Dartmouth's greatest rival....?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Dartmouth College
101

<p>"i am quite sure that the average person in dartmouth mosty likely cant get into princeton but a princeton admit has a very high chance at dartmouth. "</p>

<p>If you look at the Common Data Set info for both schools you will see that Princeton has very marginal edge on Dartmouth based on academic measures such as SAT scores.</p>

<pre><code>Math Verbal
Prince. Dart. Prince.Dartmouth
</code></pre>

<p>25th 680 670 690 690
75th 770 770 790 780</p>

<p>The average person at Dartmouth most definitely could get accepted at Princeton based on this sort of criteria (which, if you look further in the Common Data sets, are important criteria to both schools). as far as</p>

102

<p>"i am quite sure that the average person in dartmouth mosty likely cant get into princeton but a princeton admit has a very high chance at dartmouth. "</p>

<p>If you look at the Common Data Set info for both schools you will see that Princeton has a slim to none edge on Dartmouth based on academic measures such as SAT scores </p>

<p>Math
25th: Princeton - 680; Dartmouth - 670
75th: Princeton - 770; Dartmouth - 770</p>

<p>Verbal
25th: Princeton - 690; Dartmouth - 690
75th: Pinceton - 790; Dartmouth - 780</p>

<p>If you look at the class rank data (% of matriculants in upper 10th of high school class), the edge is slightly more - Princeton: 94%, Dartmouth: 88% - I guess this is the "hands down" evidence?.</p>

<p>Regardless, the average person at Dartmouth most definitely could get accepted at Princeton based on this sort of criteria (which, if you look further in the Common Data sets, are equally regarded as very important criteria to both school - as they are to most schools). </p>

<p>A likely letter from Dartmouth is not a pathetic thing - just an attempt to battle against a perception. So, have fun at Stanford - you are going to love it and it is an amazing opportunity. So is Duke. So are many many schools. But, let the Dartmouth kids love the school they chose - they don't happen to feel it inferior. Hopefully everything shook out the way it was supposed to and college will be an incredible experience for everyone.</p>

103

<p>SAT means nothing once you get to that level of achievement. The difference between a Princeton admit and a Dartmouth admit to me is their strenght in extracurriculars. Princeton has the much lower admit rate than Dartmouth which shows that they are more selective in attempts to create their class than Dartmouth is. You will find very few people who were rejected from dartmouth and accepted to Princeton. Look around this board and you will see that. the close numbers mean nothing</p>

104

<p>I said soooo many times Dartmouth is not inferior. There is no shame not being on par with Princeton. Duke is nowhere near Princeton in prestige. Academically, I believe there are more noteworthy professors at Princeton, but Pton is infamous for huge classes. That school is still arguably the best in the country. Why is it so awful to be in the top 10? :)</p>

<p>Very good points though, omadre.</p>

105

<p>Princeton has a much lower admit rate for various reasons:</p>

<p><a href="http://registrar1.princeton.edu/data/common/cds2004.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://registrar1.princeton.edu/data/common/cds2004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>For the class of 2008</p>

<p>They accept less students for a larger class (1172):</p>

<p>there were 13695 applicants vying for 1733 spots </p>

<p>Overall admit rate of 12.65 (1733/13695)</p>

<p>Ed Pool 1818 applicants 581 admits - 31.95 %</p>

<p>49.57% of the class of 2008 are ED admits 581/1172</p>

<p>79 admitted from waitlist of 719</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Eoir/pdfs/cds_200405_02.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~oir/pdfs/cds_200405_02.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Dartmouth class of 2008</p>

<p>11734 applicants, 2173 admits 18.51 overall admit rate</p>

<p>Class size 1081</p>

<p>ED pool 1277, admits 384 30%</p>

<p>35.52% of the class of 2008 are ED admits</p>

<p>790 on waitlist, 24 admitted.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You will find very few people who were rejected from Dartmouth and accepted to Princeton.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This statement is true based on....</p>

<p>You are making an assumption that every student that applied to Dartmouth also applied to Princeton. The premise is not true based on the plain and simple fact that the ED policy at each school does not allow you to apply ED at other schools.</p>

<p>In addition, you would have to poll every single student that was admitted to Dartmouth if they applied to Princeton and vice versa. </p>

<p>If polling them you would find people who applied to Princeton who are not remotely interested in applying to Dartmouth.</p>

<p>You would also find that there are students who applied to Dartmouth that were not remotely interested in Princeton. I know my daughter was on despite the fact that she has an Uncle who graduated from Princeton and currently teaches there. Daughter also knows a few students that turned down both Princeton and Harvard (after coming off of the Dartmouth's waitlist) to come to Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Other contributing factors include;</p>

<p>Dartmouth has a greater likelihood of having a more self-selected pool of students than Princeton. </p>

<p>There is probably a greater likelihood that a student that applied to Princeton also applied to Dartmouth than a student applying to Dartmouth applying to Princeton.</p>

<p>Princeton practices a strategic more strategic admissions process .</p>

<p>Princeton’s financial aid has a no loans component. Dartmouth does offer loans as part of its need based financial aid package.</p>

<p>(Financially, Princeton is definitely a more attractive option regardless of student's financial status)</p>

<p>Princeton has a need blind admission policy for international students making it much more attractive to apply to Princeton. Dartmouth is not need blind to international students. The no loan component also extends to international students making it a much more attractive option.</p>

<p>When it comes to preference:</p>

<p>
[quote]
it has long been hypothesized that specific colleges' degrees serve as signals of a student's aptitude, which is hard for future employers to observe directly [Spence, 1974]. In equilibrium, a college's degree signals the aptitude of the students who actually attend it. For instance, there will be an equilibrium only if a Princeton degree signals aptitude that is consistent with the actual distribution of aptitude among Princeton students. This is another reason for students to care about the ability of their peers and, thus, their college's tendency to attract students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/hoxby/papers/revealedprefranking.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In the end, it is a matter of personal choice. When faced with equally great choices, it is very easy to get caught up in the best named school because yes, we do like hearing the Ahhh's and knowing that other people know the "prestige' associated with being accepted to a "big named school". </p>

<p>It is very hard to turn down Harvard, Yale, and Princetonf because of the plain and simple fact that they are Harvard Yale Princeton. You are not going to hear many people say that don't want to attend for fear of getting the "are you crazy looks". There are a number of people that attend and graduate from schools, with the big Ahhhh factors saying no doubt that they got a "good education" but also knowing that the school may have not been the best school for them. At 17 years old, when what your peers think carry a lot of weight, it is the rare person that can follow his /her passion regardless of what other people think.</p>

106

<p>Stanmaster - I like your first and last sentence, I happen to agree and I apologize that I thought you attributed too much signficance to scores.</p>

<p>I am not sure how you conclude as you do about extra-curricular strength however- is there any compilation of that kind of information? Maybe you or some of the fact-meisters on CC can point to details regarding number of nationally recognized contest winners to the extent that offers some limited measure - I hope you are talking about more than that though. I am not sure what those kind of results would show, but they surely would not be means to demonstrate the many accomplishments of a vast majoarity of applicants at either school. I am not sure where you get your impression that Dartmouth matriculants are not as impressive a lot as Princeton matriculants with respect to what they have done in their lives to date. Apparently both schools work very hard to create their class. You will find there is equal strength in extra-curriculars among matriculants to most top schools.</p>

<p>I don't happen to know what the cross admit data reveals, or even if there is a large pool of students who apply to both schools- I am not sure the schools are similar enough to attract many of the same applicants. You and many posters talk about Princeton's indisputable reputation. That matters to many and might be a better explanation of any cross-admit data than the strength of extra-curriculars.</p>

<p>As to admit rate, it is partially a function of the relative number of applicants per available spot, not simply the overall quality of the applicant pool or the selectively standards of the admissions office, and also partially a function of historic yield rate. Again "rep" and perception of prestige have much to do with both those figures. </p>

<p>To get back to the original post, I do not know whether Princeton is a rival or not. It looks to be, academically, positioned to qualify as one but I don't know if either school regards the other as one. I assume that, depending on the year, it is often an athletic rival just by being in the same athletic league. </p>

<p>I am sure that all top schools are in rivalry for top faculty - and that Princeton excels in that.</p>

<p>I am sure that both schools rank quite highly for the quality of the undergraduate experience.</p>

<p>You, I guess, are making that distinction that Dartmouth does not qualify to be considered a rival for applicants because postings on this Board, and admission rates, seem to support your contention that "the average person at Dartmouth cannot get into to Princeton?" I don't agree that either support that contention. </p>

<p>Have at it though. (But I am bowing out at this point).</p>

107

<p>Its not just Princeton's prestige that makes it as good as it is. I could divulge into why but I am tired right now.</p>

<p>Moreover, I am not too sure what this acceptance rate debate is proving. If acceptance rates measured prestige, most of the ivies would not crack the top 10 on USNEWs. Moreover, I would seriously like to know which programs at Dartmouth are stronger than Princeton's. I would like to know how they are "academic rivals." When my friend went to a Princeton hockey game (I think it was hockey), all the Princeton kids shouted, "Dartmouth was my safety!" lol So, with those comments, I would bet that they are athletic rivals. But I cannot think of ONE program that Dartmouth excels in moreso than Princeton. Which programs stick out as particularly noteworthy?</p>

108

<p>All I have to say is had Princeton accepted transfers (and I got in) I would have gone there for the prestige. I am so glad they didnt because I can't imagine anything better than being a big green alum. I wouldnt trade it for anything.</p>

109

<p>Agreed. Princeton's prestige is tantalizing, but I'm sure you made the right choice, slipper.</p>

110

<p>Devil May Cry:</p>

<p>I have read many of your posts and the majority reek of someone with the sort of self-satisfied haughtiness that unnerves even the most temperate of posters. Do you get some sort of perverse pleasure out of going onto another schools home board and acting like a smug, self-satisfied troll? Are you pleased with yourself?</p>

<p>Perhaps the only reason you still infect the Dartmouth Board with your off-putting jabber is because you feel some sort of buyer’s remorse. After all, Duke did fair pretty poorly in the “Revealed Preference” rankings. (And I can tell that you’re a bona fide rankings fanatic.) If Princeton is your Holy Grail, then why aren’t you going there? Did you not apply or were you, as someone who was admitted to Dartmouth, a victim of stanmaster’s bulletproof contention that “the average person in dartmouth most likely cant get into Princeton”?</p>

111

<p>
[quote]
"i am quite sure that the average person in dartmouth mosty likely cant get into princeton but a princeton admit has a very high chance at dartmouth. "

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Come to think of it, Stan (and you know I have mad love for ya ) you accepted to Dartmouth but didn't even apply to Princeton. I know it this could not have been because you thought you couldn't get in because you got accepted to Yale and turned it down for Stanford.</p>

112

<p>lol love ya too sybbie.
i didnt apply to princeton because i wasnt attracted to it at all. i would go to dartmouth over princeton any day because I liked it better. but when i think of my chances at dartmouth and chances at princeton i cant help to think that i had a much better shot at dartmouth. I just see princeton as so much more of a crap shoot. do you agree?</p>

113

<p>I think its delusional to think Dartmouth is as hard to get into as Princeton. Its hard, but its not as hard as Princeton. DMC I back you up for defending reality. Dartmouth is sweet and most alumni don't care whether its better or worse than HYPS becuase frankly they love the place. I found a much larger inferiority complex at Columbia.</p>

114

<p>When you look at the Ivies as a whole taking in so few students (even Cornell if you back out the number of students admitted to the land grant Universities) I think all of them are a crap shoot. </p>

<p>It becomes a frenzy fueled by various media rankings, revealed preferences, etc. Overall by their own accord Princeton has become very savvy as manipulating their admissions.</p>

115

<p>Devil May Cry:</p>

<p>"I have read many of your posts and the majority reek of someone with the sort of self-satisfied haughtiness that unnerves even the most temperate of posters."</p>

<p>Obviously you are not one of those temperate posters. Your posts elucidate that. :)</p>

<p>"Do you get some sort of perverse pleasure out of going onto another schools home board and acting like a smug, self-satisfied troll? Are you pleased with yourself?"</p>

<p>What does self gratification have to do with it? Am I not allowed to be here? The last time I checked this was an inclusive place. If I was self satisfied, I would have said Duke is better than Dartmouth. I gave my opinion and obviously you are too self righteous and indulgent to even accept a viewpoint from a coterie (Stan, mensa, myself) of people.</p>

<p>"Perhaps the only reason you still infect the Dartmouth Board with your off-putting jabber is because you feel some sort of buyer’s remorse. After all, Duke did fair pretty poorly in the “Revealed Preference” rankings. (And I can tell that you’re a bona fide rankings fanatic.)"</p>

<p>And you are not? The very fact that you sought to point that out speaks volumes not only of your contradicting statements, but of your character. You don't know me and I prefer it this way. You have no right to presume what my intentions are. I could easily say your inane and ersatz comments are stemming from an inferiority complex and your own buyer's remorse. But I chose not to. Moreover, please stop being redundant, we all get the message. :)</p>

<p>Edit: With all due respect, I can point at multifarious rankings that put Duke at a substantial level ahead of Dartmouth, but I choose not to because it would be pointless and not akin to what I believe. Duke=Dartmouth IMO</p>

<p>"If Princeton is your Holy Grail, then why aren’t you going there? Did you not apply or were you, as someone who was admitted to Dartmouth, a victim of stanmaster’s bulletproof contention that “the average person in dartmouth most likely cant get into Princeton”?"</p>

<p>Wow your comments are so flagrantly rude that it is unreal. I never made that comment and I could care less about going to Princeton. My course has already been set. Also, do not insult me by presuming that I could not get in and show some infinitesimal drop of civility. I am not trying to allay not going to Princeton, but you probably would not believe me anyway.</p>

116

<p>"Xanatos, what's your problem?</p>

<p>Stop being a jerk (I won't say what I really want to since parents read these forums) and insulting people for no reason. Stop launching jeremiads into a harmless thread. You seem to take a personal investment into this debate, and it's really quite pathetic.</p>

<p>Cheers."</p>

<p>If this isn't self-satisfied and smug then I don't know what is. </p>

<p>And yes, you are allowed to express your opinion, but you have beaten the point into the ground. The majority of us, in our heart of hearts, know well and good that Princeton is more prestigious then Dartmouth. Repeatedly stating this fact, however, seems to be in poor taste. We get the point, no need to rub it in the faces of people who you can assume are Dartmouth enthusiasts.</p>

117

<p>I apologize if it appeared this way. That was not my intention and I truly regret it. I wrongly assumed my comments on Princeton were appropriate in a thread dedicated to rivalry. I abandoned sentimentalism and that was wrong.</p>

<p>Sorry.</p>

118

<p>i would have to say that dmouth's rival would have to be a school that is similiar in size and for that it would be princeton.. also both schools tend to be more conservative than brown etc.. i would agree with the one that said middlebury, williams etc.. but those are not ivy league's so it wouldn't make sense... since as we all know the ivy league is a sports league..</p>

119

<p>I apologize as well, DMC.</p>