<p>Yeah. It’s all on social media these days, SOG.</p>
<p>I think it is very good for the instate students that Bama is acclimating so well to its OOS students, a lot of whom are from the north. It’s good for the OOS students, too. Civility and manners are something a lot of northerners could use, these days. </p>
<p>Win-win</p>
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<p>Well, yeah. You can always. But don’t you guys really care that you’re not giving the same shot to (say) the international girl who doesn’t know a thing about the Greek system til she steps foot on campus?</p>
<p>What do you suggest Pizzagirl, how would you hold recruitment for over 1,000 girls during classes without it interfering with academics? It’s not held before school to keep people out, I promise. It’s held before school because once classes start it’s a logistical nightmare and would take away from academics which we can all agree are why kids are in college to begin with. </p>
<p>Can we get honest for a second? You keep touting international students as if hundreds of them are marginalized and kept out of the Greek system by having recruitment before school starts. That’s simply not true. I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because I just don’t believe a flourishing system that works fantastically well should be overhauled for a handful of international students that may or may not choose to go through recruitment. Especially when there are plenty of things in place (information sent out well in advance of recruitment, preview weekends, online information booklets that break recruitment down step by step, COB, the ability to rush as an upperclassmen) to give ANY student who does not go through as a freshmen the opportunity to do so later in their college life. </p>
<p>If there was also movement of international students banging on the doors expressing interest and not having their needs met then absolutely something is broken in the system that needs needs to address that problem. But as it stands you are clinging to and arguing to the death about a problem that doesn’t exist.</p>
<p>A very good friend of mine has a D who went to a SEC school (not Bama), went through recruitment successfully. She is from the Midwest and the school has a number of OOS students. I do not know how Bama chapters are but at many schools there are chapters for different kinds of girls. At this SEC school there were chapters where many of the girls were not from the south and some chapters where most of the girls were southern. In a large Greek system there will be something for most everyone if you are open. </p>
<p>I also have another very good friend who’s D went to Indiana and pledged from what I heard a very popular sorority there. This D is a very pretty girl and very outgoing and I know she had recs from all of the houses there so I believe it was one of perceived more popular sororities. She hated living in the house though and deactivated. I don’t know what to think about Indiana’s system. They think living in the house is very important and I know they need to fill beds but you think they would rethink since it only seems to work for those girls who get a bid and like living in the house. </p>
<p>From what I’ve heard about the fraternities it’s just as bad. With some fraternities doing rush even before school starts and then freshman never even move into the dorms. Right into the house, which seems to me that then it’s all your buddies from high school and you don’t even get to know new people. And makes it hard for men from out of state. </p>
<p>But my D never went through rush at her northeastern school and I heard things from her that I won’t repeat here because I have no idea if they are true or not.</p>
<p>As an Indiana Alum, I can tell you that I hate bed rush! I want Greek life to be more inclusive-not as exclusive. Time and time again, Indiana has asked current and former Grekk members about changing from bed rush and they have always vetoed teh idea. Now there are a couple unhoused sororities that can take larger pledge classes. They are proof that amazing women slip through the cracks. Unfortunately those houses are considered Weak" despite their numbers. I would love to see my chapter abandon bed rush in favor of large groups of amazing women.
I have also worked with chapters in California and other parts of Indiana. I can tell you that we always used the recs to gain some information. Things like character can come out in the writing. I am always terribly honest as to my relationship with the PNM. I also have a rule for my recs. I want to meet with the young lady, even if it is only for coffee. I expect a copy of her resume/CV and I will help her beef that up if it is early in the process. I also help first-generation students get ready. Plenty of teachers in my school district know that I help. I was a first-generation scholarship student myself, so I pass it on. I will also refuse to do a rec if I don’t want that young lady to be my sister.</p>
<p>Consolation- I understand what you mean, but I’m not sure I understand what the big concern about international students at places like 'Bama. In looking at college data information, they seem to have some of the lowest percentages of URMs and international students of any public university I’ve ever looked up there. It isn’t surprising to me that the greek system would reflect those same ratios.</p>
<p>In this day and Internet age, I cannot imagine that an incoming Indiana or Bama student from anywhere wouldn’t know about the Greek cultures on those campuses. </p>
<p>I have heard that Southerners put a higher value on dress conformity and manners than we do here in the West. I don’t have a problem with that; in fact I think we could use a little more of it sometimes.</p>
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To me, the Indiana bed rush system seems terribly stiffling. My school required all freshmen and sophomores to live either at home or in the dorms, with a limited number of housing exemptions for Greek members, so “living in” was more of an informed choice. I was a commuter and was delighted to move into my sorority house as a second-semester sophomore. I was also delighted to have my off-campus job and my “townie” friends to visit when I needed a break from the drama that we all know is part and parcel of sorority life. Just about all of my sisters had an “outside” group of friends from their major or hometown or whatever. It kept things from getting stale.</p>
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<p>OK, I’ll bite. Spending about 1 minute thinking about this. I don’t think it’s even close that both these options would be, obviously IMO, far superior and fairer to all the incoming first years … 1) the week before the start of the second semester of their frosh year … 2) the week before the start of their sophomore year. The sororities could run the exact same process while the prospective members would both be grounded at UA and be able to make a more informed decision comparing Greek and GDI life and 2) those prospects not in-the-know would have infinitely more time to understand Greek life at UA and rush process before starting rush.</p>
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Classic defense of the status quo. In a similar discussion about the lack of economic diversity at highly selective schools the defense was raised that there were not enough viable candidates and the schools can not accept them if they do not apply. Mini, a CC hall-of-fame poster in my book, raised the example of Smith College that increasing the economic diversity a strategic imperative … and you know what happened … within about 5 years Smith stood out WAY AHEAD of it’s peers for it’s inclusion of a wider range of economic backgrounds. </p>
<p>It can be done if those in power want it to be done. Clearly the Greeks and the University are fine with things the way they are … because they could be changed if they wanted them changed.</p>
<p>The reason rush is held before 1st semester starts is because Greek life is so popular, why deny the 1,000 plus girls who manage to get it all together to go through recruitment have to wait a semester or a whole year to be Greek. I could see MAYBE moving it to before 2nd semester, but that comes with it’s own host of problems.</p>
<p>PNMS can sabotage their chances by ruining their reputations through partying, unknowingly insulting sisters and other actions that they might not even realize are detrimental. All of this is known to occur at schools with deferred rush. It’s a giant flaw in that system. </p>
<p>It also gives PNMS a whole semester to form opinions on each house which makes them far less likely to be open minded about all houses when going through recruitment. When this happens more girls are likely to drop out when they get cut from the few houses they have their hearts set on instead of trusting the recruitment process and seeing it through to the end, giving all houses a chance. This ends with LESS women being Greek, the exact opposite of what we’re trying to achieve in this situation.</p>
<p>As for making girls wait until Sophomore year, that’s just illogical. No one advocates that athletes wait a year to get acclimated to college before committing to a sport. No one says wait a year before joining clubs on campus such as habitat for humanity, student government, religious ministries or anything else. Why should Greek life be different? Why does one need to wait a year to be Greek in college, but not to do anything else? Who wants to miss out on a year of an activity you love when you only get 4 years at college as it is to begin with.</p>
<p>Dartmouth makes girls wait until sophomore year to rush for the first time. I’d be interested in hearing how well that works from someone familiar with their system.</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more with Aubs1126 regarding deferred recruitment. Indiana IS a deferred system and going through recruitment there is like living in a fishbowl that first semester. I know many wonderful girls that have no chance at a house due to one night of overindulgence.
Plenty of girls drop out throughout the process as soon as they are not invited back to “the houses” and reputations in houses rarely match the reality. In truth, I could pick a girl’s house just by looking at her in the day at IU but that wasn’t possible when I would visit the large houses at Purdue or U of I. You don’t see as many girls voluntarily dropping out at large SEC schools because there is so much parity among the houses. </p>
<p>I have no idea how to fix IU. I would prefer large pledge classes and more parity but it would take a long time to happen. If a young lady really wants to be Greek and doesn’t have a strong preference on the school, I recommend Purdue, DePauw, Butler, Hanover or Franklin as Indiana schools.</p>
<p>I would be interested in knowing Dartmouth’s fees for joining a house. With only three years of members and a house to maintain, I imagine the cost is a deterrent.</p>
<p>What Aubs1126 is saying could be looked at another way: if first year students actually got a better look at the Greek houses and got to know them better, they would be more discriinating and many would decide not to pledge.</p>
<p>I don’t know what the fees are like at D. FA covers it, and that was S’s responsibility.</p>
<p>“There were numerous posts telling folks how to chase down recs from total strangers … and then these recs written by strangers are invaluable?”</p>
<p>This.</p>
<p>I happily write recs for friends of friends based entirely on a brief resume or conversation. Has anyone ever written an unflattering one? The whole rec process is a relic from the past that only adds stress to the PNM who is not connected to a lot of houses, while not revealing anything substantive about the young woman herself. The houses would gain more personal information from a questionnaire or essay if getting to know the women ahead were really the goal.</p>
<p>Emory’s deferred recruitment seemed to work well as it allowed students to get to know sisters in the sorority while also assimilating with the broader campus life. Given that around 35% of the campus goes greek, and most chapters are far more racially diverse than those at other schools (to be fair, Emory is an extremely racially diverse institution) deferred rush seems to work out well. </p>
<p>In comparing the interactions I’ve seen between freshmen interested in greek life at OU versus those at Emory, it seems that the freshmen at Emory were far more inclusive than those at my new institution. From an outsider’s perspective having a group of students arrive a week before everyone else just so they can go through rush before they’ve even registered for classes or seen any of the other hundreds of organizations they can join seems insane.</p>
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<p>Exactly. Of COURSE I’m going to write that the friend-of-a-friend’s daughter, about whom I know nothing other that she’s going to College X in the fall and I’m the only acquaintance of her mother’s who is a (insert my sorority), is a lovely person, outgoing, enthusiastic, would be a great addition to the chapter, blah blah blah. What else am I going to write? I’ll play the game because I’m happy to help people out, but how is it meaningful or useful? They’re going to figure out that she’s from Seattle and plays the trumpet within 5 minutes of meeting her anyway, and they’ll judge for themselves what her personality is like, no matter what I write. </p>
<p>Unless I’m supposed to believe that they meet her, don’t hit it off, but think … oh, my, some alum who belonged to an entirely different chapter 25 years ago and 1000 miles away wrote a glowing recommendation, so we MUST keep her?</p>
<p>I have written an unflattering letter once. It was an unusual circumstance and I was much younger. Now I will simply state that I will not write one. One rec that I wrote did seem to help. I have known the young woman for many years and I was able to get them to see beyond the resume. Where in a resume can you write about how she cared for a dying mother and helped raise her toddler brother? Where on a transcript can you see that she had to take the SAT twice because she was pulled out when her mother passed away and forgot to cancel her result? In the past those letters were meant to show ones character from those that knew her. My recs for the people I know well are invaluable. They ones that I barely know are simply an introduction- a calling card.</p>
<p>I really think this boils down to the fact that Greek life is different at schools all across the country, what works in one place might not work in others. For some recs are foreign, old fashioned and pointless, for others they are helpful, informative and useful. I’d like to think we’re all grown women who can respect these differences for what they are and recognize that they don’t make any one system better or worse, just different.</p>
<p>At the bare minimum it would be nice if people who know nothing about certain schools Greek cultures and how recs are used and the helpful role they play would stop talking out their backside like they know everything there is to know in the world of Greek life across the board. No one person is an expert on this is, it’s too large of a system nationally.</p>
<p>Much like colleges I think we can agree it’s always best to get advice on Harvard from someone actually affiliated with Harvard instead of random Tim who’s never even been to Boston let alone attended the school. The same goes for getting accurate information about Greek life.</p>
<p>That was the point I was trying to make earlier. The greek system on any given campus is going to reflect the culture of the region and the students who attend that college. A commuter campus in Detroit is going to have a very different greek system than Alabama. A chapter in Hawaii has a very different culture and make up than a chapter in Idaho. Just as there are some colleges I wouldn’t attend because they aren’t a good fit, there are schools where I probably wouldn’t have gone greek because it wouldn’t have been a good fit for me. That doesn’t mean it is wrong for the students who go to those schools or join those greek systems. I’m sure women from chapters of 300 women who wear sundresses to tail gate and go to football games would never understand the sisterhood I joined where we had 30 members on average and wore 3 layers (shirt, sweatshirt, parka) at football games.</p>
<p>If recs were not required but only offered when they added significantly from a personal friend, as MizzBee has experienced, they would indeed be valuable. Searching for required recs to check a box is really a different animal. One doesn’t need to be personally familiar with a chapter at a specific school to have this opinion. Especially when several posters here have been writing recs for 25 years to many schools to help others play the game. These chapters apparently care about our opinions – enough to mark the rec as received anyway.</p>