Disadvantages of joining a sorority?

<p>I actually think that it would be a good idea for all the sororities to send out emails like the Pi Phi one to rushees stating explicitly what their standards and expectations are for dress, behavior, etc. It would be great if they could describe the general “personality” of the group and openly comment on the kinds of girls that would fit in. That way every girl would know exactly what they are getting into and which sororities fit them best.</p>

<p>Oldfort’s daughter considers Pi Phi’s standards normal and appropriate, but many do not and can cross that particular sorority off their list after receiving the email. I think it is only fair that each sorority make clear what they are looking for (or at) in a candidate, if rush is going to continue as is.</p>

<p>This is for rush week. EVERY sorority has the exact dress code for each day of the week for that week, even Woody’s daughter dressed up according to the dress code during THE RUSH WEEK. They don’t dress like that other time of the year.</p>

<p>Yes, my daughter gets her nails and hair done just like many other girls her age, especially when there is a big event. Many college kids go to cocktail parties. Even in my days at a very small LAC, we didn’t have sororities, but there were cocktail parties sponsored by school and by various organizations. We had to go semi formal to those parties (guys with suit jackets and ladies in skirts). Some may not see it as being useful, but once I entered the business world, skills of knowing how to pull oneself together (going from day to night) to go to various after hours business functions and ability to carry on small talks at those parties have helped me tremendously.</p>

<p>I was a first generation immigrant, my parents really didn’t know “the American way.” I have been to a real restaurant twice in my life before I went off to college. The most important education I learned in college was how to dress, how to carry myself at a party, what’s appropriate to say, and how to be noticed. I wished there was a list that I could have studied, but I learned by making mistakes and making observations. All that fluff on the outside didn’t change me as a person inside, but it polished up my outside to match what’s inside of me. When I walked into a large crowded party, I no longer felt intimidated, I knew what I had on didn’t look out of place, and it gave me the confidence to engage people in the way I wanted to instead of being self conscious of the way I looked.</p>

<p>Many of you may think it’s superficial, and probably would tell your daughters as such. But in my view you are doing a disservice to your kids. I see so many young people at interview situation wearing suits or leather shoes for the first time, not knowing where to put their hands, constantly pulling at their clothes, not able to make eye contact, girls wearing large/cheap jewelry, and some even overdo with their makeups. I am sure while they are being uncomfortable in their clothes, it’s hard for them to focus on interview questions. It is unfortunate, but there are still grown women who don’t know how to pull themselves together.</p>

<p>I think if you were to read the list over carefully, you would see there is nothing expensive about it. It advised girls to keep a clear skin, no need to have heavy cake on makeup (how many times we wanted to tell our teenage daughters that?) It said not to wear overly sexy shoes (high spikey heels), but to wear low heels or flats. It is middle of winter in Ithaca, so don’t wear summer sundresses. Again, I think many of those things on the list were very sensible. Some may not like the way it was written, but I thought it had a lot of humor and they are 20 something.</p>

<p>Oldfort, one thing is dressing up or dressing down as appropriate to suit the situation, and another thing is the style of that “dressing up” being dictated by personal tastes. Not all girls like to dress in labeled clothes and certain color, cloth, types of accessories etc. Not all need to spend an hour working on their hair for it to look nice and neat. My eldest daughter’s funky style carries over to her dressing up and I’m sure it’s very different from your daughter’s, and what is indicated in the Pi Phi email. I doubt she would ever get a manicure on her own. She paints her own nails, sometimes with unusual colors. I also doubt she is less “pulled-together” (I’m starting to really cringe at that euphemism) than your daughter. But I seem to recall, your daughter is interested in investment firms or banking and was a very successful interviewer. I’m sure her physical style was one factor in her success, as I assume she went with what I’ll attempt to describe as a preppy, well-primped look, as outlined by the Pi Phi advice. This style is probably expected and wide-spread for those industries, but would not impress at all kinds of jobs, or all kinds of people. I just think different people look to become a part of different cultures and adapt their behavior and style accordingly. I imagine that being heavily made-up and coiffed, with designer clothes, could even be a detriment at interviews for certain kinds of jobs.</p>

<p>As an aspiring filmmaker, D1 is an artist and I’m sure will dress very differently than yours at job interviews. But in the end, the job outcomes will depend much more on other more important factors than the way they present themselves physically, or even their small-talk abilities.</p>

<p>Btw, D2 has a very different style from her sister. In any case, they are both always clean, smell nice, and their hair is brushed and their clothes fit appropriately when they go out, but neither would conform to the standards outlined by Pi Phi, nor would they want to.</p>

<p>Actually, in private going clubbing, D1 is very hip. She doesn’t color her hair, but she’ll wear very funky accessories and outfit. You are correct that every industry is different and dress norm varies, and that’s to be expected. I am sure your daughters are very pulled together in what they think is appropriate. I bet you if they were to rush, they would have added their own style to each of those dress days, and they may even have found a house on campus with a twist that they are looking for.</p>

<p>I probably have posted more on this thread than I should have on this matter. But it does bother me with all the put down on girls who may take their looks (not using the words pull together) more seriously, and it’s something to celebrate when girls don’t.</p>

<p>How often do women (more girls) call each other up to find out what they are wearing for certain event? How often have we seen people posting such question on cafe - there is one now about what to wear to a business casual dinner with a boyfriend. Could it be this person from the sorority, instead of having 100+ girls emailing her over the holiday break, just decided to do a mass email to everyone?</p>

<p>A side note to D1’s interview outfits - I purposely picked out suits and shirts for her that would be out of norm a bit. She didn’t look like every girl that showed up with their short black jacket and white shirt, low black pumps.</p>

<p>“Many of you think it’s superficial and will tell your daughters as such.”</p>

<p>On the contrary, I do not think that clothing is superficial.Just because a young woman does not follow these RULES it does not signify that she does not take clothing seriously. With a husband who is a costumer, we talk about clothes A LOT. DD is a performing artist and needs a different look on stage, at an audition, at a meeting with a director and so on. But I do think, in light of the OP’s question, that some of these bizarre lists are stifling and could be for many a “negative”. For others it is an “opportunity” to learn how to conform. I can dress for a formal corporate luncheon with the best of 'em. But in MY life(the other 120 hours of the week), I hardly want these strictures to dictate who I am.</p>

<p>The dress code (whether you agree with it or not) is from ONE chapter in ONE school folks.
This does not represent all sororities or even all sororities at Cornell or all Pi Phi chapters.</p>

<p>And when I say we discuss clothing a lot. Style, yes…labels, hardly ever. The most stylish people I have known created their look out of what they found at thrift stores and Target.</p>

<p>And NO one said that it was every sorority. But it does exist at some chapters and young women (the OPs D) should be aware of that.</p>

<p>Sure the OP should be aware of it. But she/he should also be aware that sororities are not all the same. The college I attended in the midwest was very heavily greek but most students were from middle class families (and still are) so this was not the way it was when I pledged and is likely not the way it is now.</p>

<p>Actually that was the dress code for all sororities for the Rush week. On the business casual day, people are asked to dress business casual. On the cocktail dress day, then that’s what people were expected to wear. Of course each person’s interpretation of each of dress code was different, and each house interpretation maybe different. But same dress code for everyone. Pi Phi at Cornell didn’t come up with the dress code.</p>

<p>I really think that at this point we should invite fummer10 to come back and clarify exactly what’s going on at sororitys today…;)</p>

<p>I have no information on the dress codes for rush these days. It was certainly not like that in the 70s. However, there is some good advice in that list - particularly the advice under “cocktail.” I saw lots of girls at D’s prom that would have benefited. </p>

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<p>My D is a Pi Phi and although there were different categories of dress for each day of rush it was nothing like the posted example. Things in general are more casual and relaxed. Maybe it’s an East Coast/West Coast thing but a lot of the sorority stereotypes you hear about just are not prevalent where she is.</p>

<p>Presumably, the girls who pledged Pi Phi at Cornell were attracted to the culture at that house, including how the girls presented themselves during rush week. I’m sure if a girl walked into the Pi Phi house on Preference night and was horrified by or felt out of place with the attire worn by the members, she would not choose that house. Other girls might conclude that they would love to learn to look that great and figure this is where they can learn it.</p>

<p>I agree with the notion that you do your kids a disservice by ignoring the importance of looking good and dressing appropriately. Those students who graduate with both scholarship and know how to put together a polished and appropriate physical presentation will have a leg-up over those who only cared about academic achievement.</p>

<p>I admit that I’m on the far, far end of the social bell curve, about as far from those Pi Psi women as possible. So who am I to judge them? They should get together and have fun, why not? There’s room for all sorts of groups.</p>

<p>But oldfort, I do think you should reconsider your estimate of the cost of the wardrobe, accessories and salon visits required for membership in Pi Psi. Suppose a girl is seventeen and she has none of the items listed in the communique: none of the makeup, none of the fashionable shoes, no pair of dressy slacks and attractive blouses that fit her (because she has just finished growing), no cocktail dress, no diamond studs, no statement necklaces or earrings whatever those are, none of the right jeans, the right tops, the right sweaters, the right hose, the right boots. How much would it cost her to buy all those things? How much do manicures and pedicures cost? To me, those things sound expensive.</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to be critical, but I still don’t understand why one needs a sorority for this. My mother taught it to me. I taught it to my daughters – although naturally I’ve had to make adjustments for some changes in fashion, etc. Why should one, or must one, rely on a sorority to be the first line of information? I must be quite a minority on CC. Or maybe because my d’s also went to girls’ high schools?</p>

<p>When my now-grown daughter needs an answer to appropriate clothing for a particular business or social event, she turns to me, not to her college buds. I guess we’re way behind the times.</p>

<p>The attire on that list was for girls who are already members. My Ds in college borrow clothes from their friends all the time.</p>

<p>epiphany,
There is absolutely no reason that girls need to join sororities to learn how to dress. I was responding to posters who put down sorority girls because those girls care about how they look.</p>

<p>There are girls in my daughter’s sorority who are on 100% FA, they borrowed a lot. During the rush week, they would rummage through people’s closets. My daughter didn’t have time to get her nails done, so she did paint them herself. </p>

<p>If you read the list, it said IF you colored your hair (my daughter didn’t) get it freshen up. It never said people had to get their hair done. It asked girls to have fresh looking skin (by washing), instead of thick cake cover.</p>

<p>My parents never gave me any spending money while I was in school. I worked 20 hours a week to pay for food and have some spending money. I had 2 designer jeans instead of 10. I had one or two argyle sweaters instead of 20. I bought few skirts that I mixed and matched with few sweaters I had. It was worth my while to invest on few of those things in order to fit in, because I wanted to. A girl who doesn’t care for that sort of things, would certainly find it to be wasteful and pointless. Everyone needs a pair of jeans or shoes at some point. It wouldn’t be that difficult to get a pair that’s in fashion.</p>

<p>Maybe it’s all shallow, maybe it’s better to be different and not conform. On the other hand, what’s so bad about to be able to walk into a cafeteria, library, or class and have people automatically include you and make you feel welcome because they could relate to you. I think it must be kind of a confidence builder.</p>

<p>You don’t need to be in a sorority to know how to dress or groom because it is basic. The only reason it is being associated with sorority is because of the article about Pi Phi.</p>

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<p>If her parents sent her off to college with ONLY jeans and t-shirts, and not even one pair of nice black slacks, blouse or sweater that could pass muster in a nicer situation, one skirt or dress, or one pair of shoes that weren’t sneakers, then they’ve failed her. Come on, this is the real world. My kids wear jeans and t-shirts 99% of the time like all other kids, but D has a few skirts and dresses and nice outfits hanging in her closet, S has khakis and a few button-downs and nice sweaters and a suit hanging in his closet, and <em>of course</em> they will take that stuff off to college with them. Because they might very well have occasions where dressing beyond normal jeans / t-shirt is appropriate, and that’s part of becoming an adult – being always prepared for those situations. You seriously aren’t sending your daughters off to school in <em>only</em> jeans and t-shirts, right? Is the world that limited that you can’t envision that your D might be at an occasion where dressing up a bit is appropriate, expected and / or fun?</p>

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<p>Why wouldn’t a girl with pierced ears have at least some faux diamond studs or faux pearls if she didn’t have real? Isn’t that the normal … you start your daughter off with something that’s classic and timeless? I don’t know, we got our D diamond studs for her 16th birthday. That seems like a normal type of gift, to set a young girl up. She also received pearls from her grandparents. You don’t have to be rich to have just faux-basics – you could get that stuff at Target.</p>