<p>A kid in my high school was an accomplice in a plan to set off a homemade bomb in the principal's office (no one was in the school at the time - it was essentially high tech vandalism). The incident occurred in 8th grade, the kid went to juvenile detention for a week and wound up with probation and community service. He got into UChicago, Wesleyan and Brown.</p>
<p>what i see is a culture that tolerates "pranks" that are against the law, so kids think it is okay to participate....the OP did tell daughter no, but by leting her own house get tp'd and doing nothing, she showed it was okay, so D did it thinking it was not big deal</p>
<p>well, you do it to the wrong person and it is a big deal</p>
<p>it is amazing as a community, everyone just lets it slide, well, maybe this neighbor was just fed up, the straw and camel thing</p>
<p>most likely the D will be fine, it will not wreck her life, but maybe this will send a message to the other kids who vandalize property, that even though you have gotten away with it before, do the wrong house or have it go into the wrong neighbors house, and it could be bad news</p>
<p>Although this is coming from a 17 year old girl, I'm pretty positive that your daughter learned her lesson way before you punished her. </p>
<p>If she really believed that even for a second she might have jepordized her future, then I would be willing to bet money that this realization is far worse than any punishment you can enforce. In my experience, these little realizations are far worse than any punishment. Sometimes the punishments my parents enforce take away from the crime itself, and often leave me feeling angry with my parents rather than myself. It's juvenile but true. </p>
<p>About 2 months ago I posted about me getting caught drinking under-age. Many people suggested I tell my parents if I really want to take responsibility. I decided not to, and it was the best decision of my life. I've been completely sober ever since (before that I was drinking every weekend and smoking weed and ciggarettes). The experience has definitely helped me build a better relationship with my parents, and I know that eventually I will tell them what happened. I was so scared that I had ruined my future that night, that I have not been tempted to touch anything ever again. </p>
<p>I think that this was the best possible thing to have happened to your daughter, because if she really did learn her lesson, she will stay out of trouble for the rest of high school. I don't regret what I did either because it has changed my outlook on life and it has made me more confident that I want to go to an academically rigorous college and live in a substance-free dorm. These kind of experiences can be hard, but they usually work out for the best. </p>
<p>Good luck and try not to be TOO hard on your daughter...she is probably hurting pretty bad right now.</p>
<p>Yes, our society tends to tolerate pranks. But I didn't really see anybody saying the vandalism should have been tolerated. (I don't think OP's daughter will be pulling a stunt like that again.)<br>
The question is what is an appropriate response. The neighbor responded within the range of what is appropriate. Any one of us might or might not do the same thing, but it is neighbor's call and not our's or OP's.
We are also a society that encourages second chances. So face the consequences, learn a lesson, and move on. Don't think anyone is trying to move directly to 'move on' without consequences and lesson.</p>
<p>In my day, you only TP'ed your friend's or boyfriend's house--as a sign of affection. YOu'd never TP a stranger or someone you knew but had no deep relationship with, like a neighbor. So no one was ever charged in my day. </p>
<p>I don't understand this TPing of other people's houses. It's a pain in the neck for people to clean up. A neighbor up the street had his trees TPed. He is diabetic and has had both of his feet amputated. Where's the fun in that? Another friend TPed a house when she was a teenager. The old man who lived there cleaned it up and then later in the day died of a heart attack (most likely unrelated). It made her feel really guilty to think that someone spent his last day on earth cleaning up her mess. She never TPed again.</p>
<p>Let's stop this TPing!</p>
<p>
[quote]
what i see is a culture that tolerates "pranks" that are against the law, so kids think it is okay to participate....the OP did tell daughter no, but by leting her own house get tp'd and doing nothing, she showed it was okay, so D did it thinking it was not big deal</p>
<p>well, you do it to the wrong person and it is a big deal
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I guess this is a serious case of your mileage may vary ... to me the big thing is do the kids understand the possible negative consequences of their actions (and I don't care if they are legal or illegal on this front) ... if you do things that endanger people or cause damage to other people's property my wife and I will come down VERY hard on our kids and they certainly know that.</p>
<p>I wrote a long reply I just zapped but it all comes down to kids having judgement about their actions and the people in authority using judgement in dealing with situations that come up. TPing a strangers house is not a great idea ... using eggs or shaving cream makes it a lot worse ... but hardly is juvinile deliquent behavior.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A neighbor up the street had his trees TPed. He is diabetic and has had both of his feet amputated. Where's the fun in that? Another friend TPed a house when she was a teenager. The old man who lived there cleaned it up and then later in the day died of a heart attack (most likely unrelated).
[/quote]
Do you think the tp'rs knew whose property they were vandalizing? If they did, then they are sick, sick, sick. Did your friend know it was an old man whose house she tp'd? Perhaps she should have felt guilty!</p>
<p>please someone explain the joy that is received by throw toliet paper all over the place....</p>
<p>I mean, is there some kind of ego involved in getting your house picked to be Tp'd is some neighborhoods? And if you say no, please don't do my kids house just because they are a senior, are you somehow shunned? or you kid shunned? if so, wow....</p>
<p>I'm with citygirlsmom. I don't get the joy in doing it or in receiving it. I am sure that I would have felt the same when I was a teen. I don't see the fun in deliberately making a mess or cleaning up one.</p>
<p>Fortunately, the people where I live seem to agree with me as there's no such tradition of tping seniors' homes that I've seen, and I've had 2 seniors.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom, I very rarely agree with you politically, but one thing we have in common: I totally agree with you about this issue. Good on you for your stand!</p>
<p>Nothing against the OP, btw. I can absolutely understand her angst, but her D is definitely young enough to recover from this and to learn a tremendous lesson.</p>
<p>I don't think some of you live on the same planet I do. Kids sneak out. Kids TP houses and egg things. No, it isn't ideal behavior and it does need to be addressed. Kids need to learn the boundary between pranks and what is not acceptable and crosses into vandalism.
Being the mother of a very imperfect kid who has done some bad things, learned some lessons and come out the other side, I have to say I resent the attitude of some of the posters here. Can you say "self-righteous"?
Kids are cheating in school all the time. Kids are selling ADD medications. Kids are binge drinking. Kids are dying in alcohol-related car accidents.
You think TPing a house is a major issue for society? Get over it.</p>
<p>I don't think it is a "major" issue, but when you have a town that thinks it all cute and fuzzy and ignores the pranks, then wonder why things can get out of hand</p>
<p>Sure kids sneak out, the OPs kid did, I am not blaming her for that, she told D no, BUT when her own house was vandalized, she let it go, to not make waves, and then wonders why her kid snuck out and did to a neighbor what her own mother didn't have much of a problem with</p>
<p>Kids sell medicine, and look at TV, you need to take a pill to be "happy" or get an erection whenever you want, </p>
<p>Kids binge drink, because colleges and HS parents have let things slide</p>
<p>Kids cheat because when they are caught, it not taken seriously, and the values parents are supposed to work into those heads are ignored, and when we see athletes that cheat get glorified, well, what do we expect</p>
<p>What, if a kid puts his initials on the bus seat, its okay? but if he grafitis bigger its not?</p>
<p>The point is, we can't say, no, child, don't do that because it is wrong, but when people do it to our own homes, we blow it off</p>
<p>I am not blaming parents for kids misbehaving and breaking the law, which this is, btw, BUT if parents tolerate it in others and then expect their kids to do the right thing, well, what influence to we have then</p>
<p>My Ds asked me what I would do if someone, for instance, was drunk at our house, would I contact parents? and I said of course I would</p>
<p>What I find interesting is that parents will say, no littering, because that is wrong, but say, go ahead, trash a house and get litter all over a neighborhood because it is fun</p>
<p>"self-righteous" not at all, but seeing how what we do effects what our kids find acceptable in some cases, and if we are not consistent as best we can be, when our kids do mess up and break rules and not do the right thing, if we haven't done our best all along to follow through, they just don't believe us</p>
<p>kids are smart, they can tell if a parent means it, and then they try and skirt around the rules, etc</p>
<p>for instance, if you have medication in the house, and you have ANY inclination that it is being sold - stolen from an adult, or the kid himself, then you step up- you count those pills, you put your own away, you monitor</p>
<p>kids binge drink- where are they getting the booze from? older siblings? stealing from parents? shoplifting? </p>
<p>we have kids over all the time, our alcohol is locked up- I know my girls don't drink, yet, but peer pressure is mighty, and sometimes these are new friends, so why have it available?</p>
<p>momofwildchild, I am sorry of it sounds like I am judging the parents, but in a way I am...when parents and whole communities let pranks go, and then wonder why kids cross lines...especially when "prank" are against the law</p>
<p>In addition to everything else, I would have ripped my daughter's heart out for removing her brother from the home at that hour of the night with no one knowing where they were. The nightmarish possibilities of that are endless. She should face the consequences for what she did, and the neighbor probably heard that the family members had been running their mouths all over the neighborhood and lost patience. Your daughter better toe the line from here on out because colleges may excuse one transgression, but if she pulls another stunt or presents as a brat, her college hopes may fade.</p>
<p>"what i see is a culture that tolerates "pranks" that are against the law, so kids think it is okay to participate....the OP did tell daughter no, but by leting her own house get tp'd and doing nothing, she showed it was okay, so D did it thinking it was not big deal</p>
<p>CGM, I've been nodding in agreement with everything you posted in this thread.</p>
<p>don't think some of you live on the same planet I do. Kids sneak out. </p>
<p>I live on Planet New York City and I can tell you that my two teenagers do not sneak out. THey do plenty of other imperfect things, but not that. Sneaking out is non-negotiable and unforgivable to me. I can't articulate to you enough that I'm not a "not my kid" type of person, but like wearing seatbelts, some things just don't happen. Sneaking out is one of those things.</p>
<p>"don't think some of you live on the same planet I do. Kids sneak out. "</p>
<p>Sure, kids do those kind of things. Heck, lots of adults and kids do things that are wrong, but that doesn't mean those things are acceptable or should be shrugged off as teen hijinks.</p>
<p>I don't think that TPing and egging are acceptable pranks. I consider that to be vandalism, not a prank. I didn't do such things as a teen and didn't have friends that do such things. I would not condone or expect my kids to do such things. Such things aren't routine or acceptable in the community where I live. If my kids do such things, I would regard it as a serious offense and would act accordingly.</p>
<p>I also would not give permission for my house to be TPed. Not fun. Not cute. Just a mess for my neighbors and my family to clean up. </p>
<p>Certainly there are worse things to do than Tping or egging, but just because murder, rape, etc. are worse things doesn't mean that I think it's OK for kids to vandalize property.</p>
<p>I also would find sneaking out unacceptable. Older S did that once when he was a teen-- sneaked out on a Sat. morning to go to the mall hours before we were scheduled to leave on a trip. I made it as clear as possible to him that his behavior was not acceptable.</p>
<p>My son's school (Wake) has an odd tradition. They TP their own quad after big football and basketball wins. This is condoned by the college and even featured in their "visitation" slide show. Guess they just budget the clean up.</p>
<p>zoosermom- get back to us when you catch your kids sneaking out. I don't condone sneaking out. I don't condone vandalism. S and some friends TPed a house (and overdid it) in middle school. The parents/owners caught them and we all made them do an extensive clean up. I get nervous about underaged drinking. However, nothing I say is going to prevent my son from drinking and partying. He and all of his friends have fake IDs. I could sit here like some and wring my hands about how this is all the fault of our lax parental society, but that isn't going to change the fact that many, if not most, of the freshmen at Penn have fake IDs. I feel a little fortunate since my son is an older freshman and manages himself pretty responsibly.<br>
Some kids are very compliant and don't push boundaries. Some are the opposite. I have one of each. Both of my kids tell me that many of the kids who are going wild in college and partying and drinking to excess were perfect angels in high school. Time will tell.</p>
<p>Yes, I was one of those "My son would never...(whatever, sneak out, cut class, try drugs) until son #3 became a teenager. Same family, same parents, same morals..different kid.</p>
<p>"zoosermom- get back to us when you catch your kids sneaking out. "</p>
<p>Not going to happen. How dare you make that presumption? Really. Do you think all kids are wild because yours is? They aren't. Mine have plenty of issues, but not that one. There are family specific reasons why that would never happen, but I'm glad you know your kids better than I do.</p>