<p>bopambo: no, not USC. Our experience was in New England.</p>
<p>bluesky - if you are willing - you might want to post the name of the school - just so others are forewarned. There was another poster a few months back who had a somewhat similar situation at Connecticut College - where the FA for sophomore year was much worse than that given for freshman year. I can’t remember how that one ended - whether the student transferred out or how they resolved it. My feeling is this sounds somewhat unethical - maybe bordering bait-and-switch and if you feel comfortable posting the name of the school it might save another family hassles down the road.</p>
<p>Thanks very much blueskytwilight. So this happens in more than one place, it’s a scary thought. Last spring my S was accepted to an elite NE LAC who claimed to meet 100% financial need but who had adopted a formula that had no relation to our FAFSA or CSS profile. They too presented us with loan options. S was heartbroken and we were scrambling to figure out what we could do. Luckily, he also received a nice scholarship at another not so selective LAC that he liked a lot. He let us off the hook by choosing the one without the loans, a mature kid thank heavens. These circumstances can be incredibly heart wrenching.</p>
<p>I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread. I wanted to say that big $/college decisions are tough and wish the OP’s family the best. The pressure is very high for parents. And I wanted to say thanks for this thread and the down-to-earth comments from parents.</p>
<p>My family wants to put the old-school $$ dilemma behind us, it still hurts to be honest. I’m not going to give more specifics about the school. I will tell you I truly don’t think it was a case of bait and switch, nothing unethical like that. Here’s my hunch. My wife and I are both self-employed and our income fluctuates; also our family situation is atypical. So I think the FA office saw some gray areas in 2007-08 and decided to use grants for my daughter. In the years since, with a much tighter economy, I think the FA office looked at gray areas and chose loans instead of grants.</p>
<p>bopambo referred to a school that “claimed to meet 100% financial need but who had adopted a formula that had no relation to our FAFSA or CSS Profile.” Right, that was our experience exactly. The formulas they were using are obviously flexible.</p>
<p>Just note that the LAC financial aid experience can go the other way as well. During my older d.'s four years, my wife was treated for an aggressive form of breast cancer (which obviously cut into our family income), and no sooner was she cured than I had a major heart attack. In both cases, the school - Smith College (I want to sing their praises) increased our financial aid, for which we are very, very grateful.</p>
<p>Incidentally, it is much more helpful on these threads when folks name the schools in question. You won’t get sued, and wise folks won’t necessarily generalize from your individual experience, but we all learn a lot more when we have access to the largest pool of information.</p>
<p>bopambo–I have a student at USC and am interested in your comment. Each year on CC we hear of a few unhappy FA adjustments but each and every one (when investigated) happened to students whose famly FAFSA changed significantly – with Self-owned business, inheritance, siblings who no longer were also in college, etc. In many cases, this may still make a school unaffordable to a student, so I’m very sympathetic, but the FinAid at USC has been very generous and consistent to most. For those taking note who may have students applying.</p>
<p>Examine the basis of the LAC being the number one school. Is that basis worth the sacrifice the of the all the parties involved? It may be; not all decisions are made with the balance sheet as the only criterion. Certainly it is worth some reflection. Maybe D needs to take a year off after her freshman year and save $5-10k in order to help defray the cost. The LAC will surely grant a leave of absence.</p>
<p>Going to a state school for a year or two is a sound plan that will result in a degree from the institution of choice. Is co-oping an option?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Count me among those who disagree with this statement. It’s doubtful whether you lose anything by pursuing history at a flagship state school, but it seems beyond doubt at an honors college. </p>
<p>Just my opinion, but I view this as the kind of situation where there’s no reason to overpay, even if finances are no issue.</p>
<p>
Do people really think the education in the history major at the LAC will be much better (or even as good as) that received from UCB/UCLA? Even if one is convinced it’s somehow better, which is tough to quantify, is it really worth an extra $75-100K for the UG degree? IMO - no way. People need to be realistic and realize that the education achieved isn’t directly proportional to the cost of the education. I’m not saying that the LAC shouldn’t be considered - if the student thinks she’ll prefer it there then the family needs to consider if it’s worth the cost according to their means. For some people it’s not a big deal and clearly worth it and for some others it’s clearly not worth it due to their inability to afford it and then there’s everyone somewhere between these two extremes who have to really consider the question.</p>
<p>bluesky - Your situation sounds like it was really frustrating, especially because of the dramatic difference in dollar amount. </p>
<p>For others - the bluesky school’s strategy of systematically reducing grants while increasing loans yearly may not be that unusual. That’s what my undergraduate institution (Carnegie-Mellon) did to me back in the day, and they also did the same to fellow students. It caused some serious scrambling for our family.</p>
<p>This is something that we should all be aware of - perhaps a thread to share what we’ve learned about different institutions? As a parent, it seems that it would be a crucial piece of information.</p>
<p>Just want to add that these decisions sometimes depend on the particular kid. One of my 3 would never do well at a large state university. She needs small discussion-based classes, no distribution requirements, and an intimate size. We would do just about anything to help her go to a school that fits. Our other two would thrive most anywhere.</p>
<p>I will admit that I did not read through this whole thread, but I do have some expereince with the issue presented by the OP. DD is currently in her second year at a school she applied to because I asked her to because of the great merit scholarships it offered and she was eventually awarded.</p>
<p>We could have paid the whole bill to any of the schools where she was accepted without selling the house or taking other drastic measures, but it would have come with some sacrifices. DD took the scholarship and hasn’t looked back. </p>
<p>Someone made a comment (really a crack) at a party this holiday season about her parents paying her tuition. She said, “My parents don’t pay my tuition. I earned a tuition scholarship.” I know that she is very proud of the contribution she makes to paying her own way, so to speak. Of course, we are proud of her as well for making a very mature decision two years ago to pass on the acceptances to three fairly prestigious schools and attend a top fifty OOS public.</p>
<p>What the choice has done for her is that the school she attends gave her generous credit for her AP work and those fulfilled many of her general requirements. That gives her more flexibility to study a variety of things. It has been a good choice for her. Best wishes as you and your family move through the search, OP.</p>
<p>*Option 1: we let her go to her dream school, knowing that she may have to transfer out due to lack of money after the first year. If this happens what others schools will take her? I don’t know how that works.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>This is crazy. Attending a dream school for freshman year is worthless.</p>
<p>As far as what your wife is saying…many spouses find it hard to say no about dream schools, and claim that they don’t care about how it affects family expenses, but in reality when the family has an unexpected major expense, those spouses quickly realize how unwise their statements were.</p>
<p>Madbean - of course, I don’t know the particulars of this USC student’s family finances. We were at a party and the discussion got around to colleges and a young woman related her story. Bluesky’s story sounded so similar I just had to ask.</p>
<p>Simbot, it just occurred to me that it’s December 26th. Your daughter could still get out a couple more applications before most deadlines. Do you think she might consider schools where she’s in a good position to get merit aid? After following this thread I’m even more strongly convinced that merit aid is the best way to go for those of us who can’t pay $50,000 +++ a year.</p>
<p>
Count me among those who would doubt this statement. A state honors college is not, and never will be, the same experience as an LAC. Comparable? Well, depends on what basis of comparison you’re using, but they WILL be different in areas like class size and social intimacy.</p>
<p>The OP is not considering LAC vs. UCB/UCLA, although even then, concern about class size is especially pertinent. UC Irvine is a reach, according to the OP.</p>
<p>I have seen many people go unhappily to their safeties, planning to transfer, and then never do well enough to transfer… It’s a risky plan. IMO, better to attend a match (e.g. U of Oregon, if you can afford the OOS cost) if that’s an option. Transfer financial aid, merit- or need-based, is few and far in between.</p>
<p>I actually don’t mind the term “dream school” that much… just remember that DREAMS ARE NOT REAL. </p>
<p>Since the OP is not in the situation of oppressive loans, this becomes the usual debate of cost vs. value. People value education for diverse reasons, and the educational “value” of a school can vary considerably based on those reasons.</p>
<p>It’s crazy to start at a school where you don’t have a viable plan for paying for all 4 years. College education gets interrupted and sometimes never gets finished. That would be the real tragedy…</p>
<p>
‘Different’ doesn’t translate directly to a ‘better education’ when measured in terms of knowledge of the subject matter in the end. Neither does a smaller class size. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn’t. There are all kinds of general differences between a small LAC and a large university (state or private) that are more ‘experience’ related and not necessarily directly related to the actual education. And of course there are differences from LAC to LAC and large Uni to large Uni. Some people want the attributes of the small LAC (smaller class size, perhaps more coddling, etc.), some want the attributes of the large uni (more majors/courses/profs, more sports, more activities, more research, more anonymity, less coddling, etc.) and there are those, probably most, who could handle either one and adapt well to either.</p>
<p>It is so difficult when as a parent we have always been able to get our children whatever they wanted. The thing is, a private college education costs enough that it can have a life time financial effect on a family. A pricey laptop, spending too much on a prom outfit or any other outfit, even getting a car does not come up to a quarter million in costs. You can buy a nice house for that amount of money. It’s a nice nest egg for retirement, a cushion against all kind of emergencies. This is not an amount that most of us can absorb within a year, or within 5 years or even 10 years. </p>
<p>We waited till all of the options were on the table for our boys. We foolishly paid for our first one’s college with no thought of the implications, and believe me, we felt that and are still feeling this 8 years later, and will continue to feel it for the next 6 years. Especially painful as we have 4 more after him. That our second picked a state school, got merit money there was really what saved us. If he had wanted the same type of school at the price as his brother, it would been untenable. We got a 3 year reprieve where we almost could afford it. </p>
<p>So poorer but wiser, we looked at S3’s options nearly 3 years ago. He had choices ranging from close to $60K a year to a free ride with bonus. His first choice was a small LAC with a sticker price close to but not quite the highest, but offering a small merit award. His second choice was college offering half price. Our first choice for him was an instate option at Cornell which though much pricier than our SUNY costs, were a little more than half price. </p>
<p>He talked to his first choice school, submitted his other options to them,explained our point of view and told them he really wanted to go there if the finances could be worked out. The college did ante up some more money, not quite enough, but then an outside scholarship rolled in and he snagged a high paying summer job. We did the numbers and though it was the absolute maximum we could pay without problems, it was in the doable range. </p>
<p>I’d love to say all went well, but we got hit the second year with tuition and room/board increases. The outside scholarship was only for a year. He ran into some problems that necessitated 2 very expensive flights home and we got left holding the bag for those extra costs. Son did work 3 jobs that summer and paid back some of the overages. This year, he won a grant which replaces the outside scholarship and has a nice on campus job that more than makes up the cost increases as well as being in an apartment and off the meal plan, meeting those costs himself. He will forego his spring trip home and has a job there which will pay for some costs. He also has found a book source that has brought those expenses down to very little. </p>
<p>It won’t be until 2012 before we start seeing a decrease in loan payments for S1’s college. Not till 2016 that those loans are paid. And we have another one going to college next year and yet another in 2015. It’s a long sentence to serve for that decision to let our first one go where he pleased without regard to cost. </p>
<p>This is without S1 himself taking on any debt. Had he done so, it would have been a true travesty for him. We took his loans (we only had him take them because he got lower interest rates). Though he went to a top 25 national university, he has barely been making enough to meet his own expenses and is living with us. At age 27, he finally has gotten a good job and when his car payments end in a couple of months, can start thinking about getting his own place. And here we are still in the throngs of school loan payments for him. </p>
<p>Just some food for thought.</p>
<p>great post cptofthehouse. and totally agree with the premise of your first sentence…that was how we felt for our S2…when making a financially prudent decision to take a free ride (our first son also got to go to the school of his choice and that also was a part of our heated discussions)
I think we all have to consider that we can only speak from our own experience…if our children/we attended a wonderful LAC then that is the best, if we/our child attended a state school for financial reasons primarily, then that is the best. And possibly a part of us has to justify the decision we make.
I would disagree with keil, in that a wonderful. close intimate and academically challenging situation can be found at a state U… my son is in one, actually 2, at his school.<br>
I really think the student that makes the best of where he is, is in the best place. A student can excel at a state U or a private U or an LAC…it is largely up to them.</p>