<p>I had not thought of this before but then it hit me. I had a student with whom I worked four years ago....in fact, the family started their admissions process with me very late....four years ago exactly today. They already had a college list and so I was not a big part of creating that with them though approved it and tweaked it slightly (I recall taking Penn off of it). I only helped with the application process given their late start (no apps were done at that point). This girl ALSO lived in the DC suburbs like you but on the VA side, not the MD side. She was in a full IB program taking the most demanding curriculum available. She also had a good GPA. Her SATs were similar to what it sounds like your D's may be. I have very little to go on with your D but let's say she has a similar profile. Then, I got to remembering this girl's list and a lot of schools on it either you have mentioned or I have mentioned in my posts. I thought I would share her list and outcome given she was from your area and may have had similar SATs (which is only ONE factor in college admissions!!!). I don't know if it helps to see her outcome or not. It was four years ago and I think things are even more competitive now. For what it is worth:</p>
<p>UVA: rejected
UNC-Chapel Hill: rejected</p>
<p>Wake Forest - wait listed
William and Mary - wait listed
Villanova - wait listed
Dickinson - wait listed
Bucknell - wait listed....got off wait list, enrolled</p>
<p>Lehigh - accepted (put in intent to enroll until got off Bucknell wait list)
VA Tech - accepted
Penn State - accepted
James Madison - accepted</p>
<p>As you can see, she got rejected at her reach schools, waitlisted at all of her match schools but accepted at one match school (Lehigh....though eventually got into another match, Bucknell after being wait listed initially). Accepted at her three safety schools.</p>
<p>cindy, well, you've received enough good advice to get you into several colleges. Too bad you're not the one who's applying. :)</p>
<p>I don't know of any way to make a recalcitrant teen more realistic, but I can give you a few random suggestions.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If any of your daughter's top three offer EDII, consider going for it, especially if her EA choice doesn't come through.</p></li>
<li><p>VISIT all the safeties on the shortlist, even if it means cutting school. Actually being on campus, walking around, talking to kids, hearing the info session sales pitch really helps in visualizing what it would be like to be a student. That these are smart, active, social kids like her is easier to believe in the flesh than on paper.
An added bonus is that the demonstrated interest helps in admission.</p></li>
<li><p>Promote the trade-off philosophy when making the pro/con, must have/can do without list. This will be true in any of life's decisions -- jobs, homes, husbands -- you get what you need, but not always everything you want.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>momrath-
Did the OP's dau apply EA to one of the schools?? I can't seem to find that. If Brown is her dream school and definitely her tippy top choice that won't change, then I agree, EA or ED is a reasonable approach. But it doesnt sound to me like she has a firm strong feeling about the schools on her list, and from the OP's description, she seems to change her mind about her choices. If so, then ED woudnt be a great plan for her--while it might increase her chances of admission, if she is flip-flopping as much as it sounds like she might be, locking her into a school might be ill-advised. I am not meaning for this to sound critical, but rather that if the OP's daughter isnt sure of her choices, ED woudnt be advised. OP, can you clarify-- does your dau have firm opinions abbout her reach schools? Is Brown her dream school? Is there another school that is a top top firm choice? Thanks for clarifying.</p>
<p>No, she isn't doing ED anywhere. She is not in love with any of these schools and views them all as having one or more major drawbacks. She did EA to Georgetown, and as I said I didn't think her app was as strong as it could have been or needed to be.</p>
<p>Interesting post about the girl with a similar profile. She applied to UNC? Man, <em>nobody</em> gets into that school OOS. My D loved it, but we figure that would be tougher for her than a pricey Ivy, especially with the economy tanking. </p>
<p>The rationale behind UMD is that big schools aren't her thing, but the price is right. She is unwilling to pay OOS tuition for a big state school elsewhere, especially when UMD is better than a lot of other state schools to which she could be admitted.</p>
<p>I think I will spend today checking out U of Richmond and Tulane. . . . . Her counselor mentioned both of these.</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying, Cindy. I am still a bit confused though-- is your daughter willing or not willing to consider schools in the south? (please see my post # 106). Non-starter?? Does that mean she wont consider it? Yet she likes College of Charleston (cute school, btw) and possibly UNC? If she is open to schools in the south, there are lots of options, and Tulane is a good thought for sure.</p>
<p>*** and to confuse matters further, are schools a little more midwest an option? Has she considered Kenyon or Lake Forest? They are on the small side but meet a lot of her other requirements (remember-- help her stay focused on the positive, not the negative)</p>
<p>I'd say her issue with the South is more the rural south. She didn't do well with Elon and Davidson.</p>
<p>Emory didn't have a rural South issue, but it lacked the quaintness that she is used to in our area. It felt lifeless to her.</p>
<p>I think that the feel of the area is a huge thing for her. If she can't see herself going out to dinner with friends, she will view the school more negatively. That explains why she liked UNC, even though it is in the South. On the opposite end, the surrounding area for Lehigh was an insurmountable negative.</p>
<p>Then she may like New Orleans, but I would not call Tulane's campus "quaint". There are some pretty and some not-very-pretty buildings. But a beautiful campus in Atlanta is Oglethorpe, if she likes pretty campuses. Also might consider Berry College, but the town (Rome GA) will perhaps be not to her liking. Again-- stay focused on the positive aspects of the school. I am continually struck by the comments about what she doesnt like-- better to unhook for the "Glass is half empty" negative perspective. JMO</p>
<p>If she'll go as far as Tulane, why not Rice? Not that Rice would be a safety by any stretch, just asking. It's the right size, strong academics, in a big city but is a beautiful campus without a gritty feel.</p>
<p>Yeah, just trying to determine what is REALLY a deal-breaker. If she really is willing to go farther south, that opens up a lot of options for matches/safeties.</p>
<p>Cindy - if your D thinks that Chicago is cool (which, of course, it is), then both DePaul and Loyola-Chicago would be excellent safeties for her. My D is currently a freshman at DePaul (which was definitely a safety for her) and loves it. I know you mentioned that Catholic schools were out, but believe me, DePaul really desn't have much of a Catholic vibe - more of a funky live-and-let-live vibe. (My D is taking her required religion class next quarter in Jewish studies, and we're Presbyterian.)</p>
<p>If location is key, then Lincoln Park is a real bonus.</p>
<p>I think she would be willing to tolerate the South for the chance to attend a dream school. It's the combination of school-that-is-not-thrilling coupled with location-she-doesn't-like that is slow death. </p>
<p>You know, I think that in theory it is nice to take a glass-half-full point of view and focus on the positive. In practice, it gets hard. After all, if University of Richmond were as cool as Duke, then it would be Duke, you know? I don't think that denying reality (reality = we all know that the safety schools we are talking about are not as good) is going to enhance my credibility a whole lot. I mean, be honest. If your kid were admitted to their reaches (whatever those were for your kid) and their matches and their safeties, who among us would push the safeties?</p>
<p>That said, I'm liking what I see at Univ of Richmond . . . . I think getting some merit money might also make her feel the love a bit more.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Interesting post about the girl with a similar profile. She applied to UNC? Man, <em>nobody</em> gets into that school OOS. My D loved it, but we figure that would be tougher for her than a pricey Ivy, especially with the economy tanking.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would say that Brown, Northwestern, Georgetown, and W&M (out-of-state) are all more difficult to get into than Chapel Hill (out-of-state).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The rationale behind UMD is that big schools aren't her thing, but the price is right. She is unwilling to pay OOS tuition for a big state school elsewhere, especially when UMD is better than a lot of other state schools to which she could be admitted.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To be honest, her list strikes me as the list of a student who has already decided to go to UMD-College Park and everything else is just kind of a game that is expected to be played. That's perfecty reasonable (and very, very common here on College Confidential) as long as everyone is sure UMD is a lock.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'd say her issue with the South is more the rural south. She didn't do well with Elon and Davidson.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow. Davidson is hardly "rural" south. It's a quaint high-end college town about 20 minutes from downtown Charlotte. It is surrounded by major shopping malls and some of the nicest housing in the state over on Lake Norman. It's also an unrealistic reach.</p>
<p>I can't tell for sure, but if your daughter's class rank is good, she might be a viable candidate for one of the top women's colleges, perhaps like a Bryn Mawr.</p>
<p>InterestedDad, interesting take on Davidson. It looked mighty rural to me. I wasn't seeing a whole lot of quaint anything. Maybe we drove in the back way or something!</p>
<p>About UNC, what can I say? Students from our high school simply don't get into UNC, but some do get into the Ivies. I understand the problem with UNC is that such a huge percentage of slots have to go to state residents that there is little left for everyone else. Add in the low tuition cost and you have a dogpile on your hands. Of course, if that is the conventional wisdom at our high school, then perhaps there is some self-selection going on.</p>
<p>Oh, and Univ of Richmond and Depaul are looking good to me. So we are making progress. I'll run them by her tonight.</p>
<p>"If your kid were admitted to their reaches (whatever those were for your kid) and their matches and their safeties, who among us would push the safeties?"</p>
<p>Sure, IF your kid is admitted to her reaches. But your dd hasn't been, hence the need to find a safety.</p>
<p>A couple of pages back someone mentioned trying some midwestern schools - working the geographic diversity angle. I think if she would apply to a couple of midwest or western places, she wouldn't have to come down much on the average SAT score. A student from out of the region can get a better result. Have her put in one application, as a favor to you.</p>
<p>Keeping in mind that she wanted to not be rural, how about Macalester in St Paul (Minneapolis' cuter twin) or Lewis & Clark? Except for drop off and pick up, the flights home would be shorter than some of the drives involved with the southern colleges. Pitzer is supposedly really pushing to have more out of state students but maybe it doesn't have enough name recognition for her.</p>
<p>This is a frustrating time. I learned with my daughter that if I mentioned a school to her, I never heard, "Mom, what a great idea!" But, if I left it alone, she would within a couple of days look up the school in those big books and check out the website. A couple of the "safer" schools came about that way. I just had to plant the seed. Possibly you daughter is resistant about the need for safeties, not because she can't like them, but perhaps for the tacit acknowledgement that rejection may happens. No one likes rejection.</p>
<p>It is true what parents here say. The students really do change a lot between now and the April acceptances. My daughter turned down what had been her December favorites. Two of her top three April favorites had been second string previously. We never would have predicted the college where she enrolled. </p>
<p>Here's hoping that in May, you'll have a good laugh at all this angst.</p>
<p>I agree with post #154 above with respect to Davidson College (although there are other issues re: Davidson in this case that might make it an uncomfortable choice).</p>
<p>Re: Post 108: I understand your daughter's list. In my very experienced opinion, your daughter has her head on straight.</p>
<p>Who knows what kids see in the schools on their list? Often there is no unifying theme. I have seen kids with Bowdoin and NYU as their top two choices. They just liked the feel of both schools, but hated Fordham LC, GW, Pitt, Colby and Bates. Sometimes you just throw up your hands. </p>
<p>Wow, Soozievt, I am surprised that the young lady you know was not accepted to Dickinson. I guess you just never know. I would have thought Lehigh would be a harder admit. </p>
<p>OP, Lehigh is a good choice as well as URichmond. I know some great kids at both schools. I highly recommend JMU and Virginia Tech. Though they are OOS publics, their price tags are reasonable, and they can give her some choice if she does not get into the reaches. </p>
<p>It's most frustrating when the uniting theme for all schools is their selectivity. I have met kids and parents alike who are on that ride.</p>