<p>Your relatives are free to believe what they like, of course, but what you’ve stated is not what the church teaches.</p>
<p>The Catechism of the Catholic Church (#2080, #2081) states:
“On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass. . .The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.” </p>
<p>Also, earlier someone asked about places where churches are not available (geographically remote areas, non-Christian countries, for example.) </p>
<p>The Catechism (#2183) states: “If because of lack of a sacred minister, or for other grave cause, participation in the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible, it is specially recommended that the faithful take part in the Liturgy of the Word if it is celebrated in the parish church or in another sacred place according to the prescriptions of the diocesan bishop, or engage in prayer for an appropriate amount of time personally or in a family, as occasion offers, in groups of families.”</p>
<p>Bad weather, distance/lack of transportation can be valid excuses for missing mass.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how a person’s interior state of mind could be known by or disrespectful to other attendants. (I would be happy to know that a doubting or despairing person had made an effort to come to mass. ) A person can never know what spiritual gain MIGHT have come through the mass he/she chose not to attend. Something in the readings or homily or kindness of the parishioners may have inspired him/her.</p>
<p>Sanseref really summed it up the best: I really think I needed to just talk it out and get some feedback before I made this a big issue. And yes, I would agree that all of you are good at providing that! Again, I think the reason I posted in the first place was deep down I think I knew what the reaction from all of you would be – I just needed to hear it.</p>
<p>D is really a great kid overall. So many of the things that other posters said would be things they would require have really never been an issue with us for either her or her brother. She is a great student, hard worker and nice kid just trying to find her own path. I think reading these posts made me appreciate her a little more.</p>
<p>To someone who takes their conscience seriously…whether religious or non, being forced to attend a religious service through coercive means…even if it is in the form of a financial non-entitlement is a gross violation of that conscience and lack of respect of their basic autonomy as adults. </p>
<p>How’d you like it if a family member/neighbor did the same to you by tying help for chores, loans of equipment, and/or critically needed financial loans to giving up your religious conscience for theirs?? Unless you don’t take such matters of conscience seriously, are a doormat, and/or are manipulative/lacking in principles…I’d doubt you’d like it very much. I certainly wouldn’t and would lose whatever respect I had for them. </p>
<p>While some may not take it as seriously, people have fought and willingly died for their right to worship as freely as they choose to…or not. A cursory examination of history within the last millennia alone should be enough to understand that. </p>
<p>Although parents have the right to place strings for their financial support, using that as a means to force someone to worship or even attend a house of worship that they’re not interested in for whatever reason is IMHO a jerkish move that tends to be counterproductive. </p>
<p>Lost count of how many HS and especially undergrad classmates/work colleagues left the faith of their parents because their parents/families attempted this very type of coercion during their adolescent/teen/young adult years. </p>
<p>If the fundie protestant Christian portion of my extended family tried to coerce me to attending church like that on me even as a middle schooler, I’d refuse to attend on principle. </p>
<p>Fortunately…as much as I disagree with their religious views and the socio-political views derived, they’ve had enough common sense to realize that forcing others to worship as you even during adolescence/teen years is ultimately a fool’s errand if the adolescent/teen is independent minded and thus, does not appreciate coercion on matters of conscience. It’s more so the case for young adults.</p>
<p>I’d be willing to do quite a few things–things much more difficult/strenuous/disgusting than sitting through a religious service–for close to $500 an hour. But that’s just me. . .</p>
<p>massmom,
I hope your daughter doesn’t disappoint you…but as you have done in your own life, your daughter may choose a different path in college…and yet you can also understand that she may later return to your desired path on her own.</p>
<p>ato, that’s fine, but the ultimate outcome of that kind of force on most people is that they would turn away from their religion for a very long time. </p>
<p>Ultimately, funding should NEVER be tied to religion IMO. In any way. Too personal.</p>
<p>atomom, if it was just sitting in a room for an hour, it wouldn’t be so important to you that somebody do it. What if somebody’s condition of paying for something was that you not go to church? Would you do it?</p>
<p>I can’t help but notice that atomom and others who think it’s no big deal to be forced to sit through a Mass are deeply attached to their Faith ™ and are True Believers ™. They see nothing wrong with this requirement because they themselves follow that requirement. So naturally they can’t see why we object. </p>
<p>eireann is asking the right question-what if they were required to NOT go to Mass? Of course they’d refuse because of that True Believer ™ thing.</p>
<p>I thought a parent’s love was supposed to be unconditional. I believe once children are adults, they should be free to choose their paths in life: spiritual, sexual, occupational, recreational…
Of course, no parent is obliged to pay for a child’s college education. The OP is perfectly within his or her rights to put conditions on the tuition money. However, if I were the daughter (disclosure, I’m an ex-Catholic) I wouldn’t take the money with all those strings attached. What’s the next step going to be, we’ll pay for your wedding but only if you get married in the church? We’ll disinherit you if you don’t keep going to Mass? </p>
<p>I tried going back to Mass recently, but I still have trouble with Catholicism, especially concerning the hypocrisy on sexual abuse, gay marriage, activist nuns, birth control, etc. Perhaps the OP’s daughter has similar issues. </p>
<p>If someone’s condition on giving me money was some kind of personal behavior control, such as going to church, not going to church, not being gay, not eating hotdogs, whatever, I would turn it down. The cost is too high. There’s no free lunch,as they say.</p>
<p>I paid for my daughter’s college, with no conditions. I can’t imagine trying to control her by putting conditions on the money. She’s an adult. It has been my pleasure to pay for her education. I expect nothing in return.</p>
<p>Sure, for 25K I could “not go to church for a year.” And I’d even throw in eating meat on Fridays, too. (I doubt my pastor would agree with this plan, but I’m not going to consult him before I accept the $.)
I could always go to confession and donate $ to the church afterward
I’d also agree to go to almost any other kind of religious service one hour a week for 25K/year–as long as it wasn’t satanic or didn’t involve human sacrifice, I’d do that–sit in a room and watch/listen to what’s happening for $500/hr.
I’d even give up CC for 25K a year–and I usually spend a lot more than one hour a week on here (except during Lent.)</p>
<p>I think the difference is that the D is question IS a Catholic. She hasn’t outright rejected the church. She is just neglecting to go to mass. It is not the same thing as forcing someone to join a religion that they disagree with. But attending a service, if you don’t believe, is going to be like sitting in a room.</p>
<p>So you wouldn’t go to Church for money? Didn’t Jesus kind of tell people to shed their earthly possessions for God? It’s your faith, I won’t attempt to tell you anything about your religion, but the Catholic God I learned about wouldn’t approve of that. As always, to each their own. I just find it fascinating how many different ways religion can be interpreted. That’s the anthropologist in me :D</p>
<p>LOL. . .waiting for someone to come forward with that 25K.</p>
<p>On a purely rational, non-spiritual level, you could look at the OP’s original agreement with her D (we pay $25K/year for college, you attend weekly mass) as the student getting paid for anthropological research. $500/hr for sitting and observing human behavior at a religious service–it doesn’t matter if it is a religion she follows or not. It is $500/hr for her time.
People agree to do many things for money. If the parent offered $500/hr to pick up dog poop, scrub toilets, mow the lawn, wash dishes–would anyone object? But to sit in a pew (and stand, sit, kneel, stand, kneel, sit, etc. ) Unbearable? Unconscionable?</p>
<p>You gave up CC for Lent? That would be a challenge.
I think protesters have to understand and accept the meaning religion does have, to many people. While some find it appalling to be asked to go to Mass, a little respect for others’ beliefs would be gracious. That’s the anthropologist in me. Not ragging on you, romani. You just happen to be the post above me. </p>
<p>There are so many things we do ask our college age kids to do, because we believe them to be right and well considered, by us. This especially happens when our kids are not yet fully independent. Most of us hold our breaths during the college years, hoping that our kids will be fine and absorb our ethics and share what we feel are the best of our practices.</p>
<p>I know there is always an argument ready to brew over religion, but I choose to look for the good that comes when people have some sort of ethical and moral code- and do their best to live by it.</p>
