Daughter Hates Her Matches And Safeties

Parents Forum
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<p>Having seen the list (and tried to understand the logic of this kid), I think it would be a great idea to add a safety or two and maybe a match from the midwest. </p>

<p>A lot of her motivations seem to be based on what her peers are thinking/doing and what they will think/say when she finally announces where she is going. She will feel better if her peers haven't heard of the schools where she is applying and possibly attending. It will also help your D to see another part of the country and get out of the narrow mindset that she seems to be trapped in.</p>

<p>(I hope this post doesn't get duplicated and if it does, I apologize).</p>

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<p>I'm assuming that William and Mary is out-of-state in this case.</p>

<p>Unless this applicant is hooked in some way that has not been revealed, or has a walk-on-water academic transcript (top 2% of senior class), or has an outstanding EC interest, she currently has three options on her real college list: Univ of MD, Bucknell, and College of Charleston (which is probably a safety).</p>

<p>Brown is one of the hardest schools in country to get into. Northwestern and Georgetown are brutal because of their highly desireable locations. William and Mary is extremely selective out-of-state with test score ranges about like Georgetown.</p>

<p>I'm assuming that UMD is the in-state option. Does the high school guidance counselor think that's a sure-bet?</p>

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<p>Cindy,</p>

<p>I am having very similar issues with my D...this place is too cold...so and so is applying there so it must not be good...too much partying at such and such. We are also Maryland residents - UMCP does not thrill her, but she will very likely get in. Mine has turned up her nose at College of Charleston, because at her uber competetive HS, it is a safety, and she would be in the high end of applicants FROM HER HS. But I think it is a great school where she'd be very happy if she could just consider the facts. Similar with Elon.</p>

<p>How about Delaware Honors? That app is due December 1, I believe. Another safety/strong match might be University of Pittsburgh (cold, but mostly in one compact area!)? University of Richmond?</p>

<p>I don't have the dilemma of happiness at safety/matches...we have no reach, and I'm not pushing it. </p>

<p>The questions on the Wake supplement were intriguing - she really liked them, but decided not to apply. Her reasoning: she won't get merit aid there.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I just could not see a possibility that a student could love a school he/she could get in for sure.

[/quote]
Please don't let your son see this line, DadII, especially if you are still planning to aim for the zero OOP offers from schools.</p>

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<p>Yes, again, we are aware, like super-aware, like crazy-aware that Brown et al. are a sick reach. She's applying to Brown et al. 'Cause sometimes dreams do come true. Please, let's move beyond the "Wow, she'll never get into those schools!" posts. We <em>know</em> that these schools are reaches. Or REACHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you prefer. (Although . . . I do know people who have been admitted to sick reaches, like a cousin who is a freshman at Penn Wharton when everyone said it was impossible).</p>

<p>But we are not stupid. Which is why I am thinking her list is too top-heavy.</p>

<p>HS guidance counselor thinks she will get into Uof MD, Bucknell and Charleston. Trinity was also suggested by counselor, but D eventually flipped out and said no.</p>

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<p>Has she considered Vanderbilt, Auburn, Univ Delaware Honors, James Madison ( if she wants to stay close)?</p>

<p>Is her UMCP application in so she will be considered for Honors?</p>

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<p>FWIW, my very dear friend's son just graduated from the College of Charleston. Both he and his now-girlfriend majored in Psychology--two different disciplines. They were very happy with their program, professors. And most important, besides falling in love with each other, they fell in love with the school and the city.</p>

<p>My D, needed a summer course in the sciences in the timing they offered (Anatomy), so off to Charleston she went. She loved her experience there--she said the professor was crazy smart, funny and classes were difficult. BUT she also felt she learned more with him than with most classes she'd taken at her home university (one ranked higher). She too, fell in love with the city. What a great place to be. She'd go to the beach, great little restaurants, wonderful unique coffee shops, lots of students walking around, and the gorgeous southern architecture thrown in with the southern hospitality through out. It's pretty terrific.</p>

<p>Too bad you can't get your D to visit. IT's a beautiful campus in a charming city that's recently been ranked one of the top cities in the country to visit for tourists. </p>

<p>If she can learn to love that safety (CofC), it may mean any forthcoming rejections on the reaches/high-matches are moot.</p>

<p>Since she has a friend who attends CofC, isn't there a way to get her to go, despite the burnout?</p>

<p>Best of luck....we went through our own "fun scenarios" with both D and S. It feels like fighting a months-long battle. The good news is that eventually, there is a payoff!</p>

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<p>LOL, cindysphinx. This is CC - once you ask a question, then the thread will take life of its own. People will try their best to answer THE question. Each of us happens to have a slightly different view point so each of us will try to answer the question. </p>

<p>As long as they are "good" heart, it is o.k. There are a couple of mean ones. </p>

<p>I apologize for asking the "reach" question. In your OP you stated that your DD's ACT is within the 50% range of all the top schools. That reads to me is about HPYSM. </p>

<p>This is a very difficult time for all - parents and students. However, if there is one thing I learnt from our DD's process. iit is that "everything will work out alright" . believe me, it WILL all work out comes next May 1st. </p>

<p>bets of luck to your DD.</p>

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<p>cindy, I'm trying to see the unifying characteristic in the schools on her list, some of which are near/in cities and some of which aren't; and some of which are small, medium, and large. Am I right in thinking the most important factor for her is a bright, challenging student body? (And apologies if you've stated this elsewhere in the thread, which I read quickly in an effort to post this before bedtime. :) ) </p>

<p>Since she likes Bucknell, would she consider Muhlenberg? It would be a comfortable match for her, I think, if she can squeeze in a visit to show interest, which is extremely important there. It's a bit smaller than Bucknell, but within an hour of Philadelphia, and in a neat section of Allentown. It shows beautifully - I can't believe she wouldn't get excited about it.</p>

<p>She likes W & M - would she consider University of Richmond? Both have beautiful campuses, though Richmond's is definitely better maintained! Very sharp students there, and metro Richmond offers a lot. A Virginia state school with a very similar feel to W & M is the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg. This, I feel, would be a true safety for your daughter.</p>

<p>You say American is out - is she adamant about that? It wouldn't be a safety (neither would Richmond), but I think it would be a solid match. Wonderful campus with a nice cohesive feel to it, and with the advantage of being in a cool section of DC. Its academic profile is certainly on the rise; some of our high school's most accomplished writers chose American last year. </p>

<p>About W & M: acceptances for OOS females are notoriously difficult. For the entering class of 2007, the acceptance rate for all females was 28% (including both in- and out-of-state); the acceptance rate for all OOS students was 26% (both male and female). I don't know what the specific acceptance rate for OOS females was, but it's not a reassuring figure.</p>

<p>I think calmom has excellent advice in post 74 above. You don't want your d in the basement next fall, and she wouldn't want that, either. Even if she protests, I think she'll eventually be grateful to you if you require a few more safety applications.</p>

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<p>cindysphinx,
Just wanted to add that a close friend of the family is a freshman at CofC. She is in their Honors College and is a VERY bright kid. Skipped a grade and all that. She gets a number of perks being part of their Honors College.</p>

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<p>Ah, OK. DadII. I thought you might be pulling my leg or something, as I saw a very bright line between the top four and the bottom three! </p>

<p>Interesting take on College of Charleston. I gotta tell ya, when she first mentioned that one I probably did a monster eye roll. College of what? But she has kept it on the list. Her friend's good experience has weighed very heavily on her. </p>

<p>I do appreciate all the input. Believe me, I have been searching college web sites most of the night, trying to see if anything really pops. This has been helpful.</p>

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<p>Unifying characteristics on her list?</p>

<p>Well, let's go through them again:</p>

<p>Brown -- M and D know lots of cool people who went there and stayed cool anyway. Least obnoxious Ivy. Academics options and freedom sound fascinating to D.</p>

<p>Georgetown -- cool athletics, right size, cool location. M and D promise not to turn up unannounced. Option to live at home to save money after freshman year.</p>

<p>W&M -- just thought it was cool and beautiful. Sounded serious and prestigious without being Brown.</p>

<p>Northwestern -- knows several people who went there and found it cool. Big enough to offer lots of social and academic options. What's not to like about Chicago?</p>

<p>Bucknell -- liked the tour, liked the tour guide. GC says many peers have gone there and been happy.</p>

<p>C of Charleston -- has very smart friend who could have gone anywhere but decided she wanted to have fun and not work too hard. Friend is happy in honors program and even found a summer job in communications.</p>

<p>U of MD -- if all else fails, pay in-state tuition and save the dough for grad school.</p>

<p>Good luck on the whole "unifying theme" idea!</p>

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<p>I see the theme - cool. LOL Girls, gotta love them.</p>

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<p>Cindy, if you can tell your D that her list is top heavy and needs balance so she can be assured of some options in the spring, and that she needs some matches and safeties....and then suggest some for her to look at and then ask her to list the pros and cons of each one....as others also suggested. I have all my students do this for each suggested school...they list information about it, what appeals, how it matches up with certain criteria they have (remember most schools won't match EVERY criteria, but should match SOME), and list their pros/cons. Then, with this spreadsheet, she can compare/contrast. </p>

<p>Again here are some possible safeties (though without much to go on with your D's profile, it is very hard to say what is safe and what is a match!):</p>

<p>Goucher, Drew, Hofstra, Syracuse, UVM, Penn State, U of Delaware, Gettysburg, Clemson </p>

<p>Possible matches:</p>

<p>Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence, Conn College, Muhlenberg, American, Brandeis, UMiami, Elon, Northeastern, Tulane, Bates, Dickinson, Trinity (CT), James Madison, Wheaton (MA), Fordham, Centre College, Rollins, College of the Holy Cross, U of Michigan, College of New Jersey, Bard, University of Rochester, Davidson, Franklin and Marshall, University of Richmond</p>

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<p>I did not see your post before I posted, Cindy, but your D's college criteria is not too defined. :D</p>

<p>If she liked Brown....why not Wesleyan? Vassar?</p>

<p>If she likes Chicago, why no other schools in that area?</p>

<p>She seems influenced too much by what friends are saying, it seems. </p>

<p>I'd want my kid to write lots of notes on each school and explore it in depth and list what she likes and not about each one. Then, with more specific things written down, it can become clearer. Her reasons right now are very very vague.</p>

<p>If your D does not like UMD, she shouldn't apply. It makes no sense to me. She should like each school enough to attend, even if she doesn't love everything about it (I am not convinced your D knows THAT much about any particular school). Also, if she is willing to attend UMD, a school of that size....not sure why she won't look at U of Delaware, UMich, Indiana U, BU, UMiami, Penn State.</p>

<p>By the way, tell your D that many schools I mentioned in my earlier post are also "cool" and lots of kids I know are happy at them. :)</p>

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<p>Our high school's college counselor calls the top half of that list lottery schools. They get so many applications from qualified applicants that getting accepted becomes more a matter of luck than qualification. </p>

<p>Published college stats can be very misleading. So much of acceptances have to do with the colleges needs and not the qualifications of students applying, that the stats can be misleading. If an engineering school wants females, or a college wants students from different states, or a university wants more tuition income--it distorts the numbers that you see. And that doesn't begin to take into account athletics, majors, needs of the arts and student activities, donors, legacies, etc. Students with something the college wants will be accepted with lower test scores or GPAs than the remaining pool of students.</p>

<p>When he got tired of visiting schools I bought the Walking Tour DVDs of schools that might be possibilities. That helped weed through the choices. But I also dragged him kicking and screaming to a school that I thought that he needed to visit. He would have ruled it out based on the Greek scene and location. But I had heard such good things about the school from people in the field that my son was interested in studying (and who I trusted) that I just had a feeling about it. He was so negative going, that I expected him to tell me that I had wasted his time. Instead, when we left, he shared that the school felt right to him. He is now in his second year there and the fit couldn't be better. </p>

<p>I share that because it is worth the extra research (and teen resistance) to push for a list of schools that your child can get into and thrive in.</p>

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<p>U Pitt, Ursinus, another vote for Gettysburg, CMU if leaning towards humanities...</p>

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<p>I can't believe this thread made it to page 9 before someone (a counselor, to boot) mentioned the ONE college that seems to meet all of her criteria AND may qualify as a bona fide safety: The University of Richmond. What's wrong with that?</p>

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<p>JHS....I think a lot of good schools have been suggested by both myself and many other members. I think even another person may have said U of Richmond too. :)</p>

<p>But I must ask you, as I am confused.....you say it meets all of her criteria....what ARE her criteria? I can't tell! (based on the reasons given for the schools on her current list....seemed vague....."cool" is the common thread and "friends like it"). :) :confused:</p>

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<p>Depending on her GPA, she probably has a very good list for a kid whose main criteria are "cool" and "people I like and admire are at that school. "</p>

<p>If the guidance counselor had indicated the 3 schools are ones she'll get into....and she'd be happy at any of those 3....consider those match schools. She needs one more safety....where her scores and grades put her in the top 25% of admitted students, or where more than 50% of the applicants are admitted. Wake Forest and Colgate are likely more match than safety unless she's at the very top of her class, or has some leadership positions in high profile or unusual EC's.</p>

<p>The OP has explained, as best as possible, why her daughter has chosen that specific list. She's requested positive input on what to add....not why the list may seem unfocused or unrealistic to some of us. Not every 17 and 18 year old knows the specific discipline they want to study or the kind of campus location they want. Finding an affinity with other's at a school is one of the best criteria for choosing a school to apply to if a kid hasn't picked an academic or geographic focus.</p>