My daughter is a senior in high school this year and has been accepted into all the schools she’s applied to. We are from Illinois.
She’s down to the following:
Truman State & ISU - would graduate debt free after scholarships and money we are providing
Eastern Illinois - would graduate with about $30,000 to her name after scholarships and our money
UK and Mizzou - would graduate with about $30,000 student loans after scholarships and our money
U of I - Urbana/Champaign and Bradley - would graduate with about $70,000 student loans
I feel out of all of these schools, U of I is has the best name, but I’m really not sure how much that is worth.
At this point, she is also undecided, but is leaning toward business - specifically Accounting at this point, but that could very well change.
I know in the end, it’s her decision, but would love any opinions / advice.
Does this mean she would graduate with ~$30K left over (unspent) in a college savings account (or some such)?
So in that case, Eastern Illinois would be the cheapest on your list, right?
It’s probably not worth an extra $40K to $100K premium for an accounting major, in my opinion.
$70K is way over the borrowing limit for federal student loans.
Even $30K is near the upper edge of those limits.
Do you happen to know any accountants? If so, do you have any idea where they went to college? Would you care?
Why would it be her decision? You will have to put your name, your credit on the line for the debt, she can’t take that on her own. You will have to do parent plus or private loan. And she could not be expected to make the 1,800 or so per month payments that will be due right after graduation so will you be making the bulk of those payments and for how long?
Student Loans are, for each year fresh to sr: 5,500/6,500/7,500/7,500 so the rest of the loans would be yours and I hope that you would realize that this is sort of funny money to a teen and they don’t seem to be able to grasp the reality of payments or the power of compound interest.
Are all schools accredited for accounting? If not, cross them out.
Truman State is a wonderful school and if she were to graduate debt-free, it wouldn’t be bad. It is, though, rather rural (if that plays a role).
I agree UIUC is not worth 70k in debt. The upper limit of undergrad debt should be about 30k (27k), the federal limit, which exists at this level because that’s what an undergraduate can expect to be able to pay back in 10 years if they find an appropriate job.
Thanks you all for your feedback. To try to answer a few questions - yes, at Eastern (Illinois) she would graduate with some of the money that was saved for her college education in the bank.
I was under the impression that she could get loans from a Sallie Mae type place to make up the difference between costs and the federal loans. I will admit that I’m not as knowledgeable about the loans as I should be. I wish we would just get all the final financial packages to know exactly where everything stands.
I do know some accountants (I’m one who graduated from Truman) and in the town where I work (local place in medium sized town Illinois), it doesn’t matter. Problem is, we also know 2 accountants who graduated from UIUC who are both very successful (as in make a lot more money than I do), but I think it has as much to do with their personalities as it does with where they graduated from college. But I really don’t know that for sure.
She’s thinking of wanting to start out in public accounting, I just don’t know if she’d have more opportunities at the big accounting firms with a degree from the bigger universities instead of the lesser known ones.
I just find it interesting that she is eligible for lot of automatic merit based scholarships at a lot of colleges and nothing from UIUC. I guess that many people just want to go there and unfortunately, I’m sure our family will qualify for nothing other than loans. Next year could be different since she has a sister starting college next year too, but we won’t know that for yet another year.
In the end, if it is my husband and I that would have to take out the loans, it will be out of the question. She is the oldest of our 3 kids and there is no way we can do that for all of our kids. We are basically offering them each $10,000 a year for the first 4 years of their education ($40,000 total). Past that, it is up to them. I always thought that was generous, but I’m finding that it really doesn’t get them much when we don’t qualify for any grants. If it’s not scholarships, it’s loans and that’s not how I want them starting out, but sometimes it seems like that’s one of the only choices.
I don’t think that a ton of loans makes a lot of sense. Especially for an accounting major. It’s not really known outside MO but many high-achieving MO kids go to Truman St. & it’s more LAC-ish in feel. I’d say that’s the smartest choice. My opinion is that none of the other schools besides UIUC are really better for accounting and $70K is too much in loans. If you’re not willing to take that amount in loans, you shouldn’t allow your kids to take on such a burden either.
In the end, your daughter’s own attributes and work ethic (and pure dumb luck) will matter a lot more when it comes to career advancement than what school she went to.
For that matter, not having debt will likely have a greater impact on her life than where she goes to school.
For the record, 10k per year is both generous and not… Nowadays, it doesn’t even cover room and board at a public university, yet it is a lot of money. The basic costs are now in the 20-30k even for public universities. It’s crazy and nobody could have predicted such an increase!
Will you also refund your child the tax credit you’ll get for her college education?
Nowadays, it’s not possible for a student to borrow money on their own. Either parents borrow (Parents PLUS loans) or Parents co-sign (ie., shoulder the burden and the interest).
Look at the corporate recruiting at the various schools and see if working at some of those companies would make her happy. If she wants to work at one of the Big 4 straight out of college, UIUC is the best bet. However, going to Truman State or any of the other schools shouldn’t hamper her success once she gets into the firm itself.
In theory, yes, but you have to co-sign those loans. If she is unable to pay them for any reason - let’s say, she can’t get a job right out of college, or gets laid off, of has trouble keeping up - you are on the hook to repay them. Besides, $70K is just way too much. Under standard repayment, that’s about $800/month in student loans. The average salary for a recent college graduate with an accounting degree seems to be about $45-55,000 a year; $800/month is WAY too much money to repay on that salary. I make about $50,000 now in a low cost of living area, and I couldn’t repay $800/month in loans.
$30,000 in loans on standard repayment, at 6.8%, is about $345/month, or about $4,140 a year. At my salary level, $345/month would be manageable, but still a lot! I can think of a lot of things I would rather do with that money than repay student loans (including save it for a house). If you think the salaries will be about $5,000 a year higher at Mizzou or UK than at Truman State, ISU, or Eastern Illinois to cover the difference…then maybe. I doubt that’s the case. Being debt-free is a huge piece of freedom. She has more options for graduate school, since she doesn’t have to consider the costs of that in addition to undergrad debt. She could live alone instead of sharing an apartment with roommates. She can sock the money away for retirement or for a down payment or a rainy day. She can buy a better car!
As someone who turned down better undergraduate options for less debt, I don’t regret it for a second. Truman State actually looks like a pretty good school - middle 50% SAT scores between 1130 and 1370 (CR + M), 49% of students in the top 10% of their high school class (and 80% in the top quarter), 64% of students had a 3.75 or higher in high school (and 82% had a 3.5 or higher). A quick perusal of the Truman State accounting website shows that they have very high pass rates on accounting exams; their students go onto the Big Four firms but also great firms in their own local area; and their students get master’s in accountancy at all kinds of top schools. I think that would be your best bet.
Illinois State also looks okay, but Truman is a better school for the same price. Eastern Illinois will save you even more money, but its stats and environment seem far below Truman State and Illinois State.
Thank you all again for all your helpful information! You are giving us a lot to think about.
A couple more questions from above posts: Someone said Truman State is “more LAC-ish in feel” what does LAC stand for?
Also juillet, all of the stats about Truman State vs Eastern and Illinois State - where do you find those type of stats? I think that is just what I’m looking for.
The main distinction is that most classes, even at the frosh-soph level, are smaller faculty led classes, as opposed to large faculty-led lectures with TA-led smaller discussions. However, the selection of junior-senior level courses may be less extensive compared to a large university. LACs generally tend to be small, although Truman State is on the larger side for a LAC.
LACs also usually have greater emphasis on liberal arts subjects, but some do offer some overtly pre-professional majors (like engineering or business), or have a pre-professional flavor in some of their liberal arts majors (e.g. offering business or accounting type courses in their economics departments).
CPAs, particularly those with business and management savvy, working for major accounting firms or in finance do quite well. 6-digit salaries are likely. Intern jobs are key to entry into the better corporate environments. And a degree from Univ. of Illinois UB would open doors nationally for students who have good grades and references. The other college options that your daughter has are regional in nature and less likely to interest national accounting/finance firms.
So the answer to your question is that it depends on how talented, motivated and successful your daughter is likely to be in her major. Thinking positively that she will do extremely well then Univ. of Illinois is the way to go. In the grand scheme of things 70K in loans for a 4 year degree is not as bad as many of the posters who responded claim. With some on campus part time jobs, summer jobs, intern positions, and some level of frugality your daughter should be able to bring that figure down to 50K. With a good job, and some level of frugality after graduation, she should be able to pay that off in 5 years.
Liberal Arts colleges is also sort of a philosophy of learning where students are broadly well educated in literature, language and the math and sciences. Then you major in a specific area. The teaching is meant to impart strong communication and critical thinking skills for life, a way of preparing life long learners. Harvard and Yale, for instance are liberal arts colleges in the undergraduate school. http://www.aacu.org/leap/what-is-a-liberal-education
However, different LACs have very different policies on how much they ensure that students get a broad education. For example, Amherst and Evergreen State have no general education requirements, and several other LACs like Grinnell and Hamilton just want students to not take too many of their courses in one department. But others, like Harvey Mudd and UNC Asheville, have extensive general education requirements. This is not unlike the variation among research universities.
I have seen accounting majors do quite well, but while I have seen UofI accounting majors do well, I have also seen Truman St. accounting majors do well (and the accounting major I know of who has done best went to one of the least selective public flagships in this country). If the Big4 recruit at Truman St. (and it seems like they do), I don’t see the point of going 70K in debt. If jobs, internships, and frugality can knock off $20K at UofI, she can save $20K at Truman as well.
Something some people on this thread may not know is that Truman now is the only public in MO authorized to engage in selective admissions.
If your daughter is talented and motivated, frankly, she won’t need the UofI brand in accounting to succeed.
It appears that Missouri’s public colleges and universities choose which level of baseline selectivity they use: http://dhe.mo.gov/policies/admissions-selectivity.php
Truman State is the only one currently in the “highly selective” category. The other categories are “selective” (University of Missouri’s three campuses, Missouri State, and Missouri University of Science and Technology), “moderately selective” (four of the “directional” universities), and “open enrollment” (community colleges and some four year schools).
Well, it’s not “her decision” if you have to cosign those loans…which you would have to do. Sallie Mae hasn’t allowed kids to borrow w/o cosigners for years…at least not more than tiny amounts.
Either way, $70k in debt is CRAZY…even if it were an ivy that would be tooooo much, which UIUCis NOT.
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Eastern Illinois - would graduate with about $30,000 to her name after scholarships and our money
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What does that mean “$30k to her name”? $30k left in her college fund? or $30k in debt?
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UK and Mizzou - would graduate with about $30,000 student loans after scholarships and our money
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that is about the most she should have.
And, if she’s going to sit for the CPA exam, she may need a 5th year of schooling…has that been figured as well???
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U of I - Urbana/Champaign and Bradley - would graduate with about $70,000 student loans
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Again crazy…and no parent should even be considering burdening their child with that sort of debt. You’re the adult. She’s a 17/18 year old that has NO IDEA how that much debt would RUIN her young adult life.
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In theory, yes, but you have to co-sign those loans. If she is unable to pay them for any reason - let’s say, she can’t get a job right out of college, or gets laid off, of has trouble keeping up - you are on the hook to repay them. Besides, $70K is just way too much. Under standard repayment, that’s about $800/month in student loans. The average salary for a recent college graduate with an accounting degree seems to be about $45-55,000 a year; $800/month is WAY too much money to repay on that salary. I make about $50,000 now in a low cost of living area, and I couldn’t repay $800/month in loans
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Yes, Sallie Mae “wised up” about 10 years ago after so MANY students defaulted on their student loans. It was crazy to let 17/18 year olds think that they could borrow whatever was still needed. Those kids lives are ruined just because some adults thought that offering SM loans without cosigners was being “helpful”. ugh.
Young people think…hmmmm, I’m going to be earning $45k (or whatever) after I graduate, so I can easily spend $10k per year (or more!) paying back loans. I’ll still have $35k to live on! yay! "
Ugh…not yay. These kids don’t know that as single workers they’re going to get hit hard with taxes, also pay FICA, and health insurance…and rent, utilities, car, car insurance, gas, food, cable, cell phone, clothes, and entertainment.
It is, though, rather rural (if that plays a role).