<p>Yup, Yup YUP. What arabrab said! He/she said exactly what I said in posts 114 and 117 but more directly and to the point.</p>
<p>OP - It sounds like you have a tough situation and not much local support system. Please try hard to accept ANY help offered this week (help with your daughter, carpooling for the other kids, whatever). </p>
<p>Also ask for favors. You can give specific reason or just a general “this is a difficult complicated week” reason. You may be surprised how much neighborly kindness is out there. Good luck!</p>
<p>Will do we will be filing a complaint tom. the wife is talking to attorney friend just to make sure she does it correctly. There will be no lawsuit I think that’s half the problem with America right now, but that is a different topic altogether. Hope some successes are found down that road.</p>
<p>Back to question answering:</p>
<p>Daughter did not pick the rehab it came highly recommended by her previous therapist, previous IOP, and a coworker who’s daughter went there. I won’t say she didn’t like the idea though beach vs city!</p>
<p>I’m going strictly by advice, so I can’t say what programs are good or bad. I can say if you are willing to get wasted with two boys while in rehab that says something besides the lack of supervision. Regardless of the “problem” it still was a choice. Text book as she is she “apologized” “I want to make sure you and mom will be their for me” “I do like it here and was making progress I think”</p>
<p>Her actions, violations, and therapist all say otherwise. Many times in the conversation tonight the therapist would chime in “It is a choice” “Do you see how serious this is” “Do you realize you could die?” my daughters response is still not broken and serious imo.</p>
<p>Jym, I read about 1/2 of that book. It is pretty good and she does fit the bill on many fronts. Like most mental health diagnosis it still doesn’t mean it couldn’t take 20 years to get it right. There is so much debate and opinion it almost seems like luck of the draw…</p>
<p>Also Jym, you hit on one point “she has a responsibility to work on her problem” that is what my wife and I cling to. There isn’t some magic puppet making her do these things they are choices. 3 months ago when she lived at home she was normal chores, babysit for datenight, clean you room, be home at 2am, worked 20hrs a week, went on retreats, went on family vacation…normal stuff.</p>
<p>Now in 2 months she’s a chain smoking, habitual liar, who drinks to excess everytime, while smoking bowls, blowing more money then she made in the previous 3 months in 3 weeks, and going crazy. So, Jym yes, the wife, friends, family have this “Who are you look?” While crying today with the wife she even laughed and said that she must have a tumor in her brain cause she isn’t the daughter I knew over the summer she’s crazy!"</p>
<p>Mental health and addiction seem so infinte vs the finite world of “cut and paste” medicine still so hard to relate. I still can’t get beyond the choice…!</p>
<p>ScaredDad – illness is like that. You’ve probably had parents or relatives who’ve had a stroke or a heart attack. It doesn’t matter how they were even a week before that event – once it happens, you have to deal with the reality of what is. Comparing your daughter to “how she was two months ago” is not likely to be productive. Two months ago the disease(s) (whatever they are) had not manifested, or were at a level that wasn’t easy to notice. I’m worried that if you don’t let go of the “only two months ago” concept that it will be even harder for you to deal with the reality you have.</p>
<p>And there are a lot of diseases that are not easy to pin down, and has been mentioned before, untangling myriad symptoms will probably take some time. There’s no blood test that gives you a definitive answer, but that doesn’t mean answers won’t be available. But remember – there are lots and lots of diseases that are also challenging to diagnose, including most of the auto-immune diseases. While everyone would love to find an answer – and a remedy – immediately, it simply is not likely to happen.</p>
<p>I’d also suggest that she probably has much less control over her impulses than you might think she does, at least at this point. She may well be repulsed by what she’s done at some point in the future, but at the moment her brain is not providing an adult-level of impulse control. In a similar way, I’ve seen people who have had strokes say things that would have never, ever come out of their mouths before the stroke. I don’t blame them, because it is a product of their disease, not a failure of will. </p>
<p>I really hope you and your wife can get some local support for the two of you – this is a very tough roller coaster to be on, and it is really, really helpful to connect with some folks locally who’ve been there before.</p>
<p>OP, if your young ones are in school, I would give their teachers and/or the school counselor a heads-up on what is happening at home. The kids may need a safe person to talk to, or a teacher can just let them know someone (in addition to mom and dad) cares. Not that the kids may ever use that outlet – but knowing it is there can provide comfort in the face of conflicts they aren’t old enough to fully understand. The younger ones also need to know the tension in the family is not their fault. How YOU handle things will guide your younger children in how to deal with the tumult.</p>
<p>I’m not saying you should file a lawsuit – it’s just that that kind of irresponsibility on the part of the hospital is inexcusable and actionable, and they are darned lucky noone died or was seriously injured.</p>
<p>arabrab – that is a terrific list. Good info to know.</p>
<p>Here’s a good summary of the (general) appeals process with your insurer. If you appeal before D is discharged – and notify everyone of the appeal – discharge should be automatically delayed until they’ve made a decision on the appeal. If you let the discharge go forward, you’ve got an uphill climb to get her back into care.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.masslegalhelp.org/mental-health/private-appeal[/url]”>http://www.masslegalhelp.org/mental-health/private-appeal</a></p>
<p>If you have your myuhc account, you should be able to pull up the United Behavioral Health appeals process; alternatively, you may have a paper booklet given at open enrollment time that has this info. Very, very important that you fax the appeal to the correct place. You do NOT need the hospital’s concurrence, and I wouldn’t wait to try and get it.</p>
<p>The hospital should also have an Ombudsman, who might be helpful. You’re in somewhat of a race against time – I’d pursue multiple avenues.</p>
<p>In addition to the wonderful advice provided by arabrab above, I would also recommend, if you work for an employer with an HR Department on site, that you get them involved IMMEDIATELY as well. Add them to the “pursue multiple avenues” and let them know you have not been provided with the service you expect/need. Don’t waste your time with the benefits dept- they won’t help, but HR can go to the plan administrator and see if they can make a few calls. This is not the first thing to do-- what arabrab said is the first thing. Here is a a few link to UBH appeals processes. I agree-- the goal is to NOT let them discharge her. She should stay at the facility or get her transferred to a MH facility.
<a href=“https://www.ubhonline.com/html/guidelines/networkManual/pdfUsbhpc/usbhpcAppealsDisputeResolution.pdf[/url]”>https://www.ubhonline.com/html/guidelines/networkManual/pdfUsbhpc/usbhpcAppealsDisputeResolution.pdf</a> Ask for an expedited review and independent medical review ASAP. Be sure they know about the adverse incident with the Alcohol overdose and ER treatment. Good luck!</p>
<p>I think that all the posters who want to jump on the bipolar diagnosis need to step back a minute. I was SURE that my daughter, who had also been raped in high school was bipolar. She had been the beauty queen straight A hyperachiever until she was raped…and then she continued to hold onto her rapist as a boyfriend…started drinking, using drugs, developed an eating disorder, posed for playboy, got tatted and pierced…several suicide attempts…We about lost our mind. Once she got her 5’6" body down to about 85 pounds, she was admitted to inpatient treatment (all out of pocket) for her eating disorder. It was an amazing program. Great therapist, terrific psychiatric care, medical supervision, dance and art therapy, equine therapy…great stuff. It had a very strong spiritual component as well. It did not “cure” her, but it took her out of her “environment” for three months and let her body begin to heal. One of the things her therapist and psychiatric doctor determined was that her “perfectionist” tendencies made her think in terms of black and white. You are either “good” or “bad”. If you were good, you were ALL good. If you were bad, you were All bad. So clearly, since she had had sex, well, she was no longer good. So she was “bad”. And she did every bad thing she could think of. She made some amazing friends in therapy. These were ALL amazing and smart girls. Many of their therapists had gone through similar periods of darkness in their lives. I do not know if you are religious or not Scareddad, but to be honest, there is a LOT of evidence that therapy that INCLUDES a spiritual component is more successful than those that do not. But that’s an aside. We continued to peel back layers…learned that our daughter is NOT bipolar, but had a mood disorder that they treated for awhile…continued to allow us to peel back layers…learned she is ADHD. Kids with out of control ADHD do not know what to do with their thoughts. The biggest change in her life was the addition of ADHD medication. We really should have caught this sooner, but high functioning kids with ADHD mask it so well. She was probably the smartest girl in her class. We didn’t think anything was wrong, but there were always subtle hints…she would get hyperfrustrated. She couldn’t stand distractions. This story has a happy ending. Family therapy has taught us a lot about how to talk to one another. My daughter knows that we will NEVER abandon her, and she doesn’t try to push us away anymore. Often that’s another attempt to see how “bad” she is. Is she too unlovable for her parents to love her? No, she’s not. And as a Christian, she also knows that she can’t be too bad for Christ’s love, either. So where is she now? She is attending college locally (we can’t afford anything else 
Her treatment has cost over 100K She has straight A’s after a couple of semesters. She thinks might transfer to a more highly ranked program after she finishes her AS degree in community college…which has actually ALSO been good for her. She is a doctor’s kid from affluent suburbs. CC has brought her into contact with lots of different people and has taught her new perspectives. She might become a therapist…or maybe a doctor like her beloved daddy. And because of where she has walked, she will understand the road of those who who are stuck on that road.<br>
Diagnosing a mental health condition can take a lot of time when it is being masked by drugs and alcohol and in our daughters case, an Eating Disorder. It took us 3 years. My husband says it took years off of his life. Perhaps. Mine too, probably. But we now have a bond that is unbreakable. It has been torn, restapled, broken, superglued, cracked and remended so many times. She was worth it. Your daughter is worth it.</p>
<p>debrockman…Thankyou for sharing that story… Kids who are in trouble need us more when they are at their lowest, meanest, and ugliest, and yes it does take alot to get them through, but the alternative is not a thought that we could imagine. I hope the OP hears you.</p>
<p>To the OP, it can take years for some people to break through denial and accept treatment. Giving her “one chance” won’t work well.</p>
<p>An alcohol overdose would be evidence of self-harm, and it might get her two weeks in a mental health facility. That’s about all that is provided these days, under insurance.</p>
<p>There are incidents like this all the time at rehabs. I doubt it would be possible to sue, or even formally complain.</p>
<p>A rapid deterioration like this does suggest some kind of “psychotic break” of some kind, or it could be a response to trauma.</p>
<p>This Dad’s attitude continues to be troubling. I think the daughter should stay somewhere else. Sometimes there are people from AA in the community who will put a young person up and help guide them. </p>
<p>I worked at a shelter a long time ago. Our director had a sign on his desk, “Alcoholism is a wound to be healed, not a sin to be forgiven.” That could be applied to a lot of situations.</p>
<p>The Dad sounds like a stressed parent trying to find a path best for all in his family. </p>
<p>There have been other similar threads, but no innovative ideas like people in AA willing to take in troubled teens… it sounds like a neat idea if feasible.</p>
<p>colorado mom. I agree. I won’t jump on this Dad. He obviously cares…a lot. Dad…keep doing your best. None of us is walking in your shoes. My prayers and my heart go to you and your family.</p>
<p>ScaredDad…Is just what his name implies…scared. Hang in there, and get enough sleep.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating how damaging a rape can be. This could have triggered all of these problems, although the unfortunate part is that substance addiction can take on a life of its own even after one heals from the rape. I’m not an expert in this area, but I’ve heard that people are usually depressed for a couple of years at least after a rape and usually there are failing grades and sometimes substance addiction.</p>
<p>Also, the effect of therapy depends greatly on the skill and intelligence of the therapist. If you think it sounds like psycho-babble, then you might consider switching therapists.</p>
<p>Lastly, depression is not a choice.</p>
<p>Thanks for the PM’s and replies we have talked to her the last two days and used every second of the 10 minutes we have been given. Had a good weekend with the rest of the family roasting marshmellows, eating some great food, and just hanging out at a family get together last night. Today is just chill with the kids day, going to church, and getting ready for the upcoming week.</p>
<p>Just like last week the rehab is saying she will be discharged on Tuesday. We are expecting that to happen even if it doesn’t we want to be prepared. We have many people in the waiting for her to see: Two rape counselors, her old therapist, a IOP clinic, and appts. with two psychiartrists and all came highly recommended.</p>
<p>We are still reading, praying, thinking, and asking for advice constantly. The scary thing (as many of you point out so well) is how long this could really take. Our face to face advice much like this thread has been all over the map.</p>
<p>My wife has spoken with 3 recovering addicts one as young as 23 the other two over 40 and the advice they give is vastly different than the advice I am getting from people. Last night my wife and her sister even discussed something we all forgot about or at least the details of it. When she went off the deep end using, partying, jail, etc and asked her dad to come home her dad (my father in law) said “NO, I have changed the locks you are not welcome here!” Of course there was more to the story/discussion, but that was the end result. Sister in law squatted on the streets for awhile (3-4 weeks) and then her words “I couldn’t believe where I was at! I was just so sick of it, so sick of being down and out, and didn’t want to live this way anymore.”</p>
<p>She joined the military and her words “it kicked my ass straight” she is now a teacher, mother of two, married, with a BS in Comp. Science and a MS in Special Ed.</p>
<p>All of the advice my wife is getting from recovering addicts is “You have to be sick of your situation, you have to hate it enough that you want to change, if you don’t hate your situation it’s hard to stop or be convinced to stop, you can’t keep enabling and always help her when she stumbles”</p>
<p>The 23yr old’s input was “I remember the last time I called them from jail and said I needed bail money this was the 3rd time and I had run out of escuses. My dad/mom said “NO” and I realized how much I had screwed up. I knew they loved me, but I kept lieing to them (of course at the time I was ****ed now I see it was best), still with my drughead boyfriend who I swore up and down I wouldn’t see anymore, and I was so mad at myself for letting my life get like this”. There was alot more to this story too but… she ended up going to rehab for 1 month and has been clean for 15 months now. She is rebuilding her relationship with her parents and she highly recommends this tough love approach. She knows our daughter and said “When has she ever had to struggle? She hasn’t! You guys have always provided”</p>
<p>My advice has been on the other side of the line…“Giving her every opportunity for success” “Could you handle it if you did tell her she was no longer welcome and she did end up in jail or worse” “You have to be there for her she is scared too”</p>
<p>I say all of this just to show the difference in people’s opinions are on our situation and how they vary so much. Hopefully the last 23 or so days in rehab made a difference, hopefully she is sick to her stomach and wants a different life, hopefully she looks back to the way it was with affinity and wants that type of life back.</p>
<p>My wife and I are going to do the best we can and get her involved in everything previously mentioned… the counesling, individual therapy, IOP, AA, NA, and seeing pscyh. etc we are in agreement on that front. We are assuming she is willing she says she is and will do anything to stop and turn her life around.</p>
<p>We are still looking into more rehabs that are faith based since my daughter says she was always so happy after retreats she would go on. They were twice a year for two weeks at a time. The wife and I agree she did always seem super happy, fired up, and focused after retreats. Teen challenge keeps getting recommended to us and my daughter agreed to do that. I’m the only hold out on that front because the rehab is 1 year long and that is a long long time! If she wants it I’ll do whatever I have to do to make it happen…</p>
<p>We haven’t come up with a plan if any of the following happens…“What do we do if she uses while at home” “Endangers her siblings” “Steals or the like?”</p>
<p>Our conversations with her have gone as well as they can. We are all hoping for a good week with her home if she is discharged.</p>
<p>I hope that the week goes well whether she’s home or not. It sounds like a faith-based rehab might be a good fit for her, and I hope you’re able to find one that works for your family.</p>
<p>Best of luck…hang in there.</p>
<p>I’m joining this dicussion a bit late (better than never, I hope), and have seen a lot of helpful advice. </p>
<p>As much as everyone is hopeful that your daughter starts to make progress, I’m not seeing the first step (acknowledgement of problem) that is necessary for the patient to help herself (or at least truly accept help from others on their terms). Regardless of the diagnosis (bi-polar, borderline personality, etc.), ultimately the patient must accept that s/he must acccept that s/he is not in control and accept the help as it is given and be consistently honest in that assessment.</p>
<p>Sorry to be blunt, but I’m not seeing it at all. The thought that the facility must be of a certain lifestyle (on the beach or whatever) screams, “I’m here to let someone else fix the problems they see with me while I continue to do what I do.”</p>
<p>I’m afraid you are on yet another wash, rinse, repeat cycle.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, there may be a time when she is truly ready for treatment, but right now she sees treatment as the path to reintegrating her to the enabling environment (getting right with the family, going back to the same college town where she found trouble, etc.). When will she be ready? None of us truly know, but when she talks about wanting to fix herself and figure out why she is messing herself over (as opposed to messing up in society), she is getting close. If bi-polar is the issue, there are times between the mania and the dropoff where that perception of their problem may come to light.</p>
<p>Now having a bi-polar and autistic son, I’ve come to understand that he does not have the introspection skill (part of his autism) that is necessary to truly understand his bi-polar swings or even discuss it effectively with professional help. Unless she never has had the ability to be introspective, she can overcome her issues. It is a matter of being ready when she is ready.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I agree with you that she does not belong in your home. She is negatively affecting those in the home (your babies and the 2 of you), but more importantly, she is hiding from herself in the fake relationship she can construct under your roof. The suggestions for finding a minimal existence shelter for people with mental issues through your local NAMI, is good advice. Yes, it will probably function much like a homeless shelter. Yes, she will run with the crowd like her that hasn’t figured out they need to subject themselves to the program to get better, but as long as you visit frequently (at her place, don’t bring her home), this is probably the most cost-effective (seeing that you are not made of money) holding strategy until she hits bottom. </p>
<p>Yes, there is a risk that she may never hit bottom because something in her mental makeup doesn’t allow her to see (after many cycles) that the problem is within her (not those around her). However, there is no way to make someone look in the mirror and see the problem they have.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with paying for additional counseling/medical management help while she is away in a minimal state, if it isn’t being used as the entre back to family life.</p>
<p>Goaliedad offers very wise advise. Very wise, very insightful. Thank you for your post.</p>
<p>Goliedad…Much of what you have said seems to be true in that the OP’s daughter is not recognizing her role in what has put her in the place she is in. However, this girl has just started to exhibit these signs within the past few weeks of being out on her own, and the most tramatic event that has occurred is the rape. The OP has said that he had a wonderful relationship with his daughter until she left home so there are issues stated that do not make alot of sense…the father seems to be losing patience quickly and is hoping for a quick fix to get her back on path. </p>
<p>If his daughter was raped than the fix may not be so quick and many of her actions now can very well be related to the trauma she has recently suffered. It seems like the rape has somehow been pushed aside and instead there is an opinion that her behavior is bipolar. It is possible that she is bipolar but that does not make the trauma of a rape any less severe. I would think that the rape could be enough to throw an emotionally stable person into some unusal behaviors so if this young woman is in fact bipolar, which has yet to be determined, than she has a long road ahead. I can’t imagine that most parents would put this girl out saying that she needs to sink or swim at a time when trauma has occured.</p>
<p>Is it possible that the father is angry regarding the rape because he feels his daughters behavior was responsible for this horrific act? This young woman needs a very good Dr to diagnose her and a real treatment off of the beach needs to occur. Op description of the daughter requesting the type of facility she wanted to attend was very unusual, and it did portray a young woman that was calling the shots instead of a vunerable tramatized rape victim. However, to consider this very young woman as practically homeless street worthy is sad and goes against most peoples natural instincts as a parent. I do agree that she has not owed her role in any of her problems or the behaviors but there must be another way for this young woman to recognize her role in the mess she is in. </p>
<p>There may be many wash—rinse—repeat cycles but, how do you go from one cycle to out the door without exhausting other means?</p>
<p>momma-three
If you read the OP’s original post, you’ll see these behaviors (acting out, lying, using drugs/alcohol, blowing curfew, etc) began this past summer, at least 4-5 months before the rape and before she was out on her own. Not saying the rape wasn’t traumatic-- just saying it wasn’t the precipitating cause of her behavior changes. And if scareddad just became aware of these behaviors this past summer, I am betting they really began before then, but his dau did a better job of hiding it.</p>