Depression, Alcohol, Drugs, Failing, HELP!!!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>If there is a college fund, spend it on treatment. Your no-excuses attitude, combined with treatment for her–residential at first, then out-patient treatment, is correct, imo. She needs meds. She probably does not have straight depression. From your description, it sounds like classic bipolar disorder. Without meds, therapy is pointless. Her brain is not functioning correctly, so the medications are essential. </p>

<p>You are lucky that she is begging for treatment. Many mentally ill people refuse treatment. Give her treatment. And contact NAMI immediately. Good luck to you. It’s not easy, but with your tough love, and her desire to get better, she will. But, it’s expensive. A good treatment center will expect tough love on your part. Thinking that the majority of this can be paid for with insurance is a fantasy. Even with the best plan, most of this will be out of pocket. </p>

<p>She will thank you later, and your relationship will be better than ever, eventually.</p>

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<p>I admit it is a while since we had to use those services, but both hospitalizations and treatment programs in our extended family was covered by insurance.</p>

<p>Also didn’t this pass?</p>

<p>

[Mental</a> Health Gets Equal Insurance Coverage | Health | Change.org](<a href=“The World’s Platform for Change · Change.org”>The World’s Platform for Change · Change.org)</p>

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<p>^^^^Yeah, well, theoretically. We have the best possible coverage, and yes, mental health hospitalization is covered. They will pay until the patient is “stable.” Your idea of stable and the insurance company’s idea are two entirely different things. Stable to them is not actively talking about suicide, not actively running around naked, seeing delusions, hearing things. It does not mean, yes, the patient understands the need for meds, and that the medication levels are correct. As far as rehab for drugs/alcohol is concerned, the facilities your insurance is willing to pay for will have a waitlist, and you may or not be able to safely wait the multiple weeks for a bed. As far as publicly paid residential or out-patient treatment is concerned, most people who have insurance will be ineligible. You have to have the person be broke, and apply for public assistance/medicare-type coverage (medicaid in Calif)–that can take weeks or more likely, months.</p>

<p>The biggest problem is the definition of “stable.” Good luck to the OP and anyone else in this situation. There is light at the end of the tunnel, but it takes a tough attitude (that the OP seems to have) and $$$ above and beyond insurance coverage, in most cases.</p>

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<p>"They will pay until the patient is “stable.” Your idea of stable and the insurance company’s idea are two entirely different things. Stable to them is not actively talking about suicide, not actively running around naked, seeing delusions, hearing things.</p>

<p>^^ ^ Very true, and I’m not sure running around naked would be sufficient for hospitalization. Programs FULLY covered by insurance (ie: in-network provicers) will have a wait list. Many “private” programs will not accept insurance, meaning they will look to the patient family for payment - - but most these facilities will complete the insurance forms so that the family can be receive the insurance payment. </p>

<p>Most voluntary hospitalization programs run for 28 days and are very expensive ($25K?). Then there are residential programs that offere intensive out-patient therapy (IOP) where residents start with almost a full-day of treatment and gradually “step down” (less treatment with a part-time job or taking classes part-time; cost $8-18K/month for the IOP and about $6-10K after the patient/resident “steps down”). The residential IOP programs are the programs like Betty Ford and Hazelden; stays of 3-6 months common and many residents/patients end up re-locating to the area (a lot of the young adult patients/residents at Hazelden stay end up qualifying for in-state tuition at Univ Minn).</p>

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<p>This is based on staying on ‘in network’ services which are not going to cover the services that may be needed. More likely a 72 hour hold at a public hospital as posters above stated. Go ‘off the reservation’ for long term care, and this clause no longer matters, even for those with federal insurance. Even they can get around paying for what they pass into law. It is very, very wrong.</p>

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<p>Insurance does not usually cover treatment facilities unless you have some remarkable coverage.</p>

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<p>I don’t think so much of inpatient hospitalization anyway- I have been hospitalized twice and while one hospital * was * better than the other, the main purpose IMO was to convince me/others that I was ill. ( The first hospitalization was simply a waste of time- never need medical care suoerbowl Sunday.)</p>

<p>If she can get diagnosed, possibly get into a respite facility if her family doesn’t feel they can provide what she needs, she may be able to turn her downward spiral around and have a productive life. :)</p>

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<p>Good luck to ScaredDad’s daughter–she’ll need it, because she has one self-absorbed father who refers to her as a “psycho daughter” and expresses not an iota of concern about her pain or her future. It’s all me, me, me. He has to “fake” being “nice dad”. His “utopia” is being spoiled. He had to spend a whole bunch of time looking into treatment options, tsk, tsk. He hasn’t exhibited any of the normal heartbreak one would expect of a parent whose child attempted suicide and was raped. I think he posted here hoping a chorus of “tough love” voices would urge him to just throw her out, which he clearly wants to do. Hey, it’s the no-cost, no-effort, utopia-preserving option! OP needs some counseling himself so he can learn to be a father to this girl.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^
That seems really harsh.</p>

<p>This man is in a very tough position, and he’s struggling to figure out what to do for his daughter and for his whole family. I don’t see that he’s done anything wrong.</p>

<p>These depression/rage/addiction problems are super hard. There are no clear answers in these situations.</p>

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<p>That seems really harsh.</p>

<p>Reality is oftentimes.</p>

<p>WHen you choose to be a parent- you don’t get to choose to stick around only for the fun stuff</p>

<p>I’m not willing to sacrifice my utopia that includes the babies (all under 9) and my wife to ATTEMPT to fix her problems. I will not put up with much if she starts screwing up as she comes home.</p>

<p>These issues began years ago- and had to get this big for dad to notice.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the comments and I mean all of the comments!! Maybe I should have put a little more thought into the posts before hitting post/reply? I didn’t think each sentence would be dissecting word for word…</p>

<p>Just to answer some random points that some posters brought up. I refer to the younger children as my babies alway have. They are 8 or more years younger than the oldest, so yes they are the babies. The oldest and I have always been super close. She will alway be my big girl and imagine our relationship will always be a little different because of the age gap, her being my first child, etc etc.</p>

<p>The grandmother being so young is because the grandfather married someone 20yrs his junior after his divorc. She is a recent member of the family the last 13 years.</p>

<p>As far as “psychobabble” that was in regards to my wife and I specifically! If the pressures become to much to bear I’m sure we will go both of us feel okay now and lean on each other as we always have. We are closer now than ever even after 20yrs together. Of course people who are sick do need therapy and I do think my daughter needs it after talking to the people who have treated her the last week. After everything she has been through with the rape she definitely needs help for that no matter what. Mental health is hard to diagnose it’s not like a broken leg it’s not nearly as finite. There is a lot of debate in the field no one can deny that…part of the reason why mental health benefits can be so complicated.</p>

<p>Someone brought up “Utopia” that’s what I call it! I’m sorry it offended some here. Our home life is better than ever! Awesome schedules, all the kids are involved in what they want to be, violin, gymnastics, choir, and the boy football…no mare karate he just didn’t get into it. I’ll stick to my guns that if my 18yr old starts coming home drunk, sneaking out, lieing etc I do not want her around her younger siblings it’s as simple as that. I don’t see how that is being unfair?</p>

<p>I agree problems did start years ago, but how do you know? When they are getting 3.3-3.5gpa doing well, involved, they have friends, and we hung out constantly how do you know? She never said she was depressed. It wasn’t until she was 16-16.5 that the moodiness started to show up, but again, she started liking boys and all of the aforementioned was going strong we figured it was the boys. We started to believe she was depressed when she was 17 and she did see a therapist for 3 months like I said we didn’t see much a difference, but my daughter said it helped we took her word for it. She was always described as “She is so well spoken, ya’ll are so lucky, what a great teen etc etc” </p>

<p>It’s easy to play armchair quarterback trust when I say there was no obvious signs of a problem. I have run down the last two years and especially the last 9 months through my head 100 times. “I should have kept in therapy and made her go longer” “I should have sent her to a psychiatrist…I should have pried more” The bottom line is it’s all water under the bridge now I can only try to help going forward.</p>

<p>I can’t express the lies and how far reaching they are. My daughter hides and has hid for a long time. Every day we are finding out more and more some little and some big. The only way I can explain it is it’s like finding out your spouse has been gambling, cheating, sexting, lieing, flirting, and throwing you under the bus for a year without you knowing and you slowly are starting to find things things out. It hurt alot! Your daughter looking at you in your eyes crying needed “something” then you find out it was just a lie…hurts. It’s like the last 9 months was fake it’s hard to swallow.</p>

<p>Time for the good!! The meeting last night went well…my daughter and I cried our eyes out. She was exactly how she used to be “on the outside” we laughed, joked, cried, it was good. She shared alot how “All she wanted was for me to be there for her” “She knew she ruined the relationship and was mad at herself for letting it happen” “I’ll do anything to get us back to the way we were” again it was great. We hugged and cried so much it felt like old times.</p>

<p>She was discharged today and she will be entering a 14-28 day residential program ASAP. We are trying our best to exercise every option available to help her. She is excited about this which is good.</p>

<p>We’ll see how it goes she is sleeping right now as we just got home from getting most of her things out of the dorm :-)</p>

<p>Now for the bad: She’s already lied since yesterday!! I haven’t and will not be calling her out on it because we only have her for a day/two before she leaves for one of two residential rehabs we’ll know tom. which one.</p>

<p>While my daughter seems to be the same ole loving, laughing, let’s hang “Dad” daughter, she is not. After talking with her social worker today (daughter signed a hippa release) he said “Her stories change regularly. One minute she is talking about how great her relationship was with you, how much she loves her siblings, and her mom. The next she is saying how her siblings aggravated her and she didn’t want to be bothered, how she didn’t understand why her car was taken away, that she didn’t really care what her mom thought of her only what you though, but that now you hate her”</p>

<p>He said she shows a need for others to sympathize with her story when in group, hasn’t accepted much responsibility for her actions, and he questions her honesty because her stories change.</p>

<p>We’ll see! It’s hard to see you daughter change so fast. “Dad I need to go outside and smoke!” Really, is all I can think in my head in this day and age. Not once has she mentioned that she wants to stop drinking or doing drugs I’m just assuming she wants to. It almost seems like its a game. She was talking to one of there friends on the phone “yeah, I’m out now…thank gosh! Can you believe we had homework to do every night…yeah in rehab” “Well, my parents are putting me in a inpatient program so that should be cool! No, not the one in Florida…I know that sucks I was hoping to go to the beach”</p>

<p>We’ll see I don’t what else to say now I’m rambling as is.</p>

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<p>ScaredDad—I am so sorry that you are going through all of this with your daughter. She really sounds like she needs this help and right now the best place would be in-patient so she could get all the support she needs during this crisis. Is this a facility that will diagnosis her and treat for drug/alcohol abuse? As I said, much of your post sounded familar, and your frustration is normal. It is hard to believe that as parents our own children could make us say the things we do. I found myself saying things I would never in a million years say but the lies, manipulation and pain that an ill child spews forth is destructive to everything that was good. I hope you hang in there and go to therapy with your wife so that the two of you can heal from this mess and learn how to reconnect with your daughter in a more effective way than you are right this minute. It is not healthy to any one when the dad and mom start to lose perspective of the fact that this is an illness. Your daughter needs you to be strong and loving so you don’t buy into the bull%#^% anymore. </p>

<p>I can also understand why you don’t want your oldest daughter to be around the little ones in her current mood and acting the way she is but she has just gone through a horrible trauma. There has to be some way that she has your 100% support without her siblings being affected by the the nastiness that is going on in the house. Maybe once she is in the treatment facility things will become clearer. </p>

<p>I am sorry to have made assumptions about you and your wife but it is hard to get an accurate read of things based on a few sentences. Your recent post clarified some points and I can understand what this is doing to your home life. Mental illness can and does hurt the whole family. My husband and I have our daughter living with us and there are times that I know I would rather see her on her own but the reality of that is another thing. It is a hurt beyond any hurt when your child is sick, so right now it would be in your daughters best interest to recognize that she is sick. When we have our kids we dream of their life unfolding like a beautiful ballet. As parents we want to see our kids lives be so wonderful and full, so the shock of a mental illness in which there are no physical or medical signs creeps up on us until all we could see is the path of destruction. </p>

<p>You sound strong even if you are angry and sad. That strength will get you through this with your daughter. I am sending my best wishes to your daughter and your family, and may the road ahead be smoother.</p>

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<p>MommaJ, that was cold, and way off base. When the OP goes to counseling, they will tell him to continue to use tough love: as scary as it is, until the daughter feels the consequences of her actions, she won’t “hit bottom” and she won’t stay in treatment. Dealing with a mood disorder is similar to dealing with addiction–and often the two go hand in hand (dual diagnosis), which is likely to be the case here. I hope the OP ignores your comments–if he caves now, it will be his daughter’s loss. You have no idea what you are talking about!</p>

<p>ScaredDad, best wishes to you and your daughter.</p>

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<p>“Tough love” is not a substitute for accurate diagnosis and treatment and the structure of a loving family.</p>

<p>

[The</a> Trouble With Tough Love - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062.html]The”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062.html)</p>

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<p>This is not unfair. You and your family have every right to live the way you want to live in your home. She is 18 years old now. You can set house rules and if they are broken, you can decide what those consequences will be whether that means no cell phone calls for a week or it means letting her know that she can no longer live with you. You can still love her and tell her that she cannot live with you, but those are decisions that only you and your wife can make. Hopefully you and your wife are on the same page with those decisions. You can detach with love. Again, I would highly recommend going to Alanon. Best of luck to you and your family.</p>

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<p>Depression to the point of hospitalization, rape, a mother who isn’t old enough to be her mother, a father who idealizes his " other" children… I would be surprised if she *didn’t *act out.</p>

<p>Getting her father angry at her is a way to get him to pay attention.
I wonder how much positive attention she has gotten over the last 5 years.</p>

<p>She needs firm consistent rules and structure but not to be shut out of her family.</p>

<p>[INTERVENE:</a> A Community for Parents - Part 2](<a href=“http://intervene.drugfree.org/page/2/]INTERVENE:”>http://intervene.drugfree.org/page/2/)</p>

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<p>No where does he say she has a “young mother.” He says they have been married 20 years, so how young can she be???
He did say she has a “young step grandmother” due to the grandfather remarrying young!</p>

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<p>I guess I didn’t see the grandfather remarrying, I only saw a reference to the grandmother being more the age of a mother. :o</p>

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<p>soprano is right…You just don’t know unless you have been there. It is a hard road and I wish the OP all the best for his daughter recovery and good health.</p>

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<p>Addiction is a family disease, meaning that the addict tends to “infect” those who care for him/her, to the point where they also display the same self-centered “victim” behavior of the addict. We therefore can have compassion for a father who is making an honest effort to break this cycle of pain, even if – as he himself acknowledges – he may have been part of the problem. </p>

<p>We therefore should not blame the father for his daughter’s illness. In the words of Al-anon’s “three c’s,” he didn’t cause it, he can’t cure it, he can’t control it.</p>

<p>Also, there is a difference between a “tough love” that refuses to participate in a loved one’s self-destruction, and the “beatings, sleep deprivation, use of stress positions, emotional abuse and public humiliation” described in the Washington Post article.</p>