Debate!!!

College Confidential Community
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<p>15.)BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to...establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]</p>

<p>...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]</p>

<p>16.)BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]</p>

<p>17.)BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]</p>

<p>18.)BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]</p>

<p>19.)BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]</p>

<p>...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]</p>

<p>20.)BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]</p>

<p>21.)BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]</p>

<p>22.)BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]</p>

<p>...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]</p>

<p>23.)BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]</p>

<p>...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]</p>

<p>24.)BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]</p>

<p>...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]</p>

<p>25.)BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]</p>

<p>...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]</p>

<p>26.)Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import." [President Bush, 3/27/02]</p>

<p>…Bush says 527s bad for system: "I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold." [President Bush, 8/23/04]</p>

<p>27.)Bush says medical records must remain private: "I believe that we must protect…the right of every American to have confidence that his or her personal medical records will remain private." [President Bush, 4/12/01]</p>

<p>…Bush says patients' histories are not confidntial: The Justice Department…asserts that patients "no longer possess a reasonable expectation that their histories will remain completely confidential." [BusinessWeek, 4/30/04]</p>

<p>28.)Bush sets timeline for Saddam: "If Iraq does not accept the terms within a week of passage or fails to disclose required information within 30 days, the resolution authorizes 'all necessary means' to force compliance--in other words, a military attack." [LA Times, 10/3/02]</p>

<p>…Bush says he's against timelines: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators." [President Bush, 8/27/04]</p>

<p>29.)Bush wants to divert great lakes: "Even though experts say 'diverting any water from the Great Lakes region sets a bad precedent' Bush 'said he wants to talk to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien about piping water to parched states in the west and southwest.'– [AP, 7/19/01]</p>

<p>Bush says he'll never divert Great Lakes: "We've got to use our resources wisely, like water. It starts with keeping the Great Lakes water in the Great Lakes Basin...My position is clear: We're never going to allow diversion of Great Lakes water." [President Bush, 8/16/04]</p>

<p>30.)Bush claims he can win the war on terror: "One of the interesting things people ask me, now that we're asking questions, is, can you ever win the war on terror? Of course, you can." [President Bush, 4/13/04]</p>

<p>…Bush says war on terror is unwinnable: "I don't think you can win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/30/04]</p>

<p>…Bush says he will win the war on terror: "Make no mistake about it, we are winning and we will win [the war on terror]." [President Bush, 8/31/04]</p>

<p>SOURCES - This is an abridge version of what my AP Government teacher gave me for an assignment. They were taken from a variety of speeches made by Bush.</p>

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<p>Ok, I read one of those sources and here is what it said: They were asking the question if Blair preferred Kerry or not. They never gave a definitive answer because they were speculating. They said that Blair didn't even call Kerry to congratulate him on his nomination. The only thing they said was that his wife didn't like Bush. Wow, when does that matter?</p>

<p>And I'm not going to read your mindless copying-and-pasting binge. If you want to have a structured debate I would gladly participate, but if you're going to copy and paste thousands of characters then it's a waste of my time.</p>

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<p>Just face it. you dont have any good reponses because this is REAL proof that Bush is a flip-flopper.</p>

<p>Also, since you have requested, i will stop copying my sources. but what do YOU have to say regarding all the flip-flopping in Bush's speeches? Kerry flip-flopped once, but i have shown just 30 or so examples of Bush's limitless flip-flopping.</p>

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<p>Debates are the putting forth of ideas and positions with factual support, not just the spewing forth of facts primitive.</p>

<p>And to make up for lost time, about your quote saying that all other countries would rather have Kerry. Ummm...duh! Because he would cater to them and make everything easier for them. It is the people of America who decide our president. NOT 30 Other Countries!!!</p>

<p>And Hilary, I can not believe that your church has an openly homosexual minister. It deeply saddens me that churches can now have ministers who openly live a sinful life.</p>

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<p>Well I guess we will never know if your "facts" prove that Bush is a flip-flopper or not because I'm not going to waste my time reading it. Maybe you have never watched a debate before, but the contestants don't spend their time quoting random websites. It takes actual research.</p>

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<p>"Because he would cater to them and make everything easier for them. It is the people of America who decide our president. NOT 30 Other Countries!!!</p>

<p>I WANT PROOF!!</p>

<p>And also, America needs support on the WAR ON TERRORISM, not the war on Iraq. And in order to accommplish this, they need allies. So your remarks are not helpful since Bush is dependent on other countries to help him. Please dont make me explain to you basic information.</p>

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<p>uc_benz, just face it. you have nothing legit as a response. you cant defend Bush from here on. </p>

<p>i admit to copying and promised not to do so again. So there's no reason for you to chicken out like you did in the Dartmouth board.</p>

<p>"Ok, I read one of those sources and here is what it said: They were asking the question if Blair "</p>

<p>what about the other sources? You just read 1 out of 9!! this means you dont have the courage to face the rest of the sources?</p>

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<p>Or I have other stuff to do rather than read all of your sources? Yes, that's it. If you posted all of them regarding the same topic then they should hold all of the same information.</p>

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<p>same topic? i dont think so. please read then make conclusions!!</p>

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<p>Just because the British forces are withdrawing some of their troops doesn't mean Tony Blair wanted Kerry in office. Stop making hyper-inflated, biased claims. Even your completely left-of-centre website doesn't support what you state.</p>

<p>And FYI, the websites you quoted all of this from was probably out of context, just like the liberals complain about the GOP "mis-quoting" Kerry. By the way, they are 527 organizations in favour of the Democratic party platform -- hardly unbiased, in my honest opinion.</p>

<p>C'mon. I dare you. Go do some better research instead of the compilation that Democrat-527 organization groups put together in a hurry.</p>

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<p>since you dared me, i can give it try. but i dont guarantee satisfactory results.</p>

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<p>And while we're on the subject, let me make a few point, straight out of the .. well, let's not get into my personal opinion of Michael Moore:</p>

<p>Excerpt is here:
<a href="http://user688038.wx13.registeredsite.com/speech/MOORE,%20Michael%202004.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://user688038.wx13.registeredsite.com/speech/MOORE,%20Michael%202004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I actually attended this event, so eh.</p>

<p>Here is what cost John Kerry the election:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Somebody tell me Kerry’s story. What was the story? I’m not Bush? I’m not Bush, that’s a tag line that’s not a story.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Andrew Gowers, Financial Times, London:</p>

<p>
[quote]
But then to give the other side of the story I alluded to, I was looking in Die Sueddeutsche Zeitung, the largest circulation quality newspaper in Germany, and quote from that commentary for the last few days: “Kerry’s biggest problem is called Kerry and to solve it he’ll have to slip out of his own skin.” They could understand the continuing appeal of President Bush in the sense that he embodies clarity, decisiveness and even optimism in the face of these terrible events.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://user688038.wx13.registeredsite.com/speech/FINANCIAL%20TIMES%202004.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://user688038.wx13.registeredsite.com/speech/FINANCIAL%20TIMES%202004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also went to that one. Interesting quotes, mind you, portraying Kerry's weaknesses. It wasn't just the flip-flopping.</p>

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<p>"Because he would cater to them and make everything easier for them. It is the people of America who decide our president. NOT 30 Other Countries!!!
I WANT PROOF!!</p>

<p>Ok primitive i have proof. </p>

<p>“I support U.S. participation in the International Criminal Court, but also believe that U.S. officials, including soldiers, should be
provided some protection from politically motivated prosecutions.”
- John Kerry, Peace Action Candidate Questionnaire response, Spring 2004</p>

<p>Do you know what the criminal court is primitive?
<a href="http://www.amicc.org/docs/Bush-Kerry%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amicc.org/docs/Bush-Kerry%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Yeah it is a ******** court that can bring ******** cases against US Citizens. US Citizens are under US LAW.</p>

<p>I mean I honestly don't think that the other countries favored Kerry because of the stand up guy he was. Use some common sense primitive.</p>

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<p>Do all of the leaders like Kerry because he met with them personally and had a heart-to-heart talk with them? Of course! Oh wait, or did he?</p>

<p><a href="http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041025-020600-3030r.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041025-020600-3030r.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Sorry to jump into the debate late, but I must say that reading stardragon's and ElCommando's posts were at first humorous, but then scary. It's amazing how many Americans think with a mob mentality sometimes. </p>

<p>Right now, gays and supporters of gay-rights are minorities. In the future, just like many groups, gays will eventually get even more substantial proof that they were born gay. I think that in years to come gays will get equal rights, but unfortunately, the country is too afraid of different types of people to actually accept them. </p>

<p>I'm a Christian, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with being gay. I go by the 10 commandements, and homosexuality isn't listed, so I don't have a problem accepting gay lifestyles. Leviticus does talk about how gays gross him out, but the bible also has some other weird stuff in it that no one actually abides by. Remember that the bible was written by Humans, not God.</p>

<p>I think that supporters of gay marriage will go down in history as good people, while Bush and all the religious evangelicals will be portrayed as bad people. The reason most Americans have problems with gays is A)They are homophobic or B)They are against it for religious purposes. </p>

<p>Well, just because something goes against your religion doesn't mean that it should not be allowed. The founding fathers were Christian, and most Christians consider the Jewish/Islamic/Hindu religions to be immoral. Should those immoral people not be allowed to marry? </p>

<p>Secondly, lots of things are against people's religions. Why don't we ban PORN? Politicians aren't publicizing that! That's wrong, and worst of all, people aren't married when they have sex! </p>

<p>The argument that people want to be gay is totally outrageous. Why would someone want to be an outcast or hated by society? Do you think its a coincidence that gays have high suicide rates? </p>

<p>Also, stardragon is crazy. He also hates Jewish people. I'm dead serious. I had a debate with him a few months back.</p>

<p>I agree with Tlaktan. I don't believe in gay marriage. I support equal rights/privledges for gays, which would entail civil unions. Marriage is defined as something between a man and a woman. </p>

<p>I have no problem with people being against homosexuality. I don't understand it, but that's someone's personal opinion, just like people can be in the KKK if they choose to be. Isn't there something in the bible also advocating slavery for dark-skinned people?</p>

<p>I'm a vegetarian and I strongly believe in my beliefs. Do I have a right to enforce those beliefs on others if the majority of America was a vegetarian.</p>

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<p>Hoo, I totally agree. I admire your analysis. Eventually the consrvatives will change positions regarding gay mariage.</p>

<p>Not of the conservatives had the guts to respond to my post regarding Bush being a flip-flopper, and so i find it unfair for me to respond to any of their posts if they can't answer mine.</p>

<p>And about Elcommando, dont worry much about it , Hoo. He himself said that he posts without thinking.</p>

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<p>I'm kind of over the whole anti-Bush thing. It's not like John Kerry would really be much greater. However, the gay issue won't go away. </p>

<p>One thing I left out is that many people(younger males especially) feel it necessary to prove their manhood and masculinity by expressing their dislike for gays. They are homophobic because they are insecure with themselves and just think it's gross. If they were so against it for religious reasons, then they would try to convert homos, not call them fags. </p>

<p>Some of you are sounding like Hitler...seriously. Hitler was all about killing off lesser races and unproductive members of society. He killed homosexuals and disabled people because they weren't capable of reproducing. Life isn't always about being productive and popping out babies. Gays deserve the right to live how they want to live, even if other morons don't agree with it.</p>

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<p>I am jumping into the discussion quite late, but I just wanted to say something about gay marriage. Hoo articulated his point well I think, but as an individual who feels so strongly about gay marriage issue by skin since I'm a bi kid, the talk of gay marriage and how ppl "support" or "oppose" kinda irritates me. I understand it in my head, but not by heart. Some people even say stuff like "I don't believe in Bi". What do you mean you don't believe in bi. I AM ONE!! Grrr Some ppl even try to tell you who the hell you are. Well, excuse me, I think I know who/what I am.</p>

<p>I'm not some sort of monster or any less than any of straight folks. I know you guys will have a lot to say about this, but I'm just saying, it doesn't feel good to know that my rights as a human being are oppressed and my privacy becomes a topic of public discussion. Imagine ton of ppl telling you in a face that you can't marry someone you love cuz you just CAN'T as if me being with whomever I want causes harm to society or something. Ppl are entitled to have their own opinion, but let me tell you this right now; it just hurts. It's enough I can't tell my peeps that I'm a bi or I'll be disowned in about a sec. I don't need the whole damn country going against me. Gosh darn it. </p>

<p>About Bush administration.. I am a liberal democrat. I care about US a lot and always hope for the best. I support my president, but remember; there are many ways to support our leader. You could support him as a yes-man or a cynic. Well, I choose to be a cynic, but I still support him and wish him the best in leading this country to the top. I disagree with him in many aspects especially in foreign relations and education (NCLB), not to mention gas price going up ****es me off so much. I believe he could do better.</p>

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<p>The funny thing is that I am a libertarian/republican at heart. I am fiscally conservative, but I feel that the government needs to stay out of people's businesses. If anything, the Bush administration has gone against Republican ideology by increasing federal power. He has advocated that people ban gay marriages and civil unions because they think they're wrong. He implemented The Patriot Act. He has increased spending on a war which turns out wasn't even neccessary. I can understand the whole "bad intelligence" excuse, but it turns out that his trusted advisors and Colin Powell advised against war. He just jumped into it. Also, look at how Bush handled the Terri S. case! He jumped on the crazy neo-Nazi conservative bandwagon AS ALWAYS and went against everything his party stood for to do what he wanted. How ridiculous! </p>

<p>I hate the way The Republican party has become all about social issues! People are not democrat/republican anymore because of their beliefs in the way a government should be run, but because of stupid crap like abortion. I hate the way no one is moderate anymore. Either I vote for the psycho Republicans or the tree-hugging Democrats. Anyone who stands in the middle(Lieberman, McCain) gets criticized and shafted in the primaries. </p>

<p>As a resident of Georgia, I am shocked at the conservativeness of Republicans. Our president supports some people simply because of their political affiliation. We have a horrible governor who has been bought into making decisions for campaign money and who has cut education spending through the roof, yet Bush has no problem expressing his approval of his policies. Georgia Tech and University of Georgia students HATE him because he has CUT governors scholarships to keep smart students in-state! Classes are getting bigger, and The HOPE scholarships is being funded less! What is up with Bush's partisanship? Sonny Perdue(yes,the guy from the American idol finale) is is the most incompetent governor in GA's history, and Bush is fine with his policies.</p>