Disadvantages of joining a sorority?

[MidwestMom2Kids_1]

<p>

What I imagine are lots of social events, girls judging you based on little information after the fact, and one ultimately being ranked or selected (or not selected). Ouch.

Um, yes, and girls judging you at house after house, over and over and over… I know a lovely, friendly, smart girl who went through all of rush at my D’s college and in the end did not get a bid. Now some of you are going to say, oh, she should have “maximized her options” somehow to be sure she got in SOMEwhere, that there is a trick to this, but seriously, at the beginning of rush at her school they didn’t explain to her “This is what you should do if you want to be SURE that at the end you get into a sorority” There is a process where periodically through the rush (which happens the week before school starts, so these are basically high school girls rushing and being judged) the girls list their favorite sororities and the sororities list their favorite girls and there might not be a happy ending. A sad thing to have had happened at the start of this girl’s freshman year this fall. Crap. This girl is gorgeous and in high school she was an A student, a popular cheerleader, goes away to school… and there you are, EARLY in your college freshman year, REjected. I guess you can tell I am not keen on this. Oh, and now people will post, good heavens, it is nothing like that at the college I’m familiar with, and I know that it’s different everywhere, but still, generally speaking, I am just not keen on the whole sorority rush/selection process.</p>

<p>And then you keep seeing the people you met during rush on campus…</p>

<p>I am not sure that it is always good for you, in your early post-college life, to have sorority positions be part of your resume. I’m sure it depends on what kind of job you are applying for and who is looking at your resume.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>Rush at my daughter’s school is also a serious business. It’s a week of prep and a week of hell (they are up from 6am to very late at night). It takes a lot of work to make the house look nice. The girls are prepped in what to say or not to say. Most houses do not care about people’s family background or even legacy (I think they just have a rule not to cut a legacy the first round). There is only one fraternity (rumor has it) that asks for parents’ tax return. </p>

<p>When they look for “babies” they are looking for girls they could hang out with. Yes, it could sometimes mean the way they look, carry themselves, or dress. But we do that in real life also. I would be the first one to admit that most of my friends (not all) have similar social, economic, educational background. The reason is they “get it” when I am talking to them. D1’s closest friends are in her sorority, but she also has friends from dance and other ECs.</p>

<p>As far as drinking, D1’s sorority is a lot more careful about it than the general college population. They always have sobers for every event they attend. Sober’s job is to make sure no sister gets drunk at parties and make a fool of herself. I heard the signal is if you are given a water bottle then it means you’ve had enough. D1’s sorority usually will not “admit” girls who get too sloppy at parties freshman year because it’s not the image they want. When they have mixers with a fraternity they will request to have designated drivers from that fraternity. One fraternity that they didn’t mixed often didn’t take them seriously about drivers one time(all of them were drinking), the girls all left early to go some where else (where there were drivers), and they haven’t mixed again.</p>

<p>I am not here to say sorority is the best thing since slice of bread, but I know D1 has been very happy with her experience. I didn’t belong to a sorority when I was in college because it used to be an all boy school (a lot of fraternities), so when D1 wanted to join I was a bit apprehensive. It does bother D1 that it is exclusive sometimes, but it was no different for her than when she was in high school. I don’t think people need to join sorority to make long lasting college friendship because many of us have done it. At the same time, I don’t think it is all negative that many people like to make it out to be. It does take a certain personality to be in it, so it’s not for everyone, just like all other clubs or ECs.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>

I know a lovely, friendly, smart girl who went through all of rush at my D’s college and in the end did not get a bid.

For every story like that, there are 100 happy stories. It does happen. At my daughter’s school I think it has to do with their computer system. They have a program to match a house with people’s preference, and I do not believe it’s 100 proof. It is a rather complicated algorithm based on how D1 described it to me. D1’s sorority has gotten random people who they don’t know how in the world they got a bid.</p>

[LINYMOM]

<p>I was in a sorority at Northwestern (early 80’s). I didn’t know anything about Greek Life so I didn’t get involved till sophomore year. I had plenty of friends outside the Greek system. </p>

<p>Each house has its own personality - to me it was just about finding a group that was comfortable. You can get as involved as you want. I wasn’t particulary involved during college (did live in the house junior year), but now I’ve reconnected with “sisters” and, even though we weren’t very close during college, we certainly have a connection. And that’s a positive thing - for friendship and also work connections.</p>

<p>My D, a HS sr., is very interested in sororities in college. No idea where she got this from. I don’t talk about it, that’s for sure!</p>

<p>For me, it added a dimension to college life. I’m not encouraging my D or discouraging her. I know that at Northwestern, rush has changed - it’s in the spring semester, not the fall, so you can at least get used to school and meet some people before you decide if you want to go through the process. I think that’s a good time for a new student to explore all options (clubs, Greek life, etc.).</p>

[Wildwood11]

<p>When I got to college in the late 70s, I had no intention of joining a sorority or going through rush. I met some friends on my dorm floor in the first week who talked me into trying it, and I decided to just go for the experience. After the first round, which consisted I think of about 7? minutes in each house during which sisters would spend a couple of minutes chatting with a group and then switch to another, I was the only one in my rush group to be invited back to all 14 sororities. I attribute this to the fact I was not nervous or invested in this process and therefore not trying too hard (no family connections or great wealth). </p>

<p>I decided to go ahead for the second round and picked my six choices based completely on their reputations and supposed “culture”. When I got to the place where my group was meeting, I saw the rest of the girls all dolled up with high heels, nice dresses and makeup. I, on the other hand, was wearing a jean skirt, Dr. Scholls, and no makeup or coiffed hair. I honestly was oblivious to the expectations for dress and image until that moment. I realized then and there that I did not belong in a sorority. My rush counselor tried to get me to stay, offering to wait for me to change, but of course, the problem was not in the attire.</p>

[sabaray]

<p>Wildwood11, I love your story. Sororities are definitely not for everyone and it’s great that you figured it out then and there.</p>

[ShanghaiMom]

<p>I loved being part of a sorority in college (midwest Big 10 school in the 80s) - I held several offices in my house and was president of Panhel which not only put me in contact with girls from other sororities but made me a part of the school’s group of club/student govt presidents so I had a much wider group of friend than just my own house. My house was a very diverse group of girls as well - I think their whole goal when picking members was to pick a diverse group of non-sorority types. This really echoes the comments above that the experience varies from school to school.
I think the biggest downside is time committment - which will also vary from school to school. I obviously chose to spend my time on greek life but there are also members who choose to be involved in other things and just socialize with their sorority. My d is in a sorority at Penn but has never lived in the house and lives with a group of girls who are not in sororities or are in different ones. Her tie to her house was not that strong until this fall when all 7 of her roommates went abroad for the semester and she lived with subletting strangers. She became a lot closer with some of her sorority sisters and even served as an officer in her house. She told me that 3 of her roommates ended up de-activating this month because they didn’t want to put the time in for new member recruitment. Seems a bit selfish to me but they obviously didnt value being in a sorority enough to spend the time required.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Yeah but its a lot more gentle in real life, right? It’s gradual, its usually across different contexts, its not programmed, it’s based on a lot more than meeting at some parties, and there isn’t a critical point where one gets a vote or not. And if we don’t connect, we don’t notice; if we don’t follow up, its subtle and gradual and attributed to a million other things. Come to think of it, I don’t think I met my friends at parties in college but in class and sports.

</p>

<p>Sure, but still, you formed impressions and from there you decided to make an effort to connect further, or not. </p>

<p>

There is something uniquely odd and distorted about going to parties, and people ranking/selecting the ones they liked best and announcing it (assuming its like the movies).

</p>

<p>Well, that’s where you’re wrong. No one stands up there and announces that they luvvvve Suzie but hate Martha. In my experience, all girls were treated warmly and with respect. There would have been hell to pay if we talked about a girl nastily. Have you ever been on a selection committee for a scholarship or a job position? You can discuss whether or not you connected with / thought someone would be a good fit without disparaging those who you don’t think are as a good of a fit. </p>

<p>

And how much contact hours are there really? I mean its a party or a few. how do you get to know someone in such a context- I mean their real values, political views, personality?

</p>

<p>It depends. People talk about what they want to talk about. You can still get a sense of someone’s personality - quiet, outgoing, cynical, bubbly – their interests, hobbies, majors – maybe some other interests they have or what they’re looking forward to doing at the college). </p>

<p>When you’ve toured college campuses, the tour guides give you a certain feel, right? The students that you interact with, even casually, give you a certain feel, right? Your kid can think, “Hmm, I can see being friendly with / interacting with these students here, they seem down to earth / ambitious / intellectual / quirky / mainstream and that’s how I tend to be” or “Gosh, they just don’t seem my type.” What’s the difference? </p>

<p>

Any sorority rejects out there to tell us about it?

</p>

<p>I still think you absolutely cannot compare systems where girls are competing to get into a limited number of spots and the houses are known to judge people on wealth, etc. with a system that is more laid-back and these are just friendship groups and there is a place for pretty much everyone. South vs North is not the main divide, but it’s a pretty important one. </p>

<p>H and I were at the College of Charleston (SC) and we saw groups of girls in sororities in which each girl was wearing the exact same shirt, carrying the same handbag, and they were clustered in such a way that no girl was interacting with any other girl other than in her house. We laughed, because it was SUCH the anathema of our experience. We might have worn our letters, but we had no “uniform” and of course we were friendly with girls outside our houses, whether through other clubs, activities, sports, or classes. You just can’t compare the different types of cultures and come up with a uniform statement.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>This is a prime example of what we did NOT have at Northwestern:</p>

<p>

We already had our hoped-for pledge class picked out before those girls ever arrived on campus for rush. Every night after a party, we discussed each invitee. First someone summarized her sheet: where she was from, who her parents were, Church membership, HS attended, GPA (a very modest minimum was required) whether she was a legacy.

</p>

<p>We didn’t have a “hoped-for pledge class.” We were meeting X number of new girls. Blank slate.
“Who her parents were.” Gag. We neither knew, nor cared, who anybody’s parents were. They were all … well, just parents of college freshmen. I suppose if there had been some celebrity’s child, that might have been an interest factor, but beyond that? Nope.
“Church membership.” Again. Gag. Unknown and irrelevant. What kinds of normal people care what church / religion someone is? Don’t paint Northern greek systems with that Southern tendency of inquiring about church / religion.
“HS attended / GPA.” We might have known where they came from because that’s part of getting to know someone (“Mary’s the theater major from Seattle, Suzy’s the econ major from Buffalo”) but how would we know what HS they attended, and why would it be relevant in the least? Seems only relevant to schools that attract mostly local people, and that in and of itself says something about the selectivity of the school (not). As for GPA, they got into Northwestern, so they were obviously smart enough.
“Legacy.” We did know that.<br>
"It had very little to do with what she said or did at the party. It had a whole lot to do with her <em>look</em> and who her parents were, where she came from. “Is this someone we want wearing our shirt on campus? Do we want everyone to know she is in our sorority?” Not at all. Ours was based on, did we like this person? Find her interesting, someone we could spending time with? It was very much based on what she said at the party and how she interacted. If we felt we didn’t have enough of a sense of her, she was invited back and a special effort was made to get to know her better. The “who her parents were and where she came from” is just so very gaggy. </p>

<p>And here’s the thing. If you have a critical mass of bubbleheads who are “evaluating” people based on what church they go to, how hot they are and how rich their daddies are, how would eliminating the Greek system change anything? They’d still evaluate others on that same criteria. That’s a ding of the types of colleges who attract superficial bubbleheads like that.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

I was in a sorority at Northwestern (early 80’s). I didn’t know anything about Greek Life so I didn’t get involved till sophomore year. I had plenty of friends outside the Greek system.

Hey, I’ll have to PM you! Me too! LOL.</p>

[mom2collegekids]

<p>*at my southern sorority in the 70’s, it was based on a whole lot more than a few minutes conversation at a party. It was sure a surprise to me the first time I was on the sorority side of the rush experience. Our house slept 60+/- girls and we had around 200 active members. If memory is correct we all had to live at the house for a week of rush preparation and then rush week itself. When we arrived for rush prep the rush committee had already taped in strategic places in the house, including the doors of the toilet stalls, the resumes and photos of the top girls we would be trying to recruit. We already had our hoped-for pledge class picked out before those girls ever arrived on campus for rush. Every night after a party, we discussed each invitee. First someone summarized her sheet: where she was from, who her parents were, Church membership, HS attended, GPA (a very modest minimum was required) whether she was a legacy. *</p>

<p>Well, I’m glad things have evolved since the 70s. As someone who has written many recs for girls to rush at southern sororities in recent years, no one cared that these girls came from a Catholic school (or were Catholic or whatever). </p>

<p>Sororities now seem more interested in getting girls that have good GPAs, are friendly, reasonably outgoing, have ECs, and are reasonably attractive. Some might criticize that last aspect, and less attractive girls do get bids, but being reasonably attractive does help (in almost all aspects of life - including getting jobs).</p>

[oldfort]

<p>My daughter’s sorority does have “hoped-for” before the rush week. They come up with the list by getting to know the new freshman girls fall semester. They see the new girls around campus and at parties. It’s a way for them to see if they would be good fit. By rush week, freshman girls know which houses are their top picks and each house also knows which girls are their top picks. It’s more than just half an hour to make an impression.</p>

[LINYMOM]

<p>Ok - so here’s the BEST advantage of Greek Life. Turns out that PizzaGirl and I were sorority sisters at Northwestern. Haven’t seen each other or talked since college. Found each other on FB and chat over the past several months. Now we found each other here this morning! </p>

<p>Any club or sorority/fraternity helps you find a smaller group on a large campus. Helps you not get lost. Makes a campus like NU (8,000) or Penn State (35,000?) more manageable.</p>

<p>So my college BFF was in the sorority (pledged freshman year). Her roommate and I went through rush sophomore year. I got in the same sorority, the roommate didn’t. We were best friends then and continue to be today, 25 years after we graduated. The one not in the sorority was able to go to most parties with us and was not left out – even when our sorority had mixers with fraternities. Hung around the house with us too. In fact, when I connected with another sorority sister on FB, she mentioned she thought the roommate was actually a sorority member too (although maybe she was just trying to be nice). I can’t tell you how she felt not being in the sorority, but I can tell you that it didn’t affect our friendship.</p>

<p>When my D gets to college, of course I would love for her to join the same sorority that I was in. (When we passed the house on the way to our Univ of Delaware visit, I stopped in with D so she could see what it was like.) However, she has to find people who she is comfortable with and can be friends with. To me, that’s what it’s about.</p>

<p>If it’s about status for you and your D, then she will find the status-conscious house on campus. If it’s not about status for her, then she will find the right people for her too - whether they are in a sorority or a special interest club.</p>

[Wildwood11]

<p>Pizzagirl, my experience is also from Northwestern. I certainly believe you that there were no pre-established lists with background info for most houses. I do not pretend to have a lot of knowledge about sorority living or selection. but I can attest to the fact that back then each sorority had a specific reputation on campus, fairly or not. There were the rich, snobby, waspy ones, the theater major one, the “down to earth” ones and the predominantly jewish one(s). I have no idea if it is still the case today.</p>

<p>So to get back to the OPs question about disadvantages, from my perspective, one would be to have a preconceived image, based on your sorority membership, attached to you. I would think as a member, the club’s reputation would stick to you and, to a certain extent, limit deeper relationships with those turned off by the association. OTOH, there may be people who are quite happy to be associated with a certain sorority culture and see that as a benefit.</p>

[rodney]

<p>This thread is turning out to be hysterical…and what’s with all the NU women???</p>

<p>LINYMOM: my daughter is a HS junior and already knows she wants to be in a sorority also, which is kinda weird because her friends are so diverse that I can’t imagine her finding a sorority like that…anywhere…</p>

<p>But I think it results from the summer camp mentality of community; alot of the girls miss that when they are done…</p>

<p>If your girls went away to summer camp, mark my words they will want to explore Greek Life…they may not end up joining, but the “hype” is that it is very much like summer camp</p>

[paying3tuitions]

<p>

I am curious what might be some unexpected negatives from joining a sorority.

</p>

<p>Um…it’s limiting in case you decide to have a transgender operation?</p>

<p>I’m kidding. I used to have discomfort about sororities/fraternities until I began to read more about the positives here on CC. Also within our family, H, me, S-1 and DD all attended LAC’s where they were forbidden, so had no experience. But S-2 went to a school with active Greek life and we discovered that it is simply another positive social/alumni networking arena, does charitable things. Oncampus Greek houses have parties which the college requires be open to anyone from campus. His national fraternity has policies against all forms of hazing, and my S (whom I believe) says this is strictly followed locally at the chapter level. </p>

<p>Dues are a nuisance for us, but if he succeeds this term in finding off-campus employment, that will be the first thing he’ll take over from his money. His frat has no “house” so that helps in certain ways. The only aspect that concerns me (as an outsider to Greek systems) is binge drinking at colleges in general, and I’m no longer sure if not going Greek protects anyone from binging.</p>

[Bay]

<p>I think you will find that nearly everyone who was in a sorority considers it a worthwhile, positive experience. Nearly all of the negative comments come from people who were not in a sorority.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

I would think as a member, the club’s reputation would stick to you and, to a certain extent, limit deeper relationships with those turned off by the association. OTOH, there may be people who are quite happy to be associated with a certain sorority culture and see that as a benefit.

</p>

<p>I wonder who holds those stereotypes more (that a given house is X): Those within the system, or those outside the system. I certainly agree that there were stereotypes of certain houses; having said that, those stereotypes didn’t really impact much of anything. To an extent, it’s like the stereotypes of colleges: MIT students are all nerds, Princeton students are preppy in feel, Duke students are highly competitive and in-your-face, etc., that may have some broad-based truth behind them but certainly don’t describe everyone there.</p>

[mimimomx3]

<p>^^ Seems to be true. I think we choose to participate or not as adults, when our fundamental character and opinions are close to being formed. I would guess those who don’t care for the Greek system (and those who do) decided that a while ago.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Any club or sorority/fraternity helps you find a smaller group on a large campus. Helps you not get lost. Makes a campus like NU (8,000) or Penn State (35,000?) more manageable.

</p>

<p>That is exactly it. S has both LAC’s and unis on his list, and asked H and me about how we knew what schools were right for us. H made the comment that for him, his fraternity was about having a smaller place-to-fit in a relatively large campus setting (not that 8,000 is huge, but you can’t know 8,000 people). It gave it a home-away-from-home place where “everybody knows your name.” Of course, at small LAC’s, the whole campus may function that way. At women’s colleges, they have a lot of traditions that in essence serve to create one-big-sorority. And of course Greek is not the only way to create that – it could be membership in a sports team or an activity.<br>
But for those of us who don’t have the athletic skills to be part of a team, who may not necessarily have academic talents and interests that lend themselves to being part of a club or group, the Greek system can be a way to create that where-everybody-knows-your-name space.</p>

<p>No one objects to residential colleges that are themed around a given interest area (international relations, foreign language, environmental awareness). They are just a version of the same thing. People with common interests who get along with one another.</p>

<p>If you want to talk “snobby and exclusive,” some of the eating clubs at HYP are far more snooty.</p>