Daughter got accepted, not sure I can afford it

Parents Forum
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<p>Many kids are in a fragile mental state during these transition years to adulthood, so it’s often not just a matter of “what floats my boat” in terms of atmosphere. As a parent, it’s wise to try to determine how important certain things are for your child. I have close friends who are public, in state school advocates, hard core. But they were wise enough to realize that one of their kids was borderline at best in getting through college and a big impersonal type of state school that is primarily commuter was not going to help the odds. They were right. It is a judgment call. </p>

<p>Though financially, we are hurting with S3’s choice, even with his contributions to the cost, it was truly the right school for him. He loves it and the special features of his small LAC are what he is most savoring. He has come from a mediocre student (very bright but just not interested in doing the school work) to an excellent scholar. The small school atmosphere has truly worked for him, and his knowing that this is a financial stretch has motivated him to help more than he would have. If we had to make the decision again, we would do the same.</p>

<p>We wasted our money with S1. He would have been fine at a SUNY. All of this with great hindsight.</p>

<p>We are agonizing over what we will do with S4. He truly wants to go to a number of schools that are going to really be a tight fit for us. A SUNY would make our lives so much easier.</p>

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<p>@blossom - I had written a whole paragraph in my previous post about why the OP could NOT afford D’s LAC. Then I read that he would be paying primarily out of income, except for Stafford loans (a reasonable exception). I deleted that entire paragraph, because the situation had changed to value rather than affordability–of how much risk to take on, rather than taking on impossible debt. Other posters have speculated/warned about multiple children down the line, but what if the OP’s D is an only child? Or has a sibling, but 10 years down the line? Don’t always assume worst-case scenario.</p>

<p>The original post acknowledges that the OP thinks his D would get a great education in European history at her LAC. Not knowing any more details than that, I will assume that his belief is true. There are also loads of state Us (especially when you’re talking about non-flagships, as the OP has specified) where a good portion of the history majors are there only because it’s considered an “easy” major. That’s not even getting into enrollment pressures. The OP isn’t considering UConn, but Cal States.</p>

<p>I admit that I know very little about Cal States, other than that most students who have a choice between a “top” Cal State and a “top” or even middling UC will choose the UC. But since the OP has not named his D’s LAC, school-to-school comparisons are really futile. I don’t think it’s bad advice to assume that the OP has made a valid judgment (which is subjective in many ways) that the best education for his daughter would be at her preferred LAC, and the question is whether/how much a financial compromise is required. On that point, it’s fine to debate how comparable state U is to LAC, but the OP has already decided that if finances WEREN’T an issue, LAC would be the obvious choice. And unlike the first half of the thread, OP has also clarified that no huge loans would be taken.</p>

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<p>Interesting article (with interesting research findings) in last week’s New York Times. “Is Going to an Elite College Worth the Cost?” by Jacques Steinberg.
Link:
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/weekinreview/19steinberg.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/weekinreview/19steinberg.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Because it is very important in these economic times to have accurate information, in CA </p>

<p>1) Graduating a UC in 4 yrs is the norm. AP’s coming in and the yearly review called MCP (min. cumulative progress) which tracks each students units each year pushes the student right along. Also, a cap of units over all (for the qtr UC it is 220 units) is enforced and if more classes are needed to finish the major, permission to continue needs to be granted. CA wants full time students out in 4 years for economic and crowding reasons.
2)Administration points out at every orientation that most required classes are offered every year if not every qtr., but may be a 9 am class or 6 pm class. The student themselves very often pass on taking the class because of times and then get into a jam and the parent assumes the class was not offered.
3) When discussing the UC’s check out the avg. GPA/AP,Honors/test scores of the “middle” UC’s. And take into consideration the averages includes under performing HS grads stats too. “Middle” is an out dated notion regarding UC’s. (Merced is new, and still getting going)</p>

<p>Over and over again, the students and parents paying for UC are not reporting 5-6 year graduation rates. It’s always a story somebody heard, much like urban myths.</p>

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<p>I personally knowing 2 UCB graduates who did indeed graduate in 4 years because they took classes every summer of their UCB careers. That was the only way they accomplished it. That was before the economic meltdown and all the most recent budget cuts. These kids had work/study jobs that may have limited their ability to take some of the offered times as Olympiclady suggests, but what comes first the chicken or the egg? They had to work because they had to pay for year-round school expenses.</p>

<p>When my son walked into his counselor’s office last year as a senior applying to colleges (I was there) the first thing she said to him was that with all the budget cuts happening at the UCs he ought to know that 4 year graduation would be tough.</p>

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<p>I think the best advice was given by pugmadkate on the very first page of this thread. None of us know your financial situation. None of us know your employment prospects. This is something you need to sit down and hash out with your family, starting with your wife. Once the two of you have agreed on a unified approach, sit down and discuss it with your daughter. </p>

<p>It might be helpful in this instance to consult a financial planner. If you don’t have one for your family, ask around to your friends for recommendations. Sometimes having an outside person who can really crunch the numbers for you is incredibly helpful, as they can provide a voice of reason and explain what exactly you need to do to make X, Y, and Z scenario work. </p>

<p>Now if you want my personal advice (because hey, advice is free right?), I think one year of the dream school might be better than having to go without entirely. I know several students who went to an expensive LAC for a couple of years, then moved back and went to state college when it become unaffordable for their families. Painful? Certainly. But I don’t think they would give up those other years for four years of an OK experience. </p>

<p>Best thing is just to be honest with your D and say “this is how much we can pay, if you want to go the more expensive school, that’s fine, but you’ll have to make up the difference and if in the future your aid package changes and we think that difference is too much debt for you to take on on your own, we’re going to have to explore other options and we’ll needyou to understand that and work with us to make mature and sound financial choices.”</p>

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<p>On the other hand, a student’s best shot at merit or need-based aid is freshman year. Maybe one year at dream school/3 years at OK whatever school is preferable to 4 years at OK whatever school. But what if the choice is one year at dream school/3 years at OK whatever school versus four years at second or third choice pretty amazing grew to love it school? That second or third choice school might end up being affordable during RD, but be too expensive for a sophomore or junior year transfer. </p>

<p>I personally wouldn’t want my kid going off to a school knowing from the get-go that they’re only there for a year, having them falling in love with the experience and knowing it’s all going to be whisked away like Cinderella’s pumpkin coach at midnight.</p>

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<p>Generally, I agree with you SlitheyTove. And I also think the concept of “Dream school” can be really overrated as others have said. Even though she doesn’t know for a fact that she would be whisked away at the end of the year, as it’s not clear what her parent’s financial situation will be moving forward, it’s taking an emotional risk as well as a financial one on all sides. But I just wanted to relate the stories of those that I had known who were involved in a similar situation.</p>

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<p>Bluesky - Wow! That’s heartbreaking. Glad daughter is doing well, though.</p>

<p>OP and other parents reading this - This thread is the reason why parents MUST sit down with their students before they apply to schools and let them know how much $ parents are able/willing to contribute for college. Applications could surely be sent to more expensive colleges, just so the student knows how much the parent is able to contribute.</p>

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<p>I’m currently a freshman attending a private school far away from home in a tight financial position. While this school was able to offer me the best financial aid package, I’ve found myself SO stressed out about money that it impacts my ability to focus on school work or even have fun. I spend a lot of time worrying about loans or finding a third job or what my family is giving up back home because of me, never mind whether the school will give me a comparable amount of aid next year. In reality, my loans are small and tuition after FA is somewhat manageable for my family, but it very much controls me nonetheless. I am graduating in three years with a degree that has a high earning potential solely because I’m too frightened to do otherwise. I can’t imagine taking out as huge of loans as are being suggested here. I think if your daughter realized now the amount of stress the money will have on HER, as well as your family… she’d be more apt to rethink attending this school. The state school that seemed generic and unadventurous to me last year seems like a very comfortable option to me now. It’s hard enough being in school hundreds or thousands of miles from home without having to feel trapped by years of impending financial burden.</p>

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<p>My officemates D at UCLA is a sophomore on track to graduate in 3.5 years. As far as I know, two of my D’s junior BFF’s are on track at UCR and UCSD as well.</p>

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<p>Bern,Please take care.You sound very stressed and sounds like you are assessing options. Either public or private can work depending on finances,major,location. Do what feels best for you .</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. I was out of town for a few days and have been catching up on all the advice. Thanks Bluesky, that story feels very close to home.</p>

<p>A recurring theme has been “have a frank family discussion, let your kid know the realities of your finances” We’ve done this, we’re a very open family. We did it before applying to any schools, and it’s an ongoing, and touchy topic in our house. She’s know al along that if accepted to any of the expensive schools on her list, that we may not be able to afford it. We didn’t want to limit her search based on finances, better to wait and see what happens (financial aid offers), than to not apply and never know. </p>

<p>Let’s see what else? We will not allow our children to leave school with massive debt, I think that’s insane and a burden I don’t want them to carry. We have 2 kids D1 is in her 2nd yr at SJSU. This thread is about D2, no other kids.</p>

<p>Yes, with history as a major, a graduate degree is pretty much mandatory.</p>

<p>The only UC she applied to was Irvine. CSU’s - SJSU & SF State. All the rest are OOS. Some WA & OR state schools. Applied to 12 schools in all.</p>

<p>Last year EFC was over $40k, don’t know what it will be with 2 kids in college. </p>

<p>Regarding finishing in 4 years, I don’t know about UC’s, but at CSU’s it appears to be very difficult. For example at SJSU freshmen are not allow to take more than 14 units. D1 says most of her friends are taking 5 years, including taking some summer & winter classes at JC’s. Given the state’s worsening financial situation, I expect it will become increasingly difficult to get the classes necessary to complete in 4 years, or even 5 years. This state is a mess, if you’re thinking about moving here, don’t.</p>

<p>We are looking OOS for this reason. I realize she can have the on campus college experience close to home, this is exactly what D1 is doing.</p>

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<p>My son has had good results this year in Oregon and Washington (engineering by the way! Any favorites there?). Good luck! He would rather stay in California, but it’s clearly going to be a higher cost of attendance unless he lucks out with the “right” UC or CSU.</p>

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<p>I’ve heard many good things about Irvine’s history department. Though she may be put off by the large class sizes and the massive UC bureaucracy friends who went there experienced, if she works hard, excels academically, and makes a concerted effort to know her Professors well, she could end up at a strong grad program for history or doing many other things. </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, is there a specific geographic area, theme, sub-field she’s interested in studying in European history? </p>

<p>If she ends up hating it there, doing the above could mean great transfer options to her dream LAC or even better LACs for her last two years. IMHO, it is better to go to a cheaper/less selective undergrad for the first year or two and then finish at the “dream school” or better options than the reverse. You’ll get the same degree and the lifelong alum networks from not only one…but also possibly two networks.</p>

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<p>My vote goes to sticking with a school you can afford without extreme measures–contingent on selling a house, etc. We had a very similar situation last year–D, very bright, committed student was accepted at a few top LACs…with zero aid offered (aside from loans). Our EFC was about $15k less than COA…I’d had a really bad year in my business. I just knew I’d never be able to sleep at night if she went to one of those schools.</p>

<p>I laid out the figures for her. We had a ceiling we would pay; the rest would be loans. I told her I didn’t want her ending up with loans over $10-20k max. She actually agreed, and crossed those LACs off the list herself (would’ve been in the neighborhood of $40-$50k in loans for her for those).</p>

<p>She is happy at the state flagship she choose. Very happy! Enjoying great opportunities.
And H & I can sleep at night.</p>

<p>She will have zero debt.</p>

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<p>“This thread is the reason why parents MUST sit down with their students before they apply to schools and let them know how much $ parents are able/willing to contribute for college.” </p>

<p>Yes… but there are cases where parent investment pain point varies by the choices on the table. Often families purchase the best value car, even if in theory they could afford one that is a little nicer and twice the price. </p>

<p>In our case we assured our kids that we’d cover in-state college costs. For more expensive options it was up to them to cover the difference with scholarship, loans, earnings. (Also we parents were prepared to perhaps cover some of the difference IF we felt the value and fit and our job circumstances justified it. But we didn’t know enough about the variables before the college search to commit).</p>

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<p>^ LOVE that!</p>

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<p>I haven’t read every post so I may have missed this…</p>

<p>The OP says older D is going to a Cal State (COA probably about $18k per year). This younger D’s education will likely cost 3 times what the Cal State costs. If such an expense severely cramps the family (especially to the point where the older child feels it), I don’t think this is a good idea. I certainly don’t like the idea of selling the family home to make this work unless the current home is unaffordable no matter what.</p>

<p>Personally, i am not in favor of **grossly **different spending on kids’ college costs without a **serious **reason, unless there is something else done to rather even things up a bit (not calling for perfection, just not gross differences). We have spent more on our second son’s education simply because they’re both at the same school, but one got a better scholarship (about a $25k difference over 4 years). To make things more even, we bought a car for the older son. Second son’s med school will also cost us more than what older son’s uncovered grad school will cost us (S2 will borrow some for that), so we’ll probably help older son with something else. We’ve never tried to even things up to the dollar or anything silly like that, but we have always tried to meet their needs in a way that each feels that they’ve been fairly treated.</p>

<p>Where the OP’s D2 goes to undergrad is far less important than her terminal degree. Certainly, someone who is majoring in European History won’t be stopping at a BA degree (I hope) if she wants to really do anything with that major. </p>

<p>I have several nieces and nephews currently in or recently graduated from the UC and Cal Poly system…all graduated in 4 years or LESS.</p>

<p>Taking longer to graduate is often the student’s fault…not the school’s…(changing majors, dropping classes, refusing to take classes at undesirable times, not taking full loads, etc)</p>

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<p>D went to our local flagship CC & then transferred into private U, where she will be getting her BFA in cinema! She had great instructors at CC who taught the SAME courses at the state flagship U for a small fraction of the cost and had a fraction of the number of students. She got most of her general requirements out of the way at the CC & has been able to take the courses unique to the private U since her transfer with all the CC credits. It has worked well for us and saved us 3 semesters of tuition, plus living expenses.</p>

<p>I would also suggest your child go to a financially affordable U or CC & then consider transferring IF and when your finances are such that it is NOT a huge stretch. Consider the WUE (Western Undergraduate Education) program for schools that offer low tuitions for OOS students if you all feel she must attend an OOS U.</p>