Debate!!!

College Confidential Community
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<p>why dont u just call me el douche that seems to fit better...jk!</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It obviously affects them. I cant stress this enough. Have you seen the Michael Jackson things on tv? A psychiatrist or whoever says that those kids he's with act exactly like those molested kids. There are also very strong implications that his father molesteed him as a child.</p></li>
<li><p>DUDE do u not know how they "do it"??? They ram their stuff up the booty! Thats freakin abuse right there!!!</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>"EXACTLY THEY WANT TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEMSELVES!! now we are getting somewhere."</p>

<p>So homosexuals are people who feel sorry for themselves? Riighhhtttttttt</p>

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<p>It doesn't matter. Whether homosexuals get rights depends upon a majority vote as is done in a democracy. People get to choose social policy because the 14th Amendment does not include "sexual orientation" as a suspect classification and rightly so because gays are a "self-titled" minority. Any minority is not suddenly entitled to rights unless the people feel like giving them these rights.</p>

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<p>Actually, the 14th Amendment states that ANY citizen of the United States is entitled to equal rights. Gay Americans, being citizens, should be afforded equal legal protections.</p>

<p>"Any minority is not suddenly entitled to rights unless the people feel like giving them these rights."</p>

<p>Racial minorities weren't ACTUALLY entitled to equal rights until the white majority just happened to grant their benevolence upon us in the 60's? Riiiiiiight. Try again.</p>

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<p>So why are they citizens of America? they must be pariahs and outcasts..</p>

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<p>Elcommando is making considerable points. But he isnt seeing the "whole picture"</p>

<p>I am school right now. But I will elaborate my points when i get back home in a couple of hours.</p>

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<p>tennistennis, i see you are blasting everyone here just as in the Dartmouth thread. You are definitely making good points as well.</p>

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<p>Studies CANNOT prove something wrong. Studies can only support a different theory that is accepted over the previous theory. But does it make the old theory wrong? Not necessarily.</p>

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<p>I'm very conservative, both socially and economically, and I have supported all of Bush's policies thus far.</p>

<p>Why don't we debate the Patriot Act, since its up for renewal now. I think that the entire Act should be renewed. It gives authorities power to stop terrorism, and is very much needed. Anyone disagree?</p>

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<p>By the way, has anyone else done the politicalcompass.org quiz posted earlier in this thread. I've done in last year, but just went back and got a score of +9.13 Economic and +7.79 Social Conservative. Anyone else care to post their results???</p>

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<p>Actually, the 14th Amendment states that ANY citizen of the United States is entitled to equal rights. Gay Americans, being citizens, should be afforded equal legal protections.</p>

<p>this doesnt mean we should cater to them. its the same idea as the atheists wanting to remove "under God" from the pledge which is ridiculous. I believe there is something like 85% of Americans who believe in God and we should not be overruled by the other 15%. All our founding fathers believed in God and started this country with the same beliefs. Remember the ten commandments (in front of the Supreme COurt?). Well they had to be removed because it offended someone! The person obviously just wanted to try and put down our country's values and whatnot.</p>

<p>So homosexuals are people who feel sorry for themselves? Riighhhtttttttt</p>

<p>Why dont you guys start REALLY debating the issues instead of just dismissing my arguments without anything but a "put down" because it does nothing but show you have no evidence to back up your dismissals of my arguments.</p>

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<p>I too am at school during my open period haha.</p>

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<p>uc_benz, nice to hear from you. And I do agree that studies do not necessarily apply to every situation, they only support theories.</p>

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<p>"this doesnt mean we should cater to them."</p>

<p>Please tell me how we are catering to them? </p>

<p>"this doesnt mean we should cater to them. its the same idea as the atheists wanting to remove "under God" from the pledge which is ridiculous. "</p>

<p>The issue there is not whether someone believes in God or not, it's how stictly we should enforce the separation of church and state. If you want to say the pledge, fine, but don't make it a part of public school. If you believe in the 10 commandments, fine, but don't use their historical significance and an excuse to parade your religion around federal buildings.</p>

<p>"All our founding fathers believed in God and started this country with the same beliefs."</p>

<p>I fail to see the relevence of this. Many of our founding fathers also owned slaves, and it was actually Thomas Jefferson that popularized many of the spurious justifications for keeping blacks subservient to whites. Does that mean that we should somehow glorify slavery because the founding fathers did?</p>

<p>"Why dont you guys start REALLY debating the issues instead of just dismissing my arguments without anything but a "put down" because it does nothing but show you have no evidence to back up your dismissals of my arguments."</p>

<p>Funny, that seems to be exactly what you're doing. I've substantiated everything that I've put forth so far--where's your evidence?</p>

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<p>Alright guys and gals,
Primitive knows who I am, so I guess it is time for me to weigh in.
First off tennistennis should be banned because as primitive so wisely stated originally, let us refrain from personal attacks, and I would say that calling someone a dumb**** qualifies in that category.</p>

<p>I have read that same quote about homosexuality and although correlation does not prove causation, the results are overwhelmingly for a nature sexual orientation rather than a nurture one.</p>

<p>As to the point about the 14th Amendment, there is considerable evidence that the ratification of the 14th Amendment was conducted in an illegal and unconstitutional manner (many things contradicted the points made during the ratification of the 13th such as which states were considered still in the US). I don't feel it necessary for me to elaborate on these. A simple search on Google for "14th Amendment Unconstitutional" will provide ample results.</p>

<p>I also am against Gay marriage because marriage has and always hopefully will be a sacred institution between a man and a woman. Do I think that sodomites are sinners? Absolutely. Do I think they live their life in sin and live, generally, more promiscuous/drug involved lives? Absolutely. But I don't think that this makes them a person who should not have some rights. Hate the sin, not the sinner.</p>

<p>And as to seperation of church and state, legally the 1st Amendment merely says that "Congress shall make no law....". Note - CONGRESS. That is not to say that South Carolina can not declare itself Baptist. The Amendment merely says that Congress can not say we are a Methodist country and we must pay to support the Methodist Church. The Supreme Court has overstepped its bounds on that issue.</p>

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<p>I have a lot to cover. I am so excited!</p>

<p>I see that the topic of discussion is gay marriage. I am totally against Bush’s policies regarding immigration and gay marriages.</p>

<p>First of all, I would like to go over what Elcommando said:</p>

<p>“Now i know not all gays are like Jackson but i still think they have a personal reason why they CHOSE to be gay.”</p>

<p>Being gay is part of HUMAN DEVELOPMENT, it is not something people can “choose.” What reason do they have to make a “choice”? I think it is an totally psychological issue.</p>

<p>“EXACTLY THEY WANT TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEMSELVES!! now we are getting somewhere.”</p>

<p>By saying that (lol) you got us nowhere. What do they have to feel sorry for? They have their own personal beliefs and way of life. They are HUMAN BEINGS, not outcasts. So what do have to feel sorry for? </p>

<p>“It obviously affects them. I cant stress this enough. Have you seen the Michael Jackson things on tv? A psychiatrist or whoever says that those kids he's with act exactly like those molested kids. There are also very strong implications that his father molesteed him as a child.”</p>

<p>Ok, now Michael Jackson is a freak. He went from black to white, has no nose, obsessed with little kids and thinks he’s Peter Pan. I don’t think the average gay person is like him. Of course many gay people have personal backgrounds, but its mostly psychological. They fall in love just the same way we do (just in their case it’s the same sex). So please don’t insult them by implying that being gay is a freak incident and had to do with something wrong such as abuses. DICK CHENEY’S DAUGHTER IS LESBIAN, BUT DOES THAT ME HE ABUSED HER?</p>

<p>“this doesnt mean we should cater to them. its the same idea as the atheists wanting to remove "under God" from the pledge which is ridiculous.”</p>

<p>Actually you are wrong here. If we allow what the atheists want, which is removing “under God” in our pledge, THEN THE REST WHO HAVE FAITH WILL ALSO BE AFFECTED, since everyone will have to say the same pledge. In the cases of gay people the situation is different. If a gay person marries, will that affect you or any other American for that matter? The live their own lives while we live ours. Our beliefs/actions will not affect each other in any way. Did you get my point?</p>

<p>“Why dont you guys start REALLY debating the issues instead of just dismissing my arguments without anything but a "put down" because it does nothing but show you have no evidence to back up your dismissals of my arguments.”</p>

<p>I hope I made my point clear. If you need any further explanation, I will gladly assist you. To be honest, you are making wild claims without supporting them yourself.</p>

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<p>Now, time to reply to the other posts:</p>

<p>“Hitler chose to kill other people. Yeah, he's good, it's just his choice. No,no, no... Defending gays and lesbians will lead us to the collapse. They decompose the society. like bacteria. like cancer. What do we do with infection? Kill it!!”</p>

<p>If you want to debate, please make valid statements. There is no need to freak others out!</p>

<p>“So why are they citizens of America? they must be pariahs and outcasts..”</p>

<p>What are you, liberal or conservative? Whatever you are, I doubt anyone agrees with you.</p>

<p>"I also am against Gay marriage because marriage has and always hopefully will be a sacred institution between a man and a woman. Do I think that sodomites are sinners? Absolutely. Do I think they live their life in sin and live, generally, more promiscuous/drug involved lives? Absolutely. But I don't think that this makes them a person who should not have some rights. Hate the sin, not the sinner.'</p>

<p>BCgoUSc, I think what you said is very controversial. As a person who has faith, I do understand what you are saying. But the reasons for you not approving gay marriages is PERSONAL. Many people don't think gay marriage is a sin and there's nothing wrong with it. Also, according to a recent survey, only 28% of Americans disapprove of gay marriages bcause it is a sin. Whatever the reason is, its all PERSONAL, and I dont think it was right on Bush's part to politicize it to a great extent, because the country is divided over the issue.</p>

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<p>Funny, that seems to be exactly what you're doing. I've substantiated everything that I've put forth so far--where's your evidence?</p>

<p>No you havent because these are our opinions. And i was talking about the one kid who kept saying "Riiiight".</p>

<p>I too am against his immigrant policy of allowing them into our country so see we are not totally at odds. </p>

<p>If a gay person marries, will that affect you or any other American for that matter? </p>

<p>OK? If someone killed another person who i didnt know it would not affect me but does that make it right? NO, I still have a moral responsibility to stop that murderer which is why we have police. The police are for the good of our country just as the banning of gay marriage is good for our country. </p>

<p>Ok now to go off this subject for a little while...the border is like a leaky faucet and should be completely repaired. I dont want one darn person to cross that again. It really <em>es me off that people come here and use us. Then they have no national pride and won't defend our country if asked. Hello? You came here remember? Nobody forced you to come but I sure as he</em> will force u to leave. </p>

<p>only 28% of Americans disapprove of gay marriages bcause it is a sin</p>

<p>Surveys can be accurate but what if the survey was taken in San Franscisco? Then obviously the % is going to be low. </p>

<p>Hate the sin, not the sinner.</p>

<p>Thats kinda hard to do seeing how the sinner is the one who purposefully committed the sin.</p>

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<p>“OK? If someone killed another person who i didnt know it would not affect me but does that make it right?”</p>

<p>You haven’t gotten my point. When there is a murder, there is a loss of life. When there is loss of life, it affects the victim’s beloved in terms of depressions from friends and family. When a gay couple marries, there is no such incidence, it DOESN’T AFFECT ANYONE. Also, almost EVERYONE believes killing is wrong, while our nation is DIVIDED over the issue of gay marriage. So you made poor comparison here.</p>

<p>“Ok now to go off this subject for a little while...the border is like a leaky faucet and should be completely repaired. I dont want one darn person to cross that again. It really <em>es me off that people come here and use us. Then they have no national pride and won't defend our country if asked. Hello? You came here remember? Nobody forced you to come but I sure as he</em> will force u to leave.”</p>

<p>What are you talking about? Are you saying this to bring humor?</p>

<p>“Funny, that seems to be exactly what you're doing. I've substantiated everything that I've put forth so far--where's your evidence?”</p>

<p>Hmmm…. So you are are saying that your posts are legit? Lets see:</p>

<p>1.“Now i know not all gays are like Jackson but i still think they have a personal reason why they CHOSE to be gay.”
Is there any proof that gays “choose” to be gay? I don’t think you substantiated this.</p>

<p>2."EXACTLY THEY WANT TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEMSELVES!! now we are getting somewhere.”
Is there there anything to substanciate this?</p>

<p>3.You say that gays were abused. But you haven’t defended yourself when I talked about Michael Jackson and Dick Cheney’s daughter.</p>

<p>3.“Surveys can be accurate but what if the survey was taken in San Franscisco? Then obviously the % is going to be low.”
Did I SAY the survey was in San Francisco? The survey was taken NATIONALLY.</p>

<p>So in conclusion, you need a lot of explaining to do. I have supported my points using COMMON SENSE and facts. I have also provided statistics taken from a source. If you don’t know the difference in making invalid claims and supporting them, then please look at the way your conservative buddies approached the debate.</p>

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<p>I obviously do not know your religious convictions ElCommando, but if you don't live by the credo "Hate the sin, not the sinner" then honestly you can't call yourself a good Judeo/Christian person.</p>