Daughter got accepted, not sure I can afford it

Parents Forum
1

<p>Well my daughter was accepted to her #1 choice school. A small private LAC in the northwest, where she will study European history. I'm VERY proud of her, she worked very hard to make it happen and she has her heart set on going there.</p>

<p>I'd love for her to go there, but it will be a huge financial stretch for us. I'm currently unemployed, that actually helped us get some aid from the school, bringing it down to an almost workable number $32,000 for 2011-2012. But still will be very difficult financially. We are going to sell our house, to get rid of our big mortgage to make it possible. I'm ok with that part anyway, want to get out from under the oppression of the mortgage payments. We also have an older kid in a Cal state college.</p>

<p>I'll be employed soon most likely, so next year I doubt we'll get any aid. Even if we can swing the first year's tuition, future years could be out of reach financially $48,000. We don't have much savings so most costs will be financed with our incomes, and stafford loans. Maybe a little help from family.</p>

<p>On top of all that, I'm of the opinion that future success and happiness are not determined by what undergrad program a student goes to, especially when she is planning to study History, with limited income potential. Honestly I don't think it's worth the high cost for a private undergrad degree, vs. a UC or other state's top tier program.</p>

<p>Our daughter's future income potential isn't the highest priority for us. She loves history so I'm supportive of that major. The individual determines their level of success though drive and determination. I believe a state school education can be pretty darn good, it is what the student makes of it, and will not be a limiting factor for a happy and productive life. And oh yeah, it's A LOT cheaper.</p>

<p>Option 1: we let her go to her dream school, knowing that she may have to transfer out due to lack of money after the first year. If this happens what others schools will take her? I don't know how that works.</p>

<p>Option 2: go somewhere cheaper from the beginning, she's also applied to Oregon (decent chance of acceptance) , U of Washington (not likely to be accepted, marginal stats), UC Irvine (possible but a stretch). Then she has backups like SJSU & SF State, which she REALLY doesn't want to go to.</p>

<p>If I say no to her first choice, and she is forced to go to SJSU for example, because she doesn't get accepted to any of the others, she'll hate me forever I fear. Ok maybe not forever, but for a long time. She is well aware of our financial situation. My wife is willing to do anything to send her to the expensive school, and doesn't care about the consequences to the rest of our life. Living in a tent and eating beans & rice is OK with her, so she says. </p>

<p>Anyone have any similar experiences, or advice? Of course you do.</p>

2

<p>Take a look at this current thread:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1056595-good-news-bad-news.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1056595-good-news-bad-news.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>While not the exact same situation - it is close enough to be useful.</p>

<p>IMO, having her attend dream school for freshman year and then transferring to a lesser school makes no sense whatsoever. Better she should attend a less expensive school for the first 1-2 years and THEN transfer to dream school. </p>

<p>I think you have too many financial variables right now to send her to the pricey school. You don’t have a job - you say you think you’ll be employed soon - but that sounds iffy to me unless you have an offer. You mention selling your house - again - hard to predict how long it will take to sell and what you will sell it for, right?</p>

<p>She needs to start college at an inexpensive school. A year from now - if you are employed and have sold your house - you might have a very different financial picture and then she can transfer. This will also give her added incentive to do well freshman year so as to enhance her transfer options.</p>

3

<p>simbot, my son was accepted to a number of schools and got great merit…his “top choice” left alot of out of pocket cost vs a free ride here in state with merit aid… i lost so much sleep, argued with son, we had fights etc, i tried so hard to see if i could make it work, i thought if that is what he really wants it was up to me to make it happen…well finally i just had to say it was crazy to go into that much debt, or for the family to have that much at risk, when there was a free ride on the table. He was angry, he said he would hate it, he said well if i have to go, i will hate it and i wont do well…any thing you can think of he said… he wasnt being spiteful, he was upset and disappointed…he had worked so hard and wanted so badly to go into the program at his “dream school”.<br>
Here we are just finishing first semester…he finished with a 4.0 (Presidential Honors) has loved his professors, has already worked on one research paper which will be published, is scheduled to begin more research working with viruses which will eventually be published, is involved in the residence hall committees, is in sci/tech honors, part of his program involves being a TA…and guess what…he is happy! </p>

<p>Your D wont hate you forever!! she will be upset, she may cry, but she will move on, and you will see the wisdom of your/her choice not to accept that level of debt and uncertainty for your family…if she wants to, she can make it work and be happy (eventually)</p>

4

<p>I loathe the term “dream school.” Truly. Far too many tears have been shed over this false notion that there is only match for any student. And it should be law that a student must pick a true safety school (affordable and would happily attend) before sending out any applications. </p>

<p>Your daughter is no doubt getting mixed signals from you and your wife as you two are not on the same page. Start with a blunt conversation with your wife. In a tent, beans and rice and so on are good in theory but not realistic. Decide how much you can really afford and share that number with your daughter. Apologize for not being more clear earlier in the process. Tell her you wish more than anything that she could go but it’s not financially possible. </p>

<p>Personally, I think letting her go to the expensive school with the idea of having her possibly transfer after one year is cruel. That is the one option I would not allow.</p>

5

<p>wise words pmk! and agree the idea of a transfer later is a bad one…
only caveat i would say is that, the safety school for my son is the one he is now going to…it was fine up until so called “better” acceptances came along, then it wasnt what he wanted.</p>

6

<p>This is from the perspective of a high school senior:</p>

<p>Ignore everyone else who has replied before me. None of us knows every detail about your situation. All these parents are trying to tell you what to do, but I say none of us can. Sit down with your family and talk it out. That’s about the only advice I can give.</p>

<p>Some of the parents on College Confidential hold very little credibility in a teenager’s point of view and maturity which I personally resent (being a teenager). You might be surprised at what your daughter has to say. But ultimately the situation is that she hasn’t gotten all her decisions back so the future is still very much up in the air. You still have time. </p>

<p>Good luck. You’ll work something out WITH your wife AND your daughter.</p>

7

<p>I say - setup the tent in the backyard and get a bag of rice (probably only a small one needed) and have your W try sleeping in it a few nights. It wouldn’t be fun and she needs to take a more practical view of this.</p>

<p>That college is not worth the extra money above and beyond a UC/CSU if it’ll jeopardize your future. There are times when one has the extra finances for some luxuries in life and times when they don’t and it sounds as if right now you don’t and attending that LAC is, in fact, a luxury. If you could afford fairly readily, even if it meant foregoing some of your own luxuries like vacations, new cars, etc. yet it wouldn’t impact your retirement or other safety nets, then fine, it may be something you’d want to spend the money on.</p>

<p>‘Dream school’? Really? I always question this concept. Sure, there are schools that would be nicer to attend than others, some that are better fit, etc. but has she really been ‘dreaming’ about this school her entire life? I doubt it. She might not have even heard of it until a year or two ago. </p>

<p>You mentioned two CSUs that happen to be local to your area which might be part of the reason she doesn’t want to attend them. She might not want to live at home and commute, which is understandable (but still a luxury IMO) but there’s an ‘in-between’ her expensive dream LAC and the lower cost local CSU commuting college - i.e. a UC or CSU elsewhere where she can live on campus. Again, it’s still a luxury but arguably one that may be worth the investment and even then the total bill will be less than the LAC.</p>

<p>Edit - cross posted with pugmad on the ‘dream school’ concept.</p>

<p>Nervous - the OP came here seeking input given what was stated in the OP’s post. Obvously no one here knows all the specific details and we’re just providing input and perspectives that may be useful to the OP or the OP may just ignore it completely. Different perspectives and options can be helpful in making decisions so hopefully the OP will NOT ignore the other posts here and will at least mull over some of the ideas.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>This is a story as old as time. I well remember being a teenager and feeling the exact same way. We have some very mature teens on here whose opinions I very much respect but we also have teens who believe they are mature and insist on respect, which does not work here or in the real world. Actions always speak louder than words.</p>

<p>One thing I truly did not understand until I was completely supporting myself was how money works. The fact that somethings are not financially possible, no matter how hard I worked, no matter how much I felt I deserved it, no matter how many other people thought I deserved it took awhile to grasp. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m sure they are going to talk with her and hopefully she will be ready to do her part and embrace a less expensive alternative. But if she is insisting on the first choice school, unless she says, “I have $100,000 saved up”, then she can talk until she’s blue in the face and it won’t change the basic financial facts.</p>

9

<p>Unfortunately it’s too late to apply to Chico State and Sonoma State, which might have been more appealing campuses than SJSU or SFSU. </p>

<p>As far as selling your house, make sure you do all the math, comparing your actual mortgage payment (net of mortgage and property tax deductions) vs the cost of renting (very expensive in the Bay Area). If you receive a boatload of cash from the sale of your house and park it in a money market account, that cash will add 5.6% to your calculated EFC. You may well decide that selling your house is the right move, but please sell it with a full understanding of its impact on both financial aid and your household budget.</p>

<p>With an unemployed parent, surely your daughter must realize the importance of economizing and making smart financial decisions. Living at home and attending SJSU for a couple of years at $8000/year vs $32-$48,000/year at the dream school could make a huge difference to your family’s financial health.</p>

10

<p>You say you are going to be “employed soon most likely”. What happens if you don’t get employed?</p>

<p>Selling your house for your kid to attend her “dream school” is silly and not a good move.</p>

11

<p>+1 to pmk’s post.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Simbot, can I ask which LAC this is and what its specific policies are regarding financial aid? Since you currently have zero income, you should be able to negotiate with the school for a reasonable FA package. If you are unemployed and are still required to pay $32,000 a year, that suggests to me that either your wife has a high income or that your family has savings… My parents don’t earn much either, but my tuition, room and board, health insurance, and most of everything else are paid entirely by my undergraduate college’s financial aid. Perhaps you are unaware of the LAC’s aid policies?</p>

<p>Having to sell your house for your daughter to attend college would be both too extreme and completely unnecessary. How about you offer a certain amount of tuition to your daughter and have her decide for herself how she wants to the spend the money? She can either choose for herself to attend the private LAC and make up for the cost by taking out loans herself to pay back later, once she graduates and gets her own job, or save the money for herself by choosing a more affordable option. That way, it’s her own choice to make, she’ll know that you have trust in her, and she won’t be able to blame you for taking away her opportunity to attend her dream school in the future.</p>

13

<p>Simbot, how much do you and your wife have in savings for your retirement? </p>

<p>How well are houses selling in your neighborhood, and how much are comparable houses selling for? </p>

<p>Is your wife working? Do you have health insurance coverage?</p>

14

<p>From pmk:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I was driving home listening to The Promised Land, by Springsteen, then came in and read the above posts. I was struck by the similarity between pmk’s comments and Springsteen’s:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>By the way, I agree with them.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>The vast majority of colleges do not offer gift aid packages covering 100% of costs for low/moderate-income families. It’s likely that the school in question doesn’t have those kind of endowment resources.</p>

<p>It is absolutely crazy to take out loans for a $48,000-per-year college. You’re talking about maybe $150,000 in debt, that will balloon to $200,000 including interest, with your daughter responsible for monthly payments of $1,700.</p>

16

<p>As painful as it may be for her, the best option at this point IMHO is to do 2 years at a local state/uni campus, for her to continue excelling, and then transfer to her “dream school”. Not only will this be a much more financially prudent option, she may better transfer options than her “dream school” at that later point. </p>

<p>Many high school classmates who initially attended the state/city flagship because of family finances and/or lackluster HS stats ended up “transferring up” to topflight SLACs like Reed and universities like Cornell, Columbia, and Brown after 1-2 years. </p>

<p>Only negatives about this option is an abbreviated experience at the “dream school”, the need to plan carefully for transfer applications…especially when many schools have maximum credit limits they’ll accept once admitted…or to even apply(i.e. You may need to completely forgo AP/IB credits to maintain transfer eligibility within that 2 year limit), and lesser time to build close relationships with history Profs in case she wishes to later attend a topflight grad program in European history. However, these issues can be overcome with time, good planning, and adequate perspective.</p>

17

<p>xrcalico23, I agree with you. When my Ds were applying to schools we told them how much we could contribute to the tuition bills ahead of time. Whether that amount was applied to cover all of a state school tuition or part of a private or out of state school was up to them. The remainder of the cost would need to be covered by other means (student loans, summer job, etc.) They made the decision. Of course, we talked about this ahead of time so it did impact the schools that they chose to apply to. Neither D applied to a private reach school knowing that it would be unlikely, if they even got in, that they would get merit money. They did apply to public reaches (one of them is attending that one).</p>

<p>I think that laying it out on the table is the kindest approach and it gives the daughter the opportunity to look at the situation and make a decision based on the reality. There will definitely be disappointment but less if the decision is with her and not for her.</p>

18

<p>You can expect a good LAC to be MUCH better educationally for a major such as history than a state school.</p>

<p>It’s fine to go only where you can afford it, but at least accept you are giving up something meaningful for the saving.</p>

19

<p>That’s a pretty blanket statement you’re making.</p>

<p>Better than a third-tier directional state school? Probably.</p>

<p>Better than a top-flight state flagship with a department featuring a diverse array of topical specialists? Arguably not.</p>

<p>Either way, there’s nothing being “given up” here because there was never anything possible in the first place. Racking up six-figure student loan debt for a European history BA would be catastrophically stupid.</p>

20

<p>

</p>

<p>Stafford undergrad loan limits are $5500 for freshmen, $6500 for sophomores, and $7500 for juniors/seniors. The cumulative lifetime limit is $31K. That total doesn’t even cover 1/4 of the cost you’re contemplating and it sounds like your family hasn’t been able to save significantly in the past. I’m not being snarky, but why do you think that you’ll be able to adjust your lifestyle enough to pull an extra $30K+/year out of current income? Getting wrapped up in large Plus or private loans, or even co-signing loans, will likely affect your ability to help your younger child(ren), if you have any, and may well affect your lifestyle in retirement. Parents who take large loans for the first few years sometimes find they suddenly can’t qualify in junior/senior year. </p>

<p>I would treat this acceptance as an “admit/deny” and immediately pull it off the table. I’ve had to do this with my kids and it worked out perfectly fine…kids are very resiliant and highly adaptable creatures at that age. I try to discuss such things in a business-like manner, explaining and demonstrating how aid and loans work (finaid.org has excellent info and loan calculators), complete with Excel spreadsheet, yellow legal pad, and sharpened pencils. When the idea of taking out more than the Staffords came up, I expressed my fear that excessive debt would gut their freedom and choices as adults and then had them read a few stories on the Project on Student Debt website. They immediately moved on to plan B and now say they wouldn’t consider transferring to that original favorite even if it were free…they’re happy and getting great educations for a reasonable cost at their (public) schools. YMMV</p>