<p>This January, I found a black cocktail dress in my D’s size at Banana Republic, marked down to $17.99! I also found a black sequined Aqua dress at Bloomingdales marked down 80% to $22.99! I cut off the sale tags 
and mailed them to her. She was thrilled.</p>
<p>Expense can be money or time. If you enjoy shopping, then you will sometimes come across great bargains, but you have to have put in a lot of time to find those bargains. Not every woman enjoys clothes shopping, and I imagine that even if an engineering student loved to spend hours at the mall, she wouldn’t have the time.</p>
<p>Do you sorority women not realize that your constant refrain of “We are normal and you are not, if you do not think the way we do you are strange, you are also a bad neglectful mother who is failing her children,” might be perceived as just that little bit condescending?</p>
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<p>You’ve basically just described me at 17. A girl like that wouldn’t be able to afford the dues anyway, so the rest of it just seems to be moot. Being in a sorority is an optional activity. It costs money to maintain the house and whatever other expenses are incurred. Just like any activity in life, if you cannot afford it, you don’t do it.</p>
<p>I had to work my way through college. I worked every summer and every school break,
Christmas, spring break, etc., just to be able to afford tuition, books, dorm, and the very basic extra expenses. My parents had 5 other kids and just could not afford to send us all to college and buy us nice clothes. I never felt they had failed me. They did help out with expenses, and between that, student loans, a scholarship, and working my tail off, I was able to get a degree. There was not one dime left over for joining a sorority, but that was just a reality, not that I was being wronged by the system.</p>
<p>“Expense can be money or time.”
Well, then I suppose that engineering student would not be interested in a sorority. </p>
<p>And to the OP’s original question…one of the disadvantages of joining a sorority is defending your choice to do so. That appears to be the most onerous disadvantage I have observed.</p>
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<p>I think both sides (if there is an actual dichotomy) of this question get a little defensive about the insinuations that they interpret from the other side. I hope I have not come across as putting down girls who care a lot about their dress and put time into their appearance. By the same token, I feel like there has been the implication on the part of some that if you don’t care so much about those things, you are socially deficient or are missing out on something. Maybe I have misinterpreted that.</p>
<p>I have no problem with girls who dress according to the Pi Phi standards or any other group standards if they choose to do so. I don’t think people who work on their looks a lot are any less likely to be good and intelligent people. I do have a problem with people who use those standards to dismiss the core worth of others, whether it be for sororities, jobs or friendship.</p>
<p>Personal style and effort in appearance is just one small attribute of a person, it does say something about personality and values, but, to me, it is an insignificant piece of the overall person. It says nothing about someone’s intellect, sense of humor, integrity, work ethic, compassion, etc.–Qualities, that I would think are much more important for bonding with the people you are going to spend so much time with.</p>
<p>I do think this particular Pi Phi chapter has every right to say what they want to see in their potential members and it is much better for rushees to have it out there, not whispered about. But I do question the priorities of girls that join this chapter, not because of the way they dress, but because they only want to be associated (as sisters) with others that dress like them.</p>
<p>Going back to the comparison about picking a roommate through Facebook…My daughter found her roommate that way and they get along fine, but she admits that her roomie is nothing like she imagined after exchanging a few emails. Her suite mates also picked one another that way and now can’t stand each other. So in this case, I’m not sure a few superficial contacts is any better than random selection.</p>
<p>I grew up in a rowhouse in Philadelphia that was 12 feet wide – my grandmother still lives there. I lived with my mother and grandparents; my grandfather was a blue-collar factory worker who worked an extra job as well. We did not have extra money for “fancy” stuff. But we still had what would be called “Sunday best” for lack of a better term. We still had clothes that would get us through nice events, still dressed up for anniversaries and holidays and things of that nature. It might have come from the sale rack at a nice department store, but we just didn’t <em>live</em> like how some of you are describing. </p>
<p>Sorry, if you send your 17 yo daughter off to school without even one pair of pants that aren’t jeans and one nice top, or your 17 yo son off to school and he doesn’t even have one pair of khakis and a buttondown – you’ve let your kid down. You’re training him or her for a world in which everything is everyday-sloppy and there’s never any occasion to spruce it up.</p>
<p>This isn’t about money – all of the above can be purchased at Target or even Walmart. This is about participating in all life has to offer instead of just confining yourself to the world of jeans and t-shirts and casual slob.</p>
<p>It would never occur to some of you to send your D off to college with nice black pants and a top because what if she goes to an event at a professor’s house, or meets a boyfriend’s family for the first time, or goes to a nearby friend’s house for Thanksgiving instead of flying home? Or do you just assume that jeans and t-shirts will go everywhere she’ll want to go and anyplace beyond that is just too “uppity” for words?</p>
<p>Stop, Pizzagirl. Just stop assuming that the way you live is the way everyone else should live. Stop assuming that everyone else is just like you. Stop insulting people who are not like you.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl…did you even READ the linked list (not the edited version)? The list was very specific as to NO CHEAP “PLASTICY” SHOES. The writer named specific high end labels that would be acceptable. Granted, this is one sorority that pushed the issue, but lets not discount people who find it offensive.
I mean really, do you group people into two groups…those that adhere to the listed rules and those who are what you call “casual slobs”.? No other options?</p>
<p>Just a comment on the Cornell dress code memo - isn’t this a memo for the PiPhis themselves from their rush chair - what they should wear to attract new members and promote the image they want to project? Not what they want rushees to wear to be accepted. I suppose it’s a minor point but part of the mutual selection process that goes on during rush. I know that not all the houses at Cornell are like this - my d has a friend who is in a sorority there who is nothing like this.</p>
<p>It would be offensive to say “do not wear cheap plasticy shoes” in public and to people you don’t know. Would it really be offensive when you were out shopping with your girlfriends and you were to say, “Ugh, I don’t like that bag, it just looks cheap and plasticy, the color is just too gaudy.” It was an email sent to sisters in the house, not to the new recruits.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl has her way of expressing herself, but in this case I also don’t think it’s a money issue. Not providing your kids with proper clothing, so they could participate in full range of things in college is not serving them well (meeting professors, interviewing for jobs, going to parties).</p>
<p>My husband and I were not Greek, but our D is very happy in a sorority. Reading on this thread about some of the experiences students have had at other sororities makes me want to tear my hear, though. I think it really does depend on the sorority and the college. For my D:</p>
<p>1.) Living in the sorority is less expensive than living in a number of the other on-campus residences, and the food is better.</p>
<p>2.) Not a bastion of the wealthy. Many of the women work at PT jobs and receive FA. There is no stigma. My D has been the beneficiary of sisters helping her to find jobs.</p>
<p>3.) Not a bastion of whiteness. In fact, if you look at the photos, poster children for diversity.</p>
<p>4.) Religious and political diversity. So much so that the Christian language connected to the national group is not employed, as the sisters include Jews and in smaller numbers Muslims and Hindus. In fact, D has been exposed to a wide range of political, religious, and social convictions, and has benefitted from this exposure</p>
<p>5.) There is no expectation that the women will drink. Some do. Some don’t. Some are Mormons and Muslims and really, really don’t.</p>
<p>6.) No expectations that all of one’s friends will be in the sorority. My D has close friends who are not in the sorority. She engages in group activities that include sorority sisters and close friends who are not in the sorority. All the time.</p>
<p>7.) As far as I can tell, these women are pretty nice to each other and watch each other’s backs. When my D has had bumps in the road and emergencies, large and small, her sisters have been there for her in a way that is really heart warming.</p>
<p>8.) Her academic performance has not been in any way undermined. Her involvement in a time consuming EC as not been undermined. Her values have not been undermined. </p>
<p>9.) Frat parties at this college are not closed, so there is not a social life exclusive to Greeks. There are small, specific events, like when one sorority and one fraternity have a ski trip or a mixer, that are limited to members. There is, however, a very active social life with a lot of events planned. Attendance isn’t mandatory, but my D really enjoys this stuff. Depends on the kid.</p>
<p>8.) Not only did my D not go off to college with an array of cocktail dresses, I’m not entirely certain she could have identified a cocktail dress at that time. And she certainly didn’t need one for rush! (Although I do think she wore a skirt or a dress at some point in the process.)</p>
<p>9.) D doesn’t judge people by how they look. She never has. I find it unlikely that she’d be comfortable hanging out with a bunch of women who did.</p>
<p>I can only speak in terms of my D’s experience in one sorority at one college, but I really don’t see any disadvantages. Except, of course, that apparently there are a lot of women out there who judge women who join sororities very, very harshly and might tend to judge her negatively because of her sorority affiliation.</p>
<p>It’s a memo to the Pi Phis. But this year’s rushees will be next year’s sisters. The Pi Psis will obviously want to be selecting young women for whom a memo of this type would be normal and expected, not women who have never had a manicure and don’t have the means to buy high-end shoes.</p>
<p>“it really be offensive when you were out shopping with your girlfriends and you were to say, “Ugh, I don’t like that bag, it just looks cheap and plasticy, the color is just too gaudy.””</p>
<p>In my world, YES—it would be mean, nasty and offensive. My friends feelings are more important than my sartorial opinions.</p>
<p>But sorority was never meant for everyone, and there is no reason for it to be. It doesn’t mean it’s bad or evil, it’s just not everyone’s cup of tea. It doesn’t make people who don’t want to join bad people either. It doesn’t make people who enjoy sorority life seem like they are shallow or brainless either.</p>
<p>And CCSurfer–negative judgement does not just come from outside the sorority system…
As one “sister” posted earlier…(just one girls opinion, of course)</p>
<p>“is what its like at most places. Schools have more than 1 sorority usually and they each have their own stereotypes. At my school there are only 3. One is known for being the pretty, rich girls who are dumb as rocks, one is known for being the fat, ugly girls and the last is known for being the normal, sort of middle of the road girls who are pretty but smart and well-liked by most people. Obviously you can see which one most girls try to join. The one that is known for having the undesirable girls got that way because they pretty much let anyone who rushes in. All the guys make fun of them and none of the frats want to party with them. Thats just the way it is, and you can’t tell me that life outside of college isn’t like this. People will judge you on your looks your entire life its just a fact. Its not the only factor, but studies do show that attractive people make 25% more in the same job with the same qualifications. But, like the less popular greek organizations, there is a place for everyone in the world to fit in. All of the girls are happy in their groups and have made lifelong friends. Its really not a bad thing.”</p>
<p>It is precisely the reason why my friends take me shopping with them. I would tell them if an outfit looks hideous on them. I would never say anything after they bought it (oh yes, it looks wonderful on you), but before that, if I could prevent a fashion suicide I would.</p>
<p>No one is arguing that sororities are for everyone. The OP asked if there were any unanticipated negatives. We have listed a few. Basically if you are “that sort of girl” you will like “that sort of thing”. This applies to girls in and out of the system.</p>
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<p>Absolutely. Bringing them up in such a way that they think that any occasion that requires more than jeans and t-shirts is just too far above their station for them to even consider? That’s <em>sad.</em> </p>
<p>This has nothing to do with money. Nothing whatsoever. It has to do with limiting your children’s ability to participate in the full range of what opportunities are there. So you send your D off to college with only jeans and t-shirts. Forget the Greek system. So then her roommate’s family invites her out for a nice dinner downtown or to their house for Thanksgiving. Her new boyfriend wants her to meet the 'rents. She’s invited to a reception at a professor’s house. Her theater class goes to see a play downtown. She’s going to wear what, again? Oh – it was just too “uppity” and “superficial” to suggest she lift her sights higher than jeans and t-shirts. I don’t believe that there are grown adults who actually don’t get that there are occasions beyond jeans and t-shirts. What, none of you ever go out to a nice dinner? To someone’s birthday party? To an occasion that requires more than jeans and t-shirts for yourself? So why wouldn’t it be any different for your kids?</p>
<p>:)-- Oldfort smiling politely at what I am wearing right now.</p>