<p>hhboyji: I'm sorry that people are like that. Maybe my generation of straight people will become more tolerant of decent, yet abnormal lifestyles.</p>
<p>Well if you choose to embrace an alternative lifestyle then you have to be willing to take the criticism that comes along with it. The important thing is blocking that criticism (which, yes, is hard to do at times) and live your life the way you want to live it, not someone else.</p>
<p>Hoo
[quote]
I'm a Christian, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with being gay. I go by the 10 commandements, and homosexuality isn't listed, so I don't have a problem accepting gay lifestyles. Leviticus does talk about how gays gross him out, but the bible also has some other weird stuff in it that no one actually abides by. Remember that the bible was written by Humans, not God.
[/quote]
A lot of things are not mentioned in the 10 commandments, but the idea of having extramarital affairs is, and with homosexuality being outlawed, a gay relationship, even if monogomout, is still extramarital. Also murder is in the 10 commandments, but we don't outlaw abortion. I am curious as to whether you are pro choice or pro life to see if all of your opinions are in agreeance.
[quote]
Isn't there something in the bible also advocating slavery for dark-skinned people?
[/quote]
Yes. Ephesians 5:25. Not to excuse it of course, but it does say that masters should treat their servants with the love that God has for his children.</p>
<p>hhboy
[quote]
I choose to be a cynic, but I still support him and wish him the best in leading this country to the top. I disagree with him in many aspects especially in foreign relations and education (NCLB), not to mention gas price going up ****es me off so much. I believe he could do better.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The hike in gas prices is not Bushes fault. It makes me mad also, but it is the fault of the Oil Cartels (OPEC) who want to fill their pockets. The government already highly subsidizes gas prices, so either get OPEC to change, get Congress to lower the petroleum taxes, or something.</p>
<p>Hoo, I am also an economic libertarian and social conservative. I agree completely that the GOP has destroyed states rights and the idea of federalism, but I do agree that the Government can regulate social morality if it is done in a legal way. i.e. Constitutional Amendment, legal Legislative actions. I think your characterizations of the Bush administration as neo-nazi are way off base. He wants to regulate morality, not destroy peoples because of who they are. Bush can not even be compared with Hitler and I am appalled that you would.</p>
<p>The conservatives made this whole debate into an issue of religion. I still didnt get any response from anyone regarding Bush being a flip-flopper. I doubt anyone can even defend him. Anyways, its been fun enlightening the conservatives, who always accuse Kerry as a flip-flopper while Bush himself is a bigger one.</p>
<p>Btw, I too the test on politicalcompass.com and my results are:
Economic left/right = -4.38
Social libertarian/authority = -2.77</p>
<p>I was really close to Gandhi, which makes me proud of my political standings.</p>
<p>hhboyji, consider me your new friend.</p>
<p>Economic Left/Right = 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian = 3.69</p>
<p>I never said I agreed with Bush so I don't feel the need to defend him.</p>
<p>I'm closest to Silvo Berlusconi on the chart from politicalcompass.org</p>
<p>"I never said I agreed with Bush so I don't feel the need to defend him."</p>
<p>Well does that mean you agree that Bush is s flip-flopper?</p>
<p>Could someone tell me how to do the quote thing? I don't know how.</p>
<p>This is what I stated:
"Some of you are sounding like Hitler...seriously. Hitler was all about killing off lesser races and unproductive members of society. He killed homosexuals and disabled people because they weren't capable of reproducing. Life isn't always about being productive and popping out babies. Gays deserve the right to live how they want to live, even if other morons don't agree with it."</p>
<p>BCgoUSC: I'm sorry if I sounded like I was comparing Hitler to Bush. I think Bush is a very moral man who would never do such a thing, but he gets swept up in religion and partisan issues that negatively influence the Republican party. If you want to admit it or not, there's some real wackos who support the Republican party. The same can be said for The Democrats. Just look at Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, Sean Hannity, Pat Robertson, etc. Their heavy followers can be extremely hateful of gays, as was Hitler. Just read what Stardragon posted: "Defending gays and lesbians will lead us to the collapse. They decompose the society. like bacteria. like cancer. What do we do with infection? Kill it!!" </p>
<p>I'm sorry, but that is exactly what Hitler did. Maybe you personally don't agree, but there are wacko conservatives out there that honestly believe that. I have grown up around this. Northerners don't realize what people are like in the south. If you don't believe me, then move to Northern Georgia or Tennessee. I've come in contact with past KKK members and congressmen who honestly say and believe this stuff. </p>
<p>I just believe that Republicans need to stay out of my business and the business of others. It's like the Republicans switched parties with the Democrats of the 60s.</p>
<p>"Yes. Ephesians 5:25. Not to excuse it of course, but it does say that masters should treat their servants with the love that God has for his children."</p>
<p>Again, this is proof that the bible has mistakes AND is written by mortals!!! </p>
<p>"I agree completely that the GOP has destroyed states rights and the idea of federalism, but I do agree that the Government can regulate social morality if it is done in a legal way. i.e. Constitutional Amendment, legal Legislative actions."</p>
<p>I'm confused. States' rights and federalism are two different things. I was arguing Republican were overdoing federalism(the belief in a strong central government). I hate bureaucracy.</p>
<p>I think BCgoUSC and I have a lot more in common than we realize. The main issue in politics that I have a problem is the social conservatism in the Republican party. </p>
<p>If I were president, I would eliminate social security completely. I can save for myself. I don't need the government to do it for me. </p>
<p>Another thing that REALLY makes me mad that no one ever brings up is farm subsidies. I'd love to debate that! We spent literally over 16 billion a year on farm subsidies that are completely unnessecary. Unfortunately, no one in either party has the balls to go against these. However, the Republican party should be against such spending and try to pay off our growing deficit.</p>
<p>I'll get something straight and I'm out of this discussion (which I really haven't actively participated lol). You guys just don't know how stressful it makes me to hear people talking about it. I know I can't stop it, but I guess I can avoid it since ppl are just not going to listen. I rather face homophobes (I'm not saying any of you guys are) face to face, and have them tell me to go to hell; that way I have a valid excuse to get the discussion started. haha</p>
<p>UC_Benz: I didn't choose to embrace such life-style. I was bi as long as I can remember. People can debate all they want; but I know this by heart.</p>
<p>Wow. Spring break gives me too much time on my hands. I'll be back later tonight. Gotta go to work. Btw, BCgoUSC, I forgot to answer your question on abortion. I am pro-choice, but I am VERY opposed to partial-birth abortion.</p>
<p>i believeelcommando (and uc_benz to a limited extent) are both homophobic, as the tone and the way they post their messages indicate that they strongly disapprove gays. </p>
<p>like i said before, gays are no freak incidents. they should not be killed or be treated differently or as outcasts as many "wild" conservatives want. THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS. </p>
<p>AND BTW, studies show that Hitler and Stalin contributed to conservative ideologies. Read this:
<a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33714%5B/url%5D">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33714</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sorry, but that is exactly what Hitler did. Maybe you personally don't agree, but there are wacko conservatives out there that honestly believe that. I have grown up around this. Northerners don't realize what people are like in the south. If you don't believe me, then move to Northern Georgia or Tennessee. I've come in contact with past KKK members and congressmen who honestly say and believe this stuff.
[/quote]
WHOA!!! I'm from South Carolina, so you don't have to tell me twice. I see it on a daily basis.
[quote]
"Yes. Ephesians 5:25. Not to excuse it of course, but it does say that masters should treat their servants with the love that God has for his children."
[/quote]
You have to remember that the Bible is a collection of stories and not merely a rulebook. What we must do is extract the meaning from these stories. Of course, some things like the 10 commandments are law, but in this verses case, we are supposed to extract that even if you are someone's earthly master, you should treat that servant with love as if they are your son. The bible is ambiguous on the morality of slavery.
[quote]
I'm confused. States' rights and federalism are two different things. I was arguing Republican were overdoing federalism(the belief in a strong central government). I hate bureaucracy.
[/quote]
You are right that they are two different things, but you are mixing up federalism (the principle) with the federalist party platform. The actual principle of federalism is the distribution of power between the central authority and constituent authorities (i.e. local/state authorities). There are several theories of federalism. I believe in layer cake federalism as opposed to marble cake. Layer cake is that the state and national government have distinct responsibilities and marble cake is more of a mixing up and sharing of a lot of powers. Layer cake is more of a constructionist view which you would probably agree with.
[quote]
If I were president, I would eliminate social security completely. I can save for myself. I don't need the government to do it for me.
[/quote]
I completely agree about that also. Even FDR would have said that Social Security was only a temporary fix for a small portion of the population.
[quote]
Another thing that REALLY makes me mad that no one ever brings up is farm subsidies. I'd love to debate that! We spent literally over 16 billion a year on farm subsidies that are completely unnessecary. Unfortunately, no one in either party has the balls to go against these. However, the Republican party should be against such spending and try to pay off our growing deficit.
[/quote]
You are also right on this. I believe that if I say that we should get out of NAFTA etc... for a free market, then we must do the same all around thereby eliminating almost all government subsidies (if not all).
[quote]
Btw, BCgoUSC, I forgot to answer your question on abortion. I am pro-choice, but I am VERY opposed to partial-birth abortion.
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, I can understand your point of view on this perfectly seeing as how you identify yourself as a libertarian, but when you referred to the 10 commandments being important, and "Thou Shalt not Murder" is one of them, do you just not consider a fetus a being that can be murdered? What I mean is do you just not think that life starts at conception?
[quote]
AND BTW, studies show that Hitler and Stalin contributed to conservative ideologies. Read this:
<a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=33714%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=33714
[/quote]
</a> I read it and it has a few valid points but for the most part is merely psychobabble. It also comes out of UC Berkeley. Studies like that are a dime a dozen. I'm very sure that there are numerous studies that go in the opposite view. I don't have them off hand, but just take that article with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>He just jumped into it. Also, look at how Bush handled the Terri S. case!</p>
<p>Was he for or against life?</p>
<p>I believe her case went down as well as anyone couldve hoped. Her parents were freakin crazy...they just wanted to pretend she was still alive, thats kinda sickening in a way, I mean they were prolonging her agony for very selfish reasons.</p>
<p>Also, stardragon is crazy. He also hates Jewish people. I'm dead serious. I had a debate with him a few months back.</p>
<p>Ok? maybe he has a jewish mother who raped him as a child? LOL just kidding! (i know you guys think i use that for everything)</p>
<p>Not of the conservatives had the guts to respond to my post regarding Bush being a flip-flopper, and so i find it unfair for me to respond to any of their posts if they can't answer mine.</p>
<p>Bush is obviously not a flip flopper and if you are going to use such a terrible excuse as that to not anser my VALID fact which you know you cant repute, then why debate?</p>
<p>Wow, you are way out of line calling me homophobic. You don't know me, yet you insist on personal attacks over the Internet? You should evaluate yourself before trying to denegrate people you will never even know. I know several gay/lesbian people, and I feel as comfortable around them as I do my straight friends. I'm just saying, if you choose to embrace an alternative lifestyle then you should know what is going to come with it. Do I agree with what comes with it? No, but I'm obviously not a supreme being so I can't decide what happens.</p>
<p>And do you really think Conservatives are the only ones voting for bans on gay marriage? If you do, then the left wing has sadly mislead you. Voters in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah all approved bans on gay marriage by DOUBLE DIGIT MARGINS.</p>
<p>And primitivefuture, continue hiding behind your user name. Your habitual attempts to create conflict aren't going to go over well when you enter the real world. Just a word of advice.</p>
<p>"Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah all approved bans on gay marriage by DOUBLE DIGIT MARGINS."</p>
<p>hmm... werent these the red states that went for Bush during the 2004 election? You should check your sources before making conclusions. thats MY word of advice.</p>
<p>"Bush is obviously not a flip flopper and if you are going to use such a terrible excuse as that to not anser my VALID fact which you know you cant repute, then why debate?"</p>
<p>Are you serious? I PROVIDED 32 VALID EXAMPLES OF BUSH AS A FLIP-FLOPPER. If you cant provide a logical reason behind them, then it is mature to admit it.</p>
<p>"Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah all approved bans on gay marriage by DOUBLE DIGIT MARGINS."</p>
<p>hmm... werent these the red states that went for Bush during the 2004 election. You should check your sources before making conclusions. thats my word of advice.</p>
<p>Orego went for Kerry actually.</p>
<p>We can argue back and forth whether or not gay marriage should be allowed, but the fact is, if the majority of society doesn't approve of it, it won't be a real marriage. Perhaps courts in some states have ruled the gay marriage is "legal" that doesn't matter if most people in those states know in their hearts that the real definition of marriage is the union between one man and one woman. Same sex couples can "pretend" all they want.</p>
<p>And back to my point, everyone has the right to marry, just as long it's someone of the opposite sex.</p>
<p>I guess you are right, though the whole issue is not fair. I proposed talking about Bush's economic policies, but nobody had the balls to reply. </p>
<p>Also , again, the conservatives failed to reply to my posts of Bush being a flip-flopper.</p>
<p>Oregon AND Michigan went for Kerry. But I guess these states don't matter, right primitive?</p>
<p>Here's an interesting stat for you:
11% of Democrats voted for Bush, while only 6% of Republicans voted for Kerry.</p>
<p>"Also , again, the conservatives failed to reply to my posts of Bush being a flip-flopper."</p>
<p>?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????</p>