<p>I just don’t think why it is so difficult. If she thinks she is an adult and should be able to come and go as she pleases, she should get an apartment, a summer job and pay for it all. If she is not able to support herself over the summer and needs to come home, then there are some basic ground rules. </p>
<p>The ground rules may not be she needs to be home by 10 every night. But it may be, 1) needs to have a job, 2) help with the housework, 3) be home for dinner few nights a week (D1 was home for dinner most of nights and went out after dinner), 4) let people when she is going to be late at coming home.</p>
<p>One thing H said to D1 early on was our house was not a B&B. If it was, she would be paying few hundred $ a night. It is more like a co-op, we all need to pitch in to help out.</p>
<p>OP - you are paying for her phone, room and board out of goodness of your heart. If she doesn’t like it, she could certainly stay at school and support herself.</p>
<p>Whenever D1 is home, we respect her privacy and treat her like a young adult, but we certainly expect her to treat us with respect and courtesey also. Even though H and I are of age, we let people know when we are going to be late and we do not come home drunk. You can’t expect to be treated like an adult and still act like a child. What I will say is whatever OP decides is the ground rule and punishment, she will need able to carry it out.</p>
<p>Well, things have changed a bit. . . remember how I said my D had gotten into trouble in the past, but had never been charged with anything? Well, she got a citation from the police for underage possession of alcohol last night (actually she was riding with someone else who had alcohol and she got charged for just being there). This is why I worry so much and feel like I still need to set some kind of guidelines for her. She just isn’t mature enough to make wise decisions. It it heart-wrenching to sit by and watch your kid screw up!</p>
<p>Why do you continue to pay for your child to attend an out of state school? From your description, she puts herself in danger and is apparently not applying herself. If I am paying for a child to go to college, I have expectations of that child. If she is not meeting those expectations and/or is a danger to herself or others, she is going to a community college and is living at home until she is mature enough to handle herself. My heart goes out to you. I believe it is crucial that you and your husband present a united front, and it seems that is difficult at this point.</p>
<p>Are the others boys? Sometimes there is a difference between how girls and boys behave when they come home. I always found my son to be a bit more understanding of our “rules” than our daughter…who came around but needed a little more explanation of how her comings and goings affected the whole family.</p>
<p>This thread popped into my head. A lot of parents gave some great advice on that thread. Your situation maybe different from the other family, but it may still be a good read.</p>
<p>Good luck with your daughter. It is worrisome that she is starting to get into trouble with the law.</p>
<p>osunshine-
Maybe the OP from that thread referenced above will post here in your thread with an update as to how things are going for her and her dau. I think she still reads this forum. Hopefully things have worked out well for her and she can give you some pointers.</p>
<p>I agree. There are LOTS of similarities between your situation and the one in the referenced thread. It will be reassuring to you to see that there are others with very similar issues. VERY similar.</p>
<p>Wow, took me a while but I read most of the thread you all suggested I check out. There are certainly a lot of similarities:</p>
<ol>
<li>My daughter too has ADHD and has been on meds for about 2 years now. </li>
<li>My daughter treats me worse than anyone else in the family, but my daughter is not verbally abusive to me. She merely argues and typically does the opposite of what I ask. </li>
<li>She also drinks, stays up/out late and sleeps til afternoon.</li>
<li>She also is indifferent to how her behavior negatively affects others in the family.</li>
<li>She also acts as if she is “entitled” to stuff.</li>
<li>My husband and I differ on how to handle her behavior</li>
</ol>
<p>But, there are also some differences. My daughter can be very loving at times and other times very hateful. She refuses therapy since she says there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. Her grades are decent, not great, not horrible but certainly are nowhere near what she is capable of. She is expected to get a summer job and pay for some of her own expenses and we ALWAYS make her pay for any expenses related to her screwing up (citations, replacement of lost/damaged stuff, etc).</p>
<p>Momlove, we are making an effort to get her changed to a closer school. The process is just not going as smoothly as we had hoped. She does not have the money to pay for her education herself as she has depleted her savings paying for all her screw-ups. We are willing to continue paying for her education within reason. She is not flunking out or anything, she just isn’t applying herself. She spends too much time socializing. We plan to create a contract for next year in regards to minimum grades we expect or she will have to reimburse us for courses she does not meet minimum expectations.</p>
<p>Thumper1, my other children are a boy and a girl. They were/are both very respectful and considerate. D2 is very resentful of them and claims she isn’t “perfect” like they are.</p>
<p>My thought is that you are overthinking this. You are paying for her school and she is underperforming, getting into trouble multiple times, disregarding house rules, etc, etc. </p>
<p>It’s simple. If she wants to be treated as an adult she needs to act like one. If she cannot then the consequence is that you pull her funding. If she wants to screw up and waste her education then she needs to do it on her dime. </p>
<p>If you don’t do this then it won’t stop. She knows that there are no consequences to her actions so why should she stop? You need to spell out for her what you expect and exactly what the consequences are (cut off from money) for not complying. And then follow through without exception. If you don’t do this you are enabling the behavior.</p>
<p>I started a system with my D in high school that has worked well. When she came home for the holidays (she is completing her freshman year), we had no problems because our system does not restrict her actions, but places the responsibility for them solely on her. I have not abdicated my parental role, at all, but did tweak it from what I did with my older kids. I had a theory that lots of the conflict between parents and children over curfews could be avoided. I know it is too late to start over with the OP’s situation, but here’s what worked for us:</p>
<p>D has no curfew and has not since she started driving her own car at 16.
She absolutely vows not to drink and drive or get in the car with someone who has been drinking. I will pick her up from anywhere, anytime, no questions asked.
She lets me know where she is going, and texts me when she gets there safely. She texts me again every time she changes location, before she leaves and when she gets there.
If she is going to stay over at a friend’s, she texts me immediately when that decision is made so I can go to sleep with no worries.
I am awakened a few times sometimes at night, but can sleep well in between because I know where she is.
There are still times when she asks permission if she believes I might have a problem with what she has planned…that usually involves a phone call, not text. Sometimes, I think she wants me to say no…usually I just talk pros and cons with her and she makes the decision. </p>
<p>Oh, and I on occasion would let her have a glass of wine or wine cooler at home, with me, when she was not going to be going out or driving. She understands the concept of having a drink without getting drunk. BUT I never ever offered a drink to one of her underage friends…illegal and not my place.</p>
<p>This does not work with all kids and all parents. It takes a mature kid and a trusting parent. I have never been disappointed with her decision-making. I feel that I empowered my D to be able to make her own choices when far away from home…so she did not feel she had to go wild once she left for college. She laughs at her roommates and others who get wasted just because they can…and she has a 3.5 GPA in a demanding major. She goes to a party on occasion, and does have a drink or two, but lives in NYC so they are always on foot or the subway, so driving is not an issue. </p>
<p>Good luck to OP and others dreading the return of their college kids.</p>
<p>Wow, Ironmaiden, you are pretty harsh with the judgement. You act as if we never set consequences to her behavior. That is simply not true. When she has failed to comply with house rules, we took away her car and priviliges. We require her to work in the summers and pay for her own books at college. She also is required to pay for other expenses as well, including gas and especially any expenses related to poor decisions.</p>
<p>We want her to stay in school so we continue to pay for her tuition so long as she is staying engaged in her education, which she is. We plan to create a contract for next year regarding our expectations on grades and what she has to do for us to continue to pay for her.</p>
<p>I just have one comment about house rules. If your adult brother were to come and stay with you for a few months, what would be the rules? What sort of curfew would you impose? What would you expect from him in terms of chores, etc.? Thinking of this might give a little perspective on how to think of a kid who is back from college. They aren’t children, and they aren’t guests, either–they are adult relatives who are staying with you.</p>
<p>Hunt, my 50 year old brother is quite different than my underage 19 year old daughter but my expectations from either is that they would respect the other occupants of the house, treat them with courtesy, let others know their basic plans, help out as needed and obey the laws of the community. And my “house rules” are simply similar to what Writestuff 54 talked about. . . calling or texting me to let me know where they are, letting me know if they are making different plans, etc. I never set a curfew for my son when he was home from college because it simply wasn’t needed. He always came home at a reasonable hour and treated others in my home with respect. I do not feel that I have unreasonable expectations for my daughter that she do the same.</p>
<p>My point is that if you were negotiating house rules with your brother, it would be all about what is reasonable and considerate for everybody. If he wanted to stay out late, you might figure out how he could come in quietly, or stay somewhere else. What I am saying is that you are more likely (but hardly assured) to get better results if you approach negotiations with your daughter in the same way.</p>
<p>Hunt, You are assuming that my daughter would respond to sitting down and negotiating. You think we haven’t done that?? Of course we have! My husband and I have tried to talk to her as an adult to discuss what is reasonable and respectful and considerate. She usually refuses to sit down to talk to us and when she has, she says she thinks she should be able to do anything she wants and has little regard for how it affects the household. Unfortunately, her activities frequently involve drinking or riding with someone who has been drinking. . . even though as several people have suggested, we offer to pick her up from anywhere, anytime, she refuses.</p>
<p>Well, you really only have a couple of choices, broadly stated:
Relax your rules and try to work it out with her.
Enforce your rules with tough consequences.
There are proponents of both approaches in the posts above. You have to choose what you think will be most effective in the long term.</p>
<p>Am also wondering, since you say the older siblings were more compliant and it all went smoother, can you enlist one or several of them to talk with her? </p>
<p>You might level with them that you’re having concerns about the upcoming summer, and are asking if they’ll help YOU a bit by stepping into the middle. See if they’ll talk with their baby sister (out of your presence and with the promise they do NOT have to report back to you! and keep that promise!). </p>
<p>She can express her frustrations to them about your meanie rules, and they can advise her how a little bit of cooperation or wiser choices WRT alcohol might make it a better summer for her. Which plays into her self-interest, and indirectly benefits the household in general.</p>
<p>The sibs are in the unique position of knowing the sister and the parents; they are close to her age. They have credibility. Not every sib will do this, for a variety of legitimate reasons, but maybe it’s worth asking if they, too, think it might be helpful. YOu have 3 chances, anyway, so why not try? They might also give you some tips on how to manage your anxieties at 2 a.m., if you let them. </p>
<p>There might even be small suggestions. For example, I used to offer to pick up any child who needed it from a party if there was no designated driver. Nobody ever called. Then I added that I’d park a block away and around the corner, so the kid could walk out of the party without any car idling at the front door. That was a better approach. One of the sibs suggested the tweak. It helps to have many children sometimes; more wisdom to tap.</p>
<p>Perhaps your previous consequences of taking away the car and privileges didn’t effect her priorities (partying). She knows that you’ll continue to pay for college (a priority for her because she gets to party as much as she wants) and you will continue to allow her to live at home despite her behavior. </p>
<p>Make the consequences clear, simple, and directed to what she views as important.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>–Doors will be locked at (set the time, i.e. 1:00 weekdays, 2:00am weekends) and if she’s not home by then, find another place to sleep.</p>
<p>–One more brush with the law and you will not pay for tuition at the OOS for the upcoming year.</p>
<p>–Come home drunk and you drop her cell phone service</p>
<p>You decide the reasonable house rules and follow through with the consequences that are really going to matter to her. Don’t make a long list of rules–just focus on the specific behaviors that you want her to change and that cause chaos in your household.</p>
<p>If she won’t sit down and discuss the expectations and rules, write it all out in contract form and hand it to her.</p>
<p>JHS -“you will be the not-powerful-at-all, and whether you have a good relationship with your daughter will depend on her willingness to maintain it, because she will not really need you as much as you need her. So start working on the long-term plan, and make her feel like she has your respect and consideration”</p>
<p>That is it in a nut shell. Be careful with yourself, and get in a new mindset, lead the way to the “new” adult relationship w/D. It was a difficult adjustment for me too, but I’m glad I did it. I have a lot of friends who moved far away from parents in early adult years, just to get away, but no matter how things settled as the years went by, they have a very limited relationship w/parents, and so do their children. </p>
<p>Your “high school D.” is still in there somewhere, just wait it out. Many, many mother’s have a wild child past, but ya would never know it!</p>
<p>OP, I don’t think I was harsh at all. What you are calling “consequences” have obviously not worked. Her recent alcohol bust is proof of that. You took away her car but gave it back and did not take it away for good when the behavior happened again. So she knows that she can do whatever she wants with no long term consequences. </p>
<p>You say you don’t want to pull her school. Why? A C average is not good - a 2.0 won’t even get you an interview in this job market. She is spending her time on her social life, drinking underage, disrespecting you, and doing who knows what else. If I was paying the bill I would only do if it school was job 1. Clearly it is not. </p>
<p>Sorry if it seems harsh but you are enabling her. To keep doing the same things and expecting different results is not going to work. If the behavior does not stop pull her out of school until she is mature enough to attend.</p>