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<p>Unless I’m out of touch, this does not seem out of the norm of the general population of 18-22 year old girls. Do you mean to imply that this is different from the norm of non-sorority girls? Do most non-sorority 18 - 22 year old girls never dress up, put on makeup or go out on a date with a man?</p>
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<p>You have got to be kidding. </p>
<p>“Adhering to a traditional gender role” describes women whose beliefs (typically grounded in traditional religious beliefs) call for them to never occupy any role other than homemaker / mother, not to work outside the home, and to be subservient to the man’s decision-making when it comes to where they live, finances, the running of the household, etc. The likelihood of such women even being at top colleges is fairly low. If they do attend college, they’re often clustered in schools that cater to that set of religious beliefs. </p>
<p>I fail to see how any of this has anything to do with a college-age woman going out on a date with a fellow student. No subservience is said or implied in a woman dressing up and going out.</p>
<p>You seem to have a real negative reaction to the idea of a young woman wanting to look good, and perhaps invest in attractively-styled clothing, makeup, etc. Why is that? It’s not inconsistent with academics and it’s not inconsistent with anything she might want to achieve or do in college or in the broader world.</p>
<p>CF - this week, we’re going for a four-day tour of some colleges for my hs juniors. Tonight I’m packing. Now, it’s casual (jeans) the whole way through, I won’t need anything but jeans. But I’ve picked out tops that are particularly flattering, jewelry / accessories to jazz it up, and some cute flats to wear that are also comfortable for walking. I don’t need to “impress” anybody – it certainly doesn’t matter for the tours – but I don’t want to BE that dumpy-frumpy mother who’s let herself go that you see on tours. Meanwhile, I’ve got a Phi Beta Kappa key in my drawer and a degree from a CC top 20 where I was in a honors program. I also attended the #1 grad school in my field (though did not finish, since I “adhered to traditional gender roles” by giving birth to twins – one thing H just couldn’t do, LOL). Why are these things inconsistent with one another? Why are you so resistant to young girls doing the things that young girls do – which includes some primping and attention to looks and boys?</p>
<p>A woman who dresses up, puts on makeup is a woman who likes herself and is comfortable in being a woman. To be comfortable as a woman doesn’t necessary mean adhering to traditional gender role of being subservient to men. As a woman, we could be strong/independent, and still be attractive.</p>
<p>As a side note, I’ve always taught my daughters to “dress” on test days. Even my athlete will put on a skirt, blouse and light make-up to go to finals. My D in college says she’s got all her friends dressing when they have a test. There’s a lot of evidence you do better on a test if you dress. fwiw.</p>
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<p>I see. We have a different definition of “adhering to traditional gender roles.” I am using a more general definition, whereas you are imagining some Amish woman in the kitchen.</p>
<p>I say that dressing in dressy dresses, putting on makeup and going out with men are traditional gender roles for women in our society because even now, in general only women do those things. Well, only women and Johnny Weir. </p>
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<p>And do they find their male classmates do the same thing, or are skirts, blouses and makeup reserved for the female gender? Good for your daughters if putting on a skirt and makeup helps them do well on exams. I can’t imagine myself ever wanting to do that.</p>
<p>Are you saying that men do not get dressed when they go out on a date, or for special occasion? Even my dad shaves, puts on a pair of dressy pants and nice shirt when he goes out with my mom. Many men I know are very particular about how they look and what they wear.</p>
<p>My idea of dressing up for class in college was wearing a bra. As I only weighed about 100 lbs, I don’t think anyone could tell.</p>
<p>Wow…just wow…I think that I’ll dredge out my love beads, refuse to shave, and buy a bong and munchies for our next evening out. Adhering to female roles? I thought that the whole reason for the feminist revolution was that we (men and women) could chose our lives. We were supposed to be able to dictate our futures and not be confined to the reins of convention by some.</p>
<p>I was wrong. The convention has to be your idea of a life, not mine, not my daughters’ or son’s idea of what is suitable in dress, lifestyle and politics. I for one attended two fine universities and then was able to marry, have children and stay at home with them. (Hope that’s ok). I dress up when we go out and my jeans don’t have holes in them. I have met, and am on good terms with mascara. I have never, nor have my husband or children, been asked to leave our club’s dining room because we were improperly dressed. I hummed the song from Flower Drum Song, I Enjoy Being a Girl, when I was 14. And you can too…in jeans, t shirts and socks and sandals. </p>
<p>By the way Cardinal Fang, I really dislike it when people say at many public universities 1/3 (or whatever) of girls don’t get bids. This may be true, but sweeping generalities, without naming names doesn’t equal the truth. And the sorority less girls accounting may just may include the girls who, on their own, dropped out of rush. I am really curious, seriously, about which universities cut that many girls as a matter of course.</p>
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<p>Even though I’m a geeky male computer engineer, I try to dress up while stepping out of my home.
My father used to do when I was young and he still does at 78. I’m not sure what is the problem in dressing nicely when you are out of your house/room; whether it is male or female.
I’ve stayed in dorm since 17 yrs old and used to get dressed for the classes, never wore slippers to classes.</p>
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<p>But you keep talking about “dressy dresses” when it’s evident we’re talking about simply paying attention to how one looks. No one’s talking about being girly-girl or being a fashionista. But even nice pants and flats and a coat of mascara seems … I don’t know, intimidating to you, or something.</p>
<p>If you had a D who liked to dress nicely – and it wasn’t the focus of her life, she got good grades and participated in activities and was an all-around nice person – what would be the big deal? You seem to be very bothered by any evidence of femininity or anything that’s beyond sweats and jeans. Why is that?</p>
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<p>Is there anything in your life that ever requires you to step outside the no-makeup, jeans-and-sweats land? No special events, anniversaries, birthday parties, anything?</p>
<p>So once again this thread is back to women judging other women on “look” and what is outside our individual comfort zone and “norm” – whether that is girly-girly w/fashionista labels, or dressy dresses, or nice skirt & blouse, or fashionable jeans with a nice top/stylish flats, or non fashionable jeans/pants with very intentionally non girly-girly top/shoes…</p>
<p>so much for sisterhood? </p>
<p>Ellebud wrote
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<p>ditto</p>
<p>Well, apparently it’s “conformist” for a young woman (who is hetero) to date young men!</p>
<p>“I can’t imagine myself ever wanting to do that.” </p>
<p>Do what? Do well on a test?</p>
<p>I don’t have any sons, but if I did, I would have taught them to dress for tests, as well. :)</p>
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<p>So what is your point? That sorority girls tend to act like women in our society? Why is that even noteworthy?</p>
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<p>Because some other women don’t.</p>
<p>Yes, and so? Plenty of 18-22 year old women who don’t join sororities, whether it’s because they chose not to or went to campuses that didn’t have a Greek system or didn’t go to college at all, go out with young men on these things called “dates.” </p>
<p>And, did you know that it’s actually not required for girls / young women in the Greek system to go out on dates? Really. Truly. </p>
<p>Seems to me that 18 - 22 yos being interested in the opposite sex is as old as dirt … I even heard that my parents and grandparents were interested in the opposite sex at that age, but I try not to believe it :-)</p>
<p>Well, Cardinal Fang, if sororities are all chock full of “conservative,” “traditional gender-role bound,” superficial women who commit such awful sins as knowing what a mascara wand does, occasionally dressing up beyond jeans / t-shirts, and expressing interest in the clothing on their bodies, then why would being “rejected” / cut by them be bothersome to you? It sounds like you don’t care for those types of women anyway, so you wouldn’t have bothered to go through rush if you were in that situation.</p>
<p>You all might want to think about letting this thread die.</p>