D failed HS drug test/expulsion -- Loss of college scholarships?

Parents Forum
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<p>" Additionally he says "thankfully no "purveying" is involved."</p>

<p>I'm sure that he's reporting what he honestly believes. However, he would not know that no purveying is involved. Typically, students get their drugs from their friends, who are their peers at school. These can be students in good standing, not stereotypical drug dealers like what you see in movies. It's not unusual for frequent drug users to also be selling drugs as a convenience to their friends.</p>

<p>It wouldn't surprise me if the school "randomly" tested the OP's D because they had gotten word from other students that she was selling drugs.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Why should the OP's daughter adhere to an anti-snitch ethos? Bringing the "purveyor" to attention could well be good for the culture of the school as a whole.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Although the above is true, it's not likely that teenagers will look at it that way.</p>

<p>All one has to do is read through the many threads on CC about cheating to see that often the teenage moral code views snitching as one of the lowest crimes, much worse than cheating or doing drugs.</p>

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<p>JHS I think that is why some parent struggle so hard right now. I certainly know that when my son got his MIP the circumstances were so innocent it turned my stomach to have to hire an attorney and fight for something that I didn't really feel was wrong. Of course we can't tell the kids how we feel and we have to tow the line and we have to come down hard on them because that's what we have to do - very troubling for parents who came of age when things were alittle more mellow. I'm shocked at this Ritalin/Adderal thing. I would not have guessed that it was such a huge issue. I showed my college son this thread and he said "sharing" or "selling" these to friends is pretty common "during midterms and exams". To a naive parent like me... so many kids take these drugs, so many parents I know are having their children take these drugs - wow, I didn't realize they were that dangerous...seems contradictory. I found an aderall pill on my living room foor from the neighbor kid and tossed it on the counter to remind him to grab it next time he was over. To me, it feels like kids take these like allergy pills. I don't know anything about these drugs and certainly didn't know they were dangerous and addictive drugs..shame on me, obviously I need to get educated.</p>

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<p>Well BADad, for better or for worse we are thinking of you:).</p>

<p>I am sure all of us, no matter where we fall on the spectrum wrt to substances, or parenting permissiveness etc., wish you and your daughter well today.</p>

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<p>One thing I hope BADad seriously considers, no matter what school his daughter attends (and I think a year at a 2-year school followed by 3 years at a state college or university can get you a great education, so if that's what ends up happening I don't think it will be all that bad), is tying financial support from the parents to a signed authorization allowing people at the school (including her RA, the dean, her academic advisor, the counseling center, and so on) to discuss his daughter's situation with him -- and notifying them all about this and making sure they have his phone number at the start of the year. I hope he especially considers it if the daughter is living somewhere other than his home this fall.</p>

<p>Ordinarily I am not a fan of these types of measures. I think that someone who is ready to go live away from her parents is ready to be responsible for her own life, and I think many parents do their children a disservice by not stepping back and letting them make -- and live with -- their own mistakes. But in this case, I think there's evidence to suggest that the young woman is not ready to be responsible for her own life, and even if the parents want to take a largely hands-off approach (obviously I'm not in a position to know how hands-off will be appropriate), making sure that there are people on campus who will call them if they're worried might be a good idea. Over the last 15 years, people I know who work on postsecondary campuses have been talking about these releases more and more, so I'm sure the school will have some way for him to do this.</p>

<p>"Helicopter parents" get a lot of bad press on postsecondary campuses, and I am inclined to agree with much of it. But it is common enough that BADad would not need to disclose all that much information about what might worry people in order to convey that if anything does he wants to be notified -- and his daughter has agreed to it in advance. There might be some eye-rolling after his calls at the start of the year, but this thread is evidence that he's willing to risk not being everyone's candidate for Father of the Year if that's what it takes to do the right thing for his kid.</p>

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<p>"It wouldn't surprise me if the school "randomly" tested the OP's D because they had gotten word from other students that she was selling drugs."</p>

<p>Northstarmom- What a horrible thing to say. I know it is "your opinion", but why speculate like that with NO basis whatsoever? You are basically accusing this girl of a further- and very serious- crime, based on absolutely nothing. She TOOK the pill- there is absolutely NO discussion about selling and it isn't on the table.</p>

<p>I think you should edit your post and remove that insensitive comment.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom --</p>

<p>With all due respect, I have an issue with the "it wouldn't surprise me" type of argument. I think it allows people to make statements without having to substantiate them. "It wouldn't surprise me if [...] was elected President that [...]" Fill in the blanks. We seem to have moved from the daughter's actions raising some red flags to her dealing drugs. Of course, you didn't actually <em>say</em> that, just that you wouldn't be surprised.</p>

<p>Just saw that MOWC also posted.</p>

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<p>I don't have a problem with what I said. By having experience with working with more than 1,000 substance abusers and their family members, I know that it's virtually impossible even for experienced professionals to know the extent of anyone's drug use or involvement.</p>

<p>This includes me or any other parent and their beliefs about their own kids' use.</p>

<p>It's very common for student drug users to also sell drugs to their friends. They consider this in the same light as most of us would consider picking up something from the grocery store for a neighbor. </p>

<p>The people supplying drugs to high school and college students are likely to be a friend at the school, and that friend may have good grades, etc. The drug purveyor isn't likely to be the kind of seedy character that one sees in B movies.</p>

<p>Consequently, the OP should keep a very open mind about the extent of his D's drug involvement. He is not in a position to know for sure that his daughter isn't a drug purveyor, even if the school officials have stated this. </p>

<p>I hope that the OP and others will also read the story that I linked to about the recent FSU graduate, a young woman with a good reputation who, was killed during a drug buy that she was doing as part of a police-directed sting operation that she participated in to try to avoid jail. Apparently police look for this kind of person (and this includes people like the OP's D) to participate in those dangerous operations.</p>

<p>This is more reason why I think that the OP should let his D feel the natural consequences of her behavior. Having her live at home while funding herself through community college could help her avoid behaviors that lead to imprisonment or worse.</p>

<p>Adding that I am a parent who has been through my older S's having a problem with partying that I discovered when I accidentally found his blog in which he was documenting --pictures, times, dates, places -- his behavior.</p>

<p>At first, no one in the family believed me despite the evidence. In fact, my in laws protected S, and gave him money because he told them that my H and I were being mean to him by not giving him money and supporting his career goals.</p>

<p>It wasn't until the in-laws stopped supporting S --and S had to feel the consequences of his behavior which included not having the money to live in acceptable housing -- that S got his life together. That S now has been working at the same place for 2 years, living in a nice apartment, and seems to be doing well from what I can tell (as always, I would never say that I am 100% that S isn't still partying).</p>

<p>Typically when a person gets caught for drug or similar problems, it's the tip of the iceberg, and parents should keep an open mind to that possibility.</p>

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<p>She can certainly speak for herself, but N'starmom has said that she has professional experience in this area - - so maybe what she describes is a common scenario.</p>

<p>Oops - - cross-posted.</p>

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<p>BayAreaDad expressed every intent to closely examine all aspects of his daughter's behavior, and there is no doubt that this will include where she obtained the drugs and how they were used. Northstarmom has no more expertise about this particular situation than anyone else does.</p>

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<p>...ok, I feel like this is getting a bit ridiculous. I'm going to use myself as an example of why the wild conclusions you're all jumping to sound completely ridiculous:</p>

<p>I drank from about 10th grade (when I was 15) onwards - with about 75% of my peers (this is Canada, so it starts a little earlier I suppose). Not a ridiculous amount - only at parties every few weekends, and so forth. I have also, occasionally, used ADD drugs to optimize my studying for large exams. And, the absolutely most terrible sin of all (ward yourselves!) I've actually smoked pot. The horror!</p>

<p>All it would take would be me attending a school like the girl in question's, with capricious drug testing policies, and a pinch of bad luck and I could be sitting here having gotten an "alcohol infraction" and failing a drug test.</p>

<p>But I'm not a drunk. I'm not a lazy, stupid pothead sitting around listening to The Grateful Dead and not doing anything productive. I'm also not some hollow eyed amphetamine addict. (And in case anyone feels the urge, I'm also not here to defend what I've done to any of you, so don't start) But if I were the topic of discussion on this thread, I'd have been implicated as a drunk by idad, told I had a substance abuse problem by innumerable posters, and even had someone say I was probably caught because I was tipped off for selling drugs!</p>

<p>You all have absolutely no idea what the circumstances of this girl's use is. Maybe you've all not been on a college campus lately, and maybe your HS kids are all exceptionally teetotaling (from reading the forum this seems likely, or else everyone here is just really blind to their kids' extra-curricular activities ;)), but the scenarios being thrown out are outright absurd. How about we stick to the reality of the situation so far and skip over the drug addict/kingpin disaster scenarios?</p>

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<p>"You all have absolutely no idea what the circumstances of this girl's use is."</p>

<p>This is very true. It's also true that the OP doesn't know the extent of the D's drug use. Consequently, no one can say for sure whether she's addicted, whether she sells drugs, etc.</p>

<p>The only thing we know is that she has been caught after having used a drug, and that the D doesn't feel she's doing anything wrong. The fact that the D thinks her behavior is acceptable is a red flag, a flag that makes people like me think it would be unwise to send her away to college, where she'd have even more freedom to do things that could have serious lasting negative repercussions on her life. </p>

<p>I've treated enough substance abusers that I'd never say for sure that I was 100% sure about the drug or alcohol use of anyone whom I know. One of the calmest, wisest appearing psychiatrists I know ended up being a prescription drug addict-- at a military facility at that. The chief counselor at another treatment facilitator had relapsed into active alcoholism, but was able to hide it for a while from the rest of the staff. </p>

<p>Virtually always, when someone gets into trouble due to drug or alcohol use, what has come to light is only the tip of the iceberg. Even a very well trained counselor may not be able to determine the extent of the person's drug use, so that's more reason why I suggest that the OP keep his D home next school year, letting her go to college nearby. That way, the parents can keep an eye on her, and hopefully, by feeling the consequences of her unwise actions, she'll avoid future major problems.</p>

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<p>As someone with many friends that used drugs- some frequently some casually I always believed that if my child got caught with or using drugs I would react and seek treatment as if they were a junkie. Why- it was only the serious users who ever got caught- but Dad it was the only time I ever tried name the drug. The casual users never got caught- the real serious users only got caught infrequently.</p>

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<p>1of42, one of the things that makes it hard to rationally discuss drinking and drug use is difficulty distinguishing between the casual user who does not significantly indulge in addictive substances, and the addict or potential addict.</p>

<p>When I was a college student, parents were encouraged to believe all of the "Reefer Madness" nonsense, and they talked about kids being "on drugs" if they smoked the comparatively weak pot of the day, as if they were heroin addicts or something. One of the problems with this kind of inaccuracy and exaggeration is that it makes kids discount the very real dangers associated with drugs that actually ARE highly addictive and quite dangerous. And, as someone who has done a number of them--far more than you, not surprising since I graduated from high school in 1971 :)--I know they are out there.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom is right in that it is too easy to become a drug dealer, and kids don't see it. When you supply drugs, that is what you are. Period. Or if you have a stash of a certain amount. That does not even mean the kid is truly deep, deep into drug abuse in terms of addiction, but in terms of legalities and penalties, he is. </p>

<p>However, there are many, many kids who are experimenting, taking, using drugs on a casual basis that are not going to be drug addicts or problems. There are many who have been sneaking drinks who are not going to be alcoholics or get DWIs. I don't know if treating every kid who gets caught with an infraction as though he is hardcore is the right way to go. I don't think so. But that is opinion only. Right now, I think this dad just wants to keep options open until he can sort out the problems. I certainly think a summer of intense substance abuse counseling is in order. No beach, vacation, friends, internships,....just time in a counseling center. She can see what life in that type of setting is like and how drug use consigns her to such things. Maybe a few days sitting in the local courthouse and listening to what happens with a criminal attorney explaining some things to her would help too. I don't think kids understand what a long term pain in the neck having to go to court for these things is. And the expense. But the dad can see to these things later. Right now he wants the danged diploma and the option for her to go on to college, secured.</p>

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<p>As an aside, if she is not on the meds (which she is not otherwise the school would know and the positive would not be an issue), she is not likely to be the one selling. It's the kids who are on those meds that most often sell their legal stash to friends during academic crunch time. I am sure the pressure is going to be on hard for her to cough up her source.</p>

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<p>^^ Exactly! That is why Northstarmom's accusation was baseless.</p>

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<p>I think we are getting way ahead of this situation. From all his postings, it sounds like BADad knows his family has serious issues to explore and decisions to make. This is not a problem that can be dealt with overnight. I think BADad is just trying to preserve the option for his D to attend her chosen U in the fall. The family can then take the summer to get help and figure out what is in the D's best interest. I wish them well.</p>

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<p>I worry that if she is forced to reveal who gave her the pharmaceuticals she may suffer from retaliation. As a parent I would be highly concerned about that very real possibility. </p>

<p>As an aside:
Many parents on here are very naive about reality and have the wool completely pulled over their eyes. The other day I was near enough to overhear a girl my son's age (graduating senior) talking on her cell phone. She was expressing to her mother with disgust about how at the party she had just left, “everyone was drinking.” She went on to say, “You know you don't need to worry about me mom.” After she hung up she and her friend went into peels of giggles about how drunk they both were.</p>

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<p>[I worry that if she is forced to reveal who gave her the pharmaceuticals she may suffer from retaliation. As a parent I would be highly concerned about that very real possibility.]</p>

<p>How would the dealer know who it was that told the school that he or she was selling? Do kids at high school go around threatening others - especially if they are charged with selling prescription drugs? Adding a criminal threatening charge would seem pretty dumb.</p>

<p>[Many parents on here are very naive about reality and have the wool completely pulled over their eyes. The other day I was near enough to overhear a girl my son's age (graduating senior) talking on her cell phone. She was expressing to her mother with disgust about how at the party she had just left, “everyone was drinking.” She went on to say, “You know you don't need to worry about me mom.” After she hung up she and her friend went into peels of giggles about how drunk they both were.]</p>

<p>How do you know parents HERE are naive?</p>