<p>Academics:
3.97 GPA
SAT I 2260 (Math 790, Verbal 740, Writing 730)
^ it just came out...mixed feelings....
SAT II Chemistry 800
SAT II Math II 800
SAT II US History 760
AP Chemistry 5 (self)
AP Calculus BC 5 (self)
AP US History 4
AP Art History 5
AP Statistics 4 (self)
AP Macroeconomics 5 (self)
AP Microeconomics 5 (self)
AP Physics E&M 5 (self)
AP Physics Mechanics 5 (self)
TOEFL 283</p>
<p>EC:
Soccer 3yrs: 3 varsity letters
Cross Country 2yrs: 1 varsity letter & academic all-state
Amnesty International 2yrs: President
National Honor Society 2yrs
Student Ambassador 1yr
Band 4yrs: 1st violinist & pianist (I know...typical asian)
Philharmonic Orchestra 2yrs: 2nd violinist (1st & public speaker during tours)</p>
<p>Volunteer Works:
American Red Cross 2yrs 60 hrs
Working with the old who have dimentia 2yrs 140 hrs</p>
<p>Honors:
Precalculus Award: 10th grade
AP Calculus Award: 11th grade
Physics Award: 11th grade
Superior Rating in State Piano Solo Competition: 10th grade
4th Place in State Math Contest: 11th grade
6th Place in State Math Contest: 10th grade</p>
<p>Essay:
Modestly good</p>
<p>bty, I DO apply for financial aid...forty-five grand is something that I cannot afford...</p>
<p>Then it should be Williams (which is need blind) since Dartmouth is not need blind to international students and your ability to pay will factor into the admissions decision.</p>
<p>I don't think Dartmouth is need-blind, but Dartmouth is very generous with internationals as far as the FA goes....hm...I still need to think about which..</p>
<p>They are so similar, it hardly matters. If you are a prospective math or art history major, then Williams.</p>
<p>But if you are an FA applicant, wouldn't you want to be able to compare financial aid offers? ED is made for folks who don't require financial aid, and who have a very clear first choice. Neither description fits you.</p>
<p>mini, since international students don't have many FA opportunities in the first place, i have very selected options to choose (please tell me if i'm wrong)
bty, i'm going to major in economics and chinese</p>
<p>Odds for an international admission at Williams are approximately 1 in 13, likely less if you require financial aid, and I imagine they aren't any better at Dartmouth. What you think you gain in admissions odds in ED (which is quite marginal for international candidates with need - think about it: why would they provide a preference for you ED when you'd just as likely be around RD time?) is likely more than overcome by the fact that you are applying to 2 (or 4 or 6) places rather than one.</p>
<p>In other words, regardless of what you do, and despite you likely being a wonderful, wonderful person and very smart who would offer much to the college, your odds of getting into either are poor. So what other plans do you have up your sleeve?</p>
<p>what's your point mini?...
williams doesn't care if i ask financial aid because it's a need-blind school even for internationals.
well, if my ED doesn't get through, i will have to apply to less selective schools that will offer me financial aid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dartmouth is need blind to international students! I think... You better go check it out.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>**Due to the limited resources available for financial aid, Dartmouth must take the financial resources of international applicants into account when making admissions decisions. **Dartmouth provides financial aid to all admitted students who demonstrate financial need and will meet 100% of that demonstrated need.</p>
<p>Mini being a very active Williams alum and is also well versed in financial aid polices at private universities (he knows his alma mater inside out) and their commitment to students with great financial need is not off the mark with his statements. I think the point he is trying to make is that while schools state they are need blind there is a lot they can tell your economic status just by reading the first page of your application (so while they are not looking at your financials they can differientate full pays from those that need $$). The school also knows that it is not going to be at a loss of Korean american students applying for admission, so while you are applying as an internatinal student, you are really not going to add to the diversity of the school.</p>
<p>Article in the most recent Williams Alumni Magazine makes it quite clear that "need-blind' is a hoax. They tag the applicants requiring substantial financial aid - sometimes for the purpose of selecting enough of them - but implying quite clearly that there is a quota or target for those requiring substantial aid. </p>
<p>Regardless - you posted this is "What are my chances?" - I gave you the best answer I can, and suggested that ED is not the advantage you think it is, and given your financial situation and need to maximize aid, might actually not be of benefit to you.</p>
<p>thanks, mini, sybbie719, and others.
another question though: my brother is one of the 54 internationals in dartmouth class of 08. will it have a substantial effect? he doesn't get any financial aid...</p>
<p>The upside is that it may be a very small tip because you do get to say that you have a sibling and Dartmouth does seem to like sibling. There are a number of students at Dartmouth who either have siblings in attendance or are recent alums. Ask your brother to check facebook as there is a facebook group with siblings so you have an idea of how many sets of siblings are currently in attendance. </p>
<p>The down side, which you already know from your brother's experience is that he did not get any financial aid, depending on yor family situation, your parents may have to prove that they can afford to send 2 students. </p>
<p>They other side of the coin (just speculating as I know nothing about your financial situation) there could also be a chance that the your family's EFC which made your brother ineligible for aid may now be split between 2 students and you could both walk away getting some aid.</p>
<p>steven, You've got two issues here: Where do I have the best chance of admission? and Who will give the most money?</p>
<p>Purely from an admissions point of view, your chances of getting into Dartmouth or Williams with an ED application are about equal. Choose the one you want most! Otherwise you'll regret it.</p>
<p>Same situation with financial aid. They are both known to be generous. They are both known to be very selective when it comes to internationals. If your family can't afford to take the risk then you shouldn't be applying ED, anywhere, period.</p>
<p>Since it sounds like you're leaning toward Dartmouth, why don't you have your parents talk to Dartmouth's finaid office about how their EFC would change if they had two kids enrolled. It sounds like it could be a win-win situation for you and for Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Similar situation with Williams. You should be able to get a guideline EFC (emphasis on ESTIMATED). If your family can't live with this amount, then forget ED.</p>