<p>Two of my friends donated significant seven figure sums to get their rather lackluster kids into college this year. The kids are by no means stupid, but they certainly do not possess the stellar credentials normally required by these top colleges. I am having difficultly dealing with these friends. The bragging has started and I just feel sorry for the kids who know they did not really earn their spots. I also do not respect parents who buy their kids into top colleges to earn bragging rights. My friendships are on the line here...two long-term friendships. Anyone want to help me process this so I can at least attempt to continue the friendships?</p>
<p>Yes. </p>
<p>Because they gave money to a college, it will be used to educate many kids, not just their own. While they get an extraordinary benefit of improving their kid's admission chances through the roof, s/he doesn't personally cost seven figures to educate. So some others will benefit, too.</p>
<p>Once their kid gets there, s/he will have to do the work and if not capable, could flunk out. </p>
<p>There are no guarantees of admission.</p>
<p>How your friends spend their money is their choice. Do you want them judging you by how you spend your time or money?</p>
<p>If they brag and it irritates you, find ways to change the subject if you can.
Since your stated goal is "to preserve the friendship" then you can be working on that piece, and cool your own jealousy. That's what it is.</p>
<p>Don't feel sorry for the kids. I can't put it into words why not, I want to be thinking about happier things today. Just, it seems like a complete waste of emotion. Redirect it into feeling glad for the kids that they are so blessed. </p>
<p>Here's a tough one to hear, but: If these people are in your circle of friends, you probably have so much more money than I do, that I find it tremendously unfair. Now, how did that sentence make you feel? That's what you're doing when you oppress your friendship. Friends are people who like each other, not necessarily people who agree with each others' personal allocation of resources. </p>
<p>The bragging is the only irritating piece you can work with, because that's the friendship dynamic between you. What she's bragging about, she bought so has a right to discuss. </p>
<p>I'd try to stop the brag-sessions (which I'd also find irritating) by smiling as the topic turns that way, "I think we've talked plenty about colleges for one day; what else is
new?" She'll hopefully get the message to brag elsewhere, outside your company...if SHE wants to keep a friend!</p>
<p>Well, you shouldn't feel sad for the kids because...nothing bad happened to them! In fact, a great thing happened to them ;). paying3tuitions is very wise. </p>
<p>I can understand your frustration about the bragging, though! But, the type to brag is usually kinda the fringy-rich people, who have just enough money to pimp it, but not quite enough to just lay back and bask on their private island and not worry what the heck the peons think. Tell them they can't brag until they put a bumper sticker on the Maserati. Hah.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I think we've talked plenty about colleges for one day; what else is
new?"
[/quote]
What a great, all-purpose line! I'll remember that one.</p>
<p>Symphony, I agree with Paying3tuitions. I also had to chuckle about how different my circle of friends is from yours. After tuition payments, my friends are more likely to brag that they made it through another year without having their electricity turned off.</p>
<p>I, OTOH, sympathize with you. You see the injustice of kids who had better recs being rejected, and these kids being accepted. Not fair at all! You have the right to feel upset. What they did was playing the game as the colleges have set it up. They won. Unfortunate, but they did. There is nothing you can do about it. As for the bragging, you have to decide whether or not these people are worth staying friends for the next 4 years as they keep on talking about their wonderful kid at wondeful school. It won't end. Changing the subject may work, if they go along with it. If not, then you have to decide if you can even look themin the eye. If you can't then, just be very busy for awhile and they will eventually get the message. If you want to stay friends, then i am afraid that you will have to put up with it. If youchoose to do this, you have to let it go, and fogive them.</p>
<p>hi,
Im not a parent but I felt the need to say this..</p>
<p>Theres a part where I dont agree with paying3tuitions. I wouldn't try to stop the bragging sessions. You can't make others change their behavior. You can only change your own behavior and attitude. You dont need to feel inferior or uncomfortable if your friends brag about their children. They deserve to brag about their children, even if they did pay their way into college. The fact is that they are attending X college and thats that. Parents only want the best for their children, right? I mean hey, if I was a parent and I had lots of money, I would definitely donate tons of money to get my child into the best institution possible. Like you said.. they are your friends... shouldn't friends accept friends as who they are? The bad and the good? Dont let your friendship be hurt by something as silly as this... :) Besides, its not like you've never bragged about your children to your friends. All parents do this. Its just part of being a parent.. Let your friends brag! :)</p>
<p>Well, at least they admitted it, that's honest. If I had the $ and decided to do that, I'd be tempted to keep quiet about it and let folks think my kid had some secret genius. Also -- the kids might feel a little odd about what their parents did. They might not feel qualified, which could affect their confidence; they might resent their parents; the schools might turn out not to be good fits. Your friends might have created, not solved problems.</p>
<p>I think I'd cool the friendship just a bit until your feelings settle down. Take a look at the entire friendship, decide what is positive and what is negative, and then go from there.</p>
<p>I have to agree with SuNa...I think I'd keep VERY quiet about how my 7 figure donation got Jr into XYZ College. To Jr I'd say--"I got you through the door. Now it's up to you to make the most of your opportunity."</p>
<p>This is America! If your millions of dollars can't get you into the right neighborhood, the right country club, and the right university, then what good is all that money anyway? </p>
<p>I don't begrudge any of my friends (or acquaintances) using any of their cards to get their kids into colleges. I do know people that supposedly are genuine development cases (as in, his grandfather has a building named after him) friends who have a boss who is a huge donor, and they used that relationship, friends who are fully assimilated into upper middle class American life and culture but have a Hispanic surname - and played that card, several recruited athletes, legacies etc. I even know of a couple of kids that are so outstanding they actually got into top schools with no obvious "hooks" other than being academically and musically incredible and volunteering umpteen hours per week. Use whatever you got, and if that's Daddy's money, use that too!</p>
<p>Why is this a problem? Colleges have always welcomed large donors, and even name buildings after them, and it is isn't for the "fringy-rich". And some day the kids will be large donors to the school, and fund the education of lots of poorer ones.</p>
<p>I kinda meant the constant bragging about it. Not necessarily the donation itself. But then again having a building named after you is like decades worth of bragging, isn't it?</p>
<p>The Singaporeans have a great cartoon character called Mr Kiasu. Kiasu is the Chinese word for 'fear of losing'--and the Singaporeans do a great job of understanding the underbelly of social competitiveness. One of Mr Kiasu's books is called "Everything Must also Have'.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Kiasu (Traditional Chinese: 驚輸) is a Hokkien (a Chinese spoken variant) word that literally means 'fear of losing' (Mandarin Chinese: 怕输). Examples of kiasu behaviour includes accumulating too much food on one's plate during a buffet lunch in case there is no more later, or joining a queue many days in advance just to ensure that one successfully gets hold of the limited free tickets to events, promotions and shows.</p>
<p>This word is so widely used by Singaporeans and Malaysians that it is incorporated into their English vocabulary (in the form of Singlish). It is often used in describing the social attitudes of people, especially about South East Asian society and its values. Its widespread use is often due to the fact that these attitudes are common—to not lose out in a highly competitive society (e.g. by above-cited examples), or to the extent of parents imposing heavy study labour on their children in their wish to make them at the very top of all other students. Growing up with this attitude, these students often become ambitious businesspeople, with the desire to be on top in wealth and prestige regardless of whether the most prestigious careers are aligned with their true capabilities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your friend 'buying' a place with a seven figure donation is an indication of fear--and kiasu. We had a friend who did the same--but not to his alma mater. He picked the school he wanted his children to attend--when they were 5 years old--and started donating seven figures from that day forward.
Silly money.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Mr Kiasu was named for his inability to accept being on the losing end of any proposition. Essentially he is the personification of the Singlish concept Kiasu, meaning "extreme fear of losing" in the Hokkien dialect. Thus, this comic character was created to exemplify how certain Singaporeans act in an attempt to ensure they do not lose out in any aspect.
[/quote]
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Kiasu%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Kiasu</a></p>
<p>Kiasu is not a good look--for the donor or subsequent generations.</p>
<p>These seem like odd friendships to me. This behavior, which you find offensive, is out of character for them? You have respected their choices until now? You are close friends and yet you can't see it from their point of view? Maybe the friendships are not that valuable.</p>
<p>I also can't help feeling a little sorry for these "lackluster" kids who are now in top colleges where they will certainly be outclassed academically. Though the schools will probably not let them flunk out, they'd be better off in a setting where they were on a more equal footing. That said, if the families are that rich, it probably doesn't matter if they don't learn a thing in college....</p>
<p>It is a real shame that the parents don't realize their bragging is only hurting their kids - how awful it must be for them to hear mom and dad go on about how they paid their way in.</p>
<p>Wow, all of this is very cathartic and helpful! Paying3tuitions...I agree, the money will go to the underprivileged...and that is a wonderful way to look at it.
That's the way I always looked at it when it was a more remote issue.
I loved Cheers' story about Kiasu...I will carry that one with me....very wise and very true. Jmmom...I guess part of this reaction is pure shock. I've always known these friends were well-heeled, but they always kept a low profile and never flaunted their wealth (which is why we were friends in the first place). I've known one person for twenty years and the other for fourteen. When they did this with their kids' colleges, both during the same year, I was totally floored...it was very uncharacteristic of them both to mention money and to brag about their kids. It made me question whether I've even known them at all...which I guess is part of my problem. Everyone's posts definitely put more perspective on the matter. Thank you and Happy Mother's Day!</p>
<p>I agree with the others that these parents must be clueless how they're making it look for their kids. It doesn't say much for their kids' stats if the donation was needed to nudge their acceptance. </p>
<p>The bragging, even if there were no donations, can be difficult to put up with this time of year. You're probably going to have to either tolerate it for a while or spend less time with these friends and move on to others. Hopefully the bragging will die down in a bit. Most of the people that behave this way likely behave similarly (bragging) about other areas such as their house, car, job, vacation, etc. They're generally quite happy bragging about themselves but show no interest in anything anyone else has to say. It's a shame some people are like this but what can you do other than find friends more compatible? It's just their personality.</p>
<p>Hm. Are you close enough with them to ask, "I wonder how X's (S, or D) is feeling to have it discussed this way?" They might be so excited about themselves, their cleverness and power to bring about this outcome, that they've absolutely forgotten tothink about it from the kids' point of view.
If they're old friends, and you sound like a good, sensitive gal, they surely had reasons fro you to like them that didn't disappear last month. Maybe they're just clueless.
It;s so iinterestng. I think your thread struck a chord with me b/c I'm getting ready to go to a college grad and thinking, now, how can I make this all about my D and not just me and my feelings? I want her to be the focus of attention.</p>
<p>
Don't worry - they won't be "outclassed" -- the elites have a large contingent of kids like this, and they do just fine. These kids will select a major that is not too demanding, enroll in courses with profs known to give easy A's, and when they graduate their family connections will lead to whatever "employment" they want to have. I put "employment" in quotes because these kids have plenty of money behind them, which means that they will be desirable candidates for brokerage houses and various other businesses not because of their talents but because of the clientele they are likely to attract.
Well, I can't know about symphonymom's friends, but I wouldn't assume that the kids are embarrassed -- there are plenty of very rich college students who are quite happy to flaunt their wealth and brag about what they can buy, a trait that they perhaps learn from their parents.</p>
<p>In the interest of openness and transparency in College Admissions, perhaps Barron's or Fortune magazine ( or Vanity Fair ) would like to have a special issue devoted to ranking the colleges that encourage development admits and which Colleges were most "Cost Effective" to donate to.
They could let you know what you get for your dollars. (ie. The new dorm at a local college cost $14 million, but you can get you name on it for a donation of $5 million, plus junior gets to matriculate.)</p>
<p>They could have a grid or graph showing how much money it takes to overcome various deficits in GPA and SAT scores. (and at what point no amount of money would make a difference.)
How many slots were available for the development admits.
Perhaps even a study of how many of these admits actually graduate and how long it takes them to do so. :)</p>
<hr>
<p>symphonymom - What level of school were your friend's children applying to.
IVY, Top 50 University, Top 50 LAC, Second Tier? </p>
<p>Were the kids really that much of a reach, or did this reveal an insecurity on the part of the Parents and a desire by them to attempt to control an process that is mysterious and frustrating? </p>
<p>Most importantly, are the children happy with the outcome and likely to succeed at the schools they will be attending?</p>