D21 journey

College Search & Selection
621

I always hesitate to contribute to a “Greek” conversation since historically they tend to go south. But here goes…

My son had a very positive Greek experience at Wake and although did know a couple guys from our area, he didn’t contact them. Same goes for his college GF and her sorority. She had zero contacts from home. They simply went through the process (as stated in the policy above) and it worked. She had friends from all over the country in her sorority, including Alaska! All the kids we met through our son and his GF were smart, studious, funny, kind and social.

As I have stated before, we found Wake’s Greek system to be very unique (as compared to Vanderbilt, S1’s alma mater) where all of the kids we knew (men and women) were active in SO many other campus activities so their fraternity/sorority was never their only club nor their only friend group. As you probably know, the students all live on campus for 3 years (and many stay on all 4) so there isn’t that mass exodus of kids leaving for apartments/Greek houses sophomore year.

I will admit that H and I were very concerned when our older son wanted to rush (neither of us went Greek in college) and I obsessed a bit about it. Honestly, I think you will find positives and negatives about the sorority process at most of the schools on your D’s list and most schools in general.

Not to be pollyanna-ish but from you’ve posted about your D, I think she will be just fine in the process!

622

@dwhite thanks. I also think she’s the kind of girl who would do well in rush but I"m guessing that most kids who choose to go to Wake are also smart, friendly and social. All of this discussion just reminds me that D needs to learn about how rush works and the possible ups and downs of it. Right now, I think she’s just thinking upside. You rush, you find girls you like, you join! She knows girls get cut but I don’t think she gets how wrapped up everyone gets in the process while it’s going on and how feelings can be hurt and how she may have to “settle” in the end and make the best of whichever sorority offers her a bid. Generally, she’s good at letting things roll off her back but I know that emotions run high during rush and big disappointment is always a possibility. She will need to go in eyes wide open and I’ll make sure she understands that if she chooses a school with a big Greek presence and she intends to rush.

623

I’m not sure if you’ve found it yet, but this list might be helpful with to respect to sorting schools by sorority participation: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-sororities. Knowing some of the colleges on it, I can’t say that it’s 100% accurate, however.

624

What’s interesting about the list of schools with the most students joining sororities is that a few of them like Stevens and MIT are schools where there aren’t that many women students, so those who join are looking for support and inclusion. My national organization has chapters at a lot of tech schools because we have found women in STEM want a place to get support from other women. I’m always seeing posts about the women at MIT, Stevens, CMU, JHU being honored for their achievements. They look like the other women on those campuses, not all models or cheerleaders (although we have those too, and a recent Miss America).

The list includses all Greek participation, the NPC houses but the local sororities and NPHC (traditionally black sororities) or Greek houses with a special focus like music or christian living. At Alabama, there are the NPC and NPHC houses but there are also several other organizations that are included in the overall Greek participation and those are more like clubs (some are co-ed) that do not have a rush like we all think of it but more of an application process. Again, other schools have these as clubs and do not count them in the Greek census.

Statistics don’t always show the way things are.

625

Sorority rush can be brutal. Our close friend’s D is at Vanderbilt. Rushed freshman year with some close friends, they got in to their top choice, she did not. Year later, rushed same sorority again, and having friends there, she thought she would get a bid, she was rejected again.

The other point is that while most pledges will get at least one bid, doesn’t mean that that’s the sorority you want to be associated with, might not be a good fit.

Maybe it’s a southern sorority thing, but the process seems particularly brutal. I do worry about my own D who will be rushing a sorority in a university in the south. Will see what happens.

626

Super description of the process, @twoinanddone .

And FWIW, the school I was thinking of has a single digit admittance rate, so don’t assume that because the kids are smart, they won’t engage in segregating themselves on the basis of rather superficial measures.

It’s not to say that kids don’t end up at peace with the outcomes, but it’s not all love and sisterhood the way many expect. And more than a few may not want to be part of the group that wants them. I’m sure it helps to have realistic expectations.

627

@gardenstategal - Agree. an d FWIW - the school I was referring to would be an academic peer of Wake

628

I agree that the Greek rank website is silly and not useful. I’ve completed many recs for girls attending southern universities and it does seem like the process is quite stressful for them (do agree Wake is likely different from the larger school). I was surprised about the resumes, which usually include photos and often include SAT/ACT scores! I don’t think not having connections at Wake will matter much, since your D will have all fall semester to meet people. However, I do agree with the above point about trying to not get one’s heart set on a particular sorority before going through rush. My friend’s daughter at Wake has had great social experiences without being in a sorority. It seems like it would be helpful to talk to some non-Greek students when you visit this spring.

629

Are finger prints required ?

One of my sisters-in-law headed a sorority at a Southern university & was the national leader of that sorority. Still involved. I’ll ask her about requirements & the inner workings.

Although I suspect that finger prints are not required, I do wonder about credit checks & background investigations–serious & not kidding.

630

It is not uncommon for the questionnaire all recruits fill out to ask for SAT, GPA, any honors, majors, goals, etc. Some houses have higher GPA requirements (high school or college) than the university has for admissions. Some houses do not hold initiation until there is one semester of college gpa, and if the recruit/pledge doesn’t have that gpa, she can’t be initiated.

Many chapters have study tables for new members or for members whose grades have slipped.

I don’t get the comments over this. First everyone puts down sororities as being vapid and concerned only with looks, but then when they ask for gpa/stats, that’s a bad thing and unfair?

631

Interesting discussion about the Greek system. I’ve seen some mention of sororities at “Southern schools” being a certain way, but I don’t think they can be lumped together. My experience is of my Alma mater, William & Mary where I was in a sorority. My daughter is there now as an OOS freshman. She did not rush because she is on the sailing team (which is coed, about 70 kids, and quite social), plus she is training to become a W&M adventure guide which is another tight-knit group. She has friends that do these kind of activities and are also Greek, but with a close freshman hall on top of her EC’s, D decided she is good for now.

She would say that women do not choose their sorority sisters based on money, clothes or physical appearance. It is not considered cool to flaunt money at all, and D lives and dresses more frugally than she did at home. When I was a student there, my sorority sisters traded our dresses and shoes around rather than buying new ones for formals, and we did each other’s hair/make-up. I can’t think of anyone who wasn’t serious about academics. We chose rushees based on whether they had “passions”, seemed genuine, were easy to talk to, were interested in us, and had warmth and basic good manners. We definitely bonded over shared interests—academic and all other kinds. From what D19 and her friends say, it’s the same now.

A more low-key rush experience might be a function of the smaller size of the school, the lower percentage of women who go Greek (36%), and the intellectual personality of the school. Those things would be similar at Wake Forest, right? The one thing that would be different is private vs public, and I’m not sure whether the SES mix ends up being that different.

Long story short, if your D likes the vibe and the kids she meets at Wake, I would say that she would have a positive experience with rush because the sorority women would be a lot like her. If she didn’t want to rush, she would find other types of groups that throw social functions and have fun together/live together etc.

632

New here. Read thru some of this thread and our experiences are v similar. S20 looked seriously at Wake, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, BC, Colby, SMU, W&M and Miami OH and Denison as safeties. We are from the Midwest as well. Wake looked perfect on paper and I really thought that was going to be it… but he fell in love with Richmond when we visited and that’s where he’ll be going. We love the school and couldn’t be happier! I’ve got lots of thoughts on comparisons between these schools. I could go on and on and on so feel free to PM me or ask anything specific here. Like you, I was pretty involved in the process!

633

Thanks @TennisAddict7 ! I have a feeling that could happen with D as well. I think she will like Richmond’s location and size better. Dance is probably better for her there as well. Sounds a little less intense than Wake, too, and I could see her preferring that. I also think she’s going to be swayed by the campus. I’ve heard it’s particularly pretty. I’ll think of some good questions and PM you!

634

I’ll make the same offer, @homerdog. My son is a third year at Richmond and we’ve been extremely happy with his experience. (Weird because I know you have one at Bowdoin and we were on that campus just yesterday. Lobstah rolls at Cameron’s!)

635

@OCDaddy Thanks!

Hope your Bowdoin visit was a good one and the school showed well in the winter weather!

636

Talked to D a little about her tentative list. She’s feeling a little less sure about small LACs. I think she’s been talking to her brother. He’s fitting in well where he is but I’m pretty sure his opinion is that she would like a school with a little more energy and more social options.

I’m glad we are seeing Davidson and W&L on the trip. Sometimes visits are not all about finding fit but also checking off options and narrowing down the types of schools a student likes best. At least Richmond is a little bigger. If she wants to take LACs off, then there goes the two NC LACs, Bates, Furman, Denison, Colgate, Lafayette.

If D ends up preferring midsized schools, that’s a little rougher. Depending on her SAT scores (are you all tired of me saying that yet?), her midsized school list could look something like this-

Miami OH
Wake
Santa Clara
Tulane
Villanova
Boston College
Emory
USC (yes, California)

…and that list is high match, reach heavy if you ask me.

She also talked about Wisconsin last night. She has friends who have older (and very bright!) siblings there and they love it. And those friends have visited their sibs and love it too. D doesn’t get how she didn’t feel the love when we were there - was she missing something? I explained that (1) we could re-visit and it would never hurt to apply and (2) maybe she just has a different vision than her friends about college and that’s ok. She asked if she could dance there and I told her that I (yes, behind her back) emailed the chair of the dance dept about that and never heard back. I don’t like that. (For comparison, I emailed Vassar about dance last year and got a LONG and wonderful response in one day.)

Also, in big standardized test news here, I gave her the option of bagging the ACT and she chose to do just that. I think that just relieved a whole bunch of stress. She took a practice SAT yesterday and hit 1410 which is a 31. She has been studying math and went from 670 to 700. EW stayed about the same going from 700-710. She’s got over a month to work on inching up a little more. To get a 31 superscore on the ACT, she would need to find eight more points and she doesn’t think that’s realistic. She’d rather keep plugging away on SAT studying. I agree.

637

It would be useful to visit those schools. Several value demonstrated interest, and some fill most of the class early, so one would need to narrow down the choice earlier.

638

@homerdog: Although you have written that you are not considering any schools in Texas, SMU might be a match for your daughter.

According to the Fiske guide To Colleges 2020:

“SMU is best known for business, the performing arts, and an abundance of school spirit.”

“Picture-book campus on the city outskirts adds to its appeal.”

6,235 undergrads, 50/50 male female, slightly over 9,000 total enrollment.

“Most students come from upper-middle-class families.”

“SMU is a relatively small school that has a big school feel.”

Overlap schools include: Vanderbilt University, TCU, USC, Wake Forest, & others.

If your daughter likes Vanderbilt and is considering USC & WFU, SMU is a natural, in my opinion. There is something very special about Dallas, Texas & SMU. Even better for those with adequate funds to enjoy everything that Dallas has to offer.

P.S. Based on the little that I know about your daughter, I suspect that she might like SMU even more than Vanderbilt.

Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020 gives SMU very solid ratings of 3 pens for academics, 4 telephones for social life, & 4 stars for quality of life. (Vanderbilt receives 4s across the board.) (USC received 3.5 for academics, 3 for social life, & 3 for quality of life.)

639

On a “bigger picture” note, I find it interesting that schools don’t post SAT composites on common data sets. They only break out EW and Math. It’s also interesting to me that, for all midsized schools above, Math scores are much higher than EW scores.

700 for each section puts D right at or above the 50th percentile at Miami, Richmond, Wake, Santa Clara, Villanova. She’s in the ball park for the others but would be in a better position with 720s or above. Gotta love SAT superscore. Guessing she’ll be utilizing that!

640

No to SMU. I think I’ve explained this before. Our neighbor is there and everything her mom tells me about her D’s experience is not what D wants. I know it looks like a good match on paper but just no.