some night saying your daughter is in trouble, and you need to come right away. </p>
<p>You and your family are in my prayers tonight.</p>
<p>BADad, you sound so reasoned and loving. Best wishes.</p>
<p>In regard to taking proctored exams, I wonder (and do not know the answer) - do these drugs persist for days? Could one offer to submit to another drug test immediately before proctored exams, and if clean have the exams count?</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seems what now needs to also be done is determine the severity of her problems.
[/quote]
I want to send my sympathies, but also to reiterate this aspect of the issue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Imagine your heartache if your daughter goes away to school and you get a call in the middle of the night that she overdosed.
[/quote]
This happened to a family that I know. They sent their son to college. Less than half-way through his freshman year, his parents received the call that he had overdosed on prescription medicines that were not his own. They buried him shortly before his 19th birthday.</p>
<p>I don't know if he had been drug tested or if his high school had known about the problem. I do know that other kids in his high school knew he was a druggie, but the parents did not know the extent of the problem.</p>
<p>I know his parents would give anything to have caught it, kept him home, lost his scholarships, and gotten him help.</p>
<p>My best to you.</p>
<p>(PLEASE do not tell me what bad timing it is. I already know...)</p>
<p>I would think there is never good timing to find out your kid is doing drugs.....</p>
<p>^^ While this is a serious issue, I would not characterize it at this point as "doing drugs". The girl had taken a prescription medication that wasn't hers and tested positive. Yes, this is a violation and needs to be addressed by the family, but you make it sound like she is a heroin addict.<br>
And, yes, the timing is terrible since there is a lot more on the line than if the problem had been discovered AFTER high school graduation or in sophomore year of high school. This is the point the OP was making. He was not minimizing the seriousness of the issue, but if you think his daughter is alone in abusing this particular medication, think again. It is RAMPANT at high schools and colleges.</p>
<p>I'm with MOWC. Are you all aware of the percentage of any given college campus that uses stimulants for studying come finals? And how few of those "druggies" will ever use any other serious drugs?</p>
<p>No, simply testing positive for drugs tells a person little to nothing about the extent of a kid's drug problem.</p>
<p>It is very bad timing in that it is right on the brink of a transition point. After paying for 4 years of private school, it is disheartening to say the least not to get a diploma and have to go for a GED. </p>
<p>There will be time enough in the summer to find out if this is a big problem that needs some heavy guns, or a stupid indiscretion and attitude problem that also would need to be addressed, but perhaps not as drastically. Right now the effort is to salvage the highschool diploma and the options for college as much as possible.</p>
<p>MOWC,</p>
<p>I agree that it is rampant-- but I also consider this "doing drugs." This is a kid who, at 15 or 16, had an <em>alcohol</em> infraction-- a full 5-6 years before she was legal. Now, there's an incident in which she was caught using a stimulant. One of my close relatives died of an od. His brother is now dying (given weeks/ months to live) from the damage caused by drugs. No, they weren't using heroin. There were only a couple of "incidents" in each case that tipped off family-- and each one had only one that involved anything other than pot. In other words, I would treat any such incident-- and especially two such incidents-- as huge red flags.</p>
<p>From a parent who has a child taking stimulants-
My son's Dr advised my son to not let anyone at college know he was taking Adderall and to keep it locked up. My son is pretty tight lipped and when I asked him about people asking him for his meds he won't say a thing. I do know that at one point in the first semester he ran out long before he should have. He denied giving it to anyone. He had to be giving it to friends or someone took it without his knowledge. Knowing my son he might have made a few bucks.
When he was in high school I began keeping it in my bathroom after having some disappear after my older child had an AP study group over.
Another precaution my son's D suggested was at college he switch to the Ritalin patch or the new drug made by the makers of Adderall (can't recall the name) as both of these meds have less popularity for abuse.
We also had a talk with my son this weekend about drug use by several of his peers. One father we know suspects his child of using some serious drugs and we also know another girl in rehab for cocaine. My son said "everyone" knew the girl was using cocaine for the last 2 yrs. he said the kids know who is using but few of them tell any adult. I said I can't believe that the kids know and no parents do. He said parents don't have a clue and most don't want to know or would not believe it if someone told them.
My son said it all comes down to kids thinking they are invincible.
Interestly for him he hates the stimulants. He stopped taking them 2nd semester as he hated what they did to him. His grades reflect the change. </p>
<p>Same son had an alcohol at school problem after the last day of classes but before graduation and grad week. He was suspended from all graduation activities. The principal did make a point of saying it would not be reported to the college or noted on his transcript. This was his first offense.</p>
<p>My close friend's daughter had a similar experience with ADD meds. She trusted the girl who had always been reliable with a 3 month supply of the meds. It was gone in month, and it did not seem as though the girl was taking them, as her behavior indicated. I don't think she understood that she was a drug dealer, sharing her stash. For her it was to win social status, not cash. It is a big problem in college.</p>
<p>BADad, I applaud your efforts to help your D. From what you've written I don't think she's a 'druggie'. I could be wrong, but it seems like this is a case of terrible, terrible luck: an accomplished young woman gets caught experimenting, the way kids do, at the worst possible moment. My hopes are that the school will be reasonable, and punishes her in such a way that doesn't affect the scholarship she's earned to an outstanding college that otherwise will be out of reach for her. Here's hoping some adult compassion and understanding gets you a reasonable outcome in this situation. My thought is that your D has already learned a bitter lesson.</p>