<p>Broad generalizations, not backed up by facts but rather by strong feelings, seem to rule some posters’ feelings about sororities, the system, and now the social options young women both in and out of the Greek system. (I really am wondering about those schools with the huge attrition rates caused, not by rushees dropping out but by the wicked Greek girls). </p>
<p>But to categorize the girls who date (incidentally staight and lesbian women date), wear mascara, and look appropriate as somehow failing…what? Be “natural” or not. Join or not…but to want to engineer society to your view of equality and femininity is wrong.</p>
<p>Please understand this: Wearing jeans and t shirts and nothing else may work for you in your life. But at some point most people have to dress up, whether it is for a social engagement or to interview for a job. Walk into my husband’s office in jeans and a t shirt (and they are quite casual btw) for an interview…well, you’re not getting past the receptionist. So, don’t teach your children to dress appropriately for certain occasions. Dislike the elitist kids, Greek and non Greek who get the jobs…those capitolistic conserative swine…and the women who wear white lace dresses to their weddings. You don’t want to be a part of that kind of group anyway.</p>
<p>Right. And then your bright, brilliant, beautiful, wonderful, fabulous kid wants to land an internship or a job or nail a grad school interview, and will be at a decided disadvantage, and has to figure it out because teaching your kid that there is more to life than jeans and t-shirts was just so terribly difficult. But at least you can smile and congratulate yourself that you didn’t Capitulate to The Man. </p>
<p>Why bother to teach your kid to put a napkin in his or her lap when he eats? After all, there is always a sleeve handy. If it disadvantages him or her in the real world, eh, so what. It’s so bourgeois to care.</p>
<p>CF: I am sorry that your son and family are facing such a challenge. But the challenge facing your son wasn’t your point at all during these discussions about feminism, sororities or frankly, the need or lack thereof to dress appropriately.</p>
<p>It wasn’t my point and I don’t know why Pizzagirl needed to drag my son into this. Though he did get a good laugh about the idea that he’d dress up for a test, or that I would. That will never happen. </p>
<p>I can accept that poetgirl and her children feel better about themselves and do better on tests when they dress up, and therefore that’s a good strategy for them. But it would make no sense at all for anyone in the Fang household-- we are uber-nerds and our brains just don’t work like that-- so I will dress in my usual comfortable clothing for my Differential Equations exam next week, and will nevertheless get the highest score in the class.</p>
<p>C Fang - I did not know your son had Asperger’s and certainly that is a quite different situation, with a whole different set of challenges. I realize I must have been thinking neurotypical because, well, that’s my experience.</p>
<p>Because I have boy / girl twins, sometimes when I write posts about kids in general I’ll put both genders in because I’m thinking about both. I meant “your son” in the generic “all of you who are reading” sense, not “C Fang’s son in particular.” I hope I have not offended you; it was not my intent.</p>
<p>Actually, I thought the “dressing for rush” guidelines were similar to those that professionals compile for Asperger students (and adults) to teach them the language of dress, except the latter would be even more detailed and would be very straightforward.</p>
<p>I imagine that one type of diversity absent from Greek organizations would be the lack of individuals on the spectrum, even those who would be willing to learn how to dress to fit in. This might be a negative for students wishing to pursue friendships with a wide variety of “nerds”, or even those who might eventually end up in management positions where they will need to manage employees on the autistic spectrum and keep them happy enough that they will not leave crucial technical positions unstaffed.</p>
<p>Being in a sorority really does not limit a girl’s friendships, unless she chooses to limit them. There really isn’t a rule or requirement or some sort of supernatural mind-hold over members that prohibits them from doing anything that a non-member would do. None at all. In fact, it is more likely that sorority girls are more involved in ECs on campus than non-members.</p>
<p>My D has always been the sorority-girl type: In h.s. she had a boat-load of girl friends, spent time shopping and dressing up and planning theme parties, in addition to earning stellar grades. But the most important activity she participated in, and wrote about in her college app. essays, was her love for working with special ed students. In her own words, one of her best h.s. friends was an autistic boy whom she spent an extraordinary amount of time with. She has recently begun participating in a program through her college that allows her to continue working with special students one day per week. (And be in a sorority at the same time!)</p>
<p>Exactly. I don’t know where some of you are getting this weird notion that once a girl joins a sorority, her world has to close in, she’s cut off from other students or activities on campus, and she’s somehow unable to form friendships like ANY OTHER STUDENT on campus – through classes, clubs, athletics, theater, religious groups, volunteering / community work, whatever floats her boat.
It’s no more “limiting” than joining Hillel means you can only hang around with Jewish girls, or joining the tennis team means you can only hang around with jocks.</p>
<p>Where do some of you get this perception from? I’m truly curious. Because a lot of the objections seem to be “you’ve narrowed your world / not participating in all the campus diversity” and I just don’t see how that’s borne out. You choose to participate in larger campus activities and form friendships elsewhere or not, as you see fit. Maybe it’s borne out in some schools – I don’t know – but certainly not at all. I’m on the shyer, nerdier side and I tended to stay within my house for friendships because that’s me – but more gregarious, outgoing girls certainly had friends of all stripes. Or they made friendships freshman year with girls who didn’t go Greek and they kept up those friendships. Are you stereotyping and projecting some types of schools / Greek systems to all of them?</p>
<p>And I’m actually not that way at all. I’ve got a healthy-size nerd quotient, had just a few girlfriends in high school, and spent time in more academic pursuits and employment, not socializing in high school. Going Greek provided a “safe haven” for me to socialize, if that makes sense – some structure, as opposed to just walking into a frat party and knowing nobody and being uncomfortable.</p>
<p>So you join a sorority to make lifelong friends, and you do make lifelong friends in the sorority, and you also have just as many friends outside the sorority as you would have if you hadn’t joined the sorority. Also, you join a sorority to find people who are like you, but sororities are just as diverse (in family income, in race, in religion, in intended major) as the campus at large. Now I understand.</p>
<p>CF - you don’t get it, and it is because you don’t want to get it. Don’t you have inner circle friends vs loose tie friends? All of D1’s closest friends are in her sorority. If there was no sorority at her school, she would be rooming with those friends, and she would have other circle of friends outside of her closest circle. But you will never get it.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to explain many time and let me reiterate once more.
Sororities are racially not as diverse as campus at large and if they are then they are the lowest in the order of sororities at any campus.
This not only true at large university but also at any elite campuses as well.
Sororities are also not diverse with respect to family income as semester dues are high.
Sororities are as diverse as campuses in intended major at elite colleges but might not be diverse at large public Universities.</p>
<p>So please don’t try to prove that Sororities are racially or economically as diverse as the college campus they are on. It is just not practical because if it is same then there is no use of such a sorority.</p>
<p>CF:That actually accurately describes my D’s situation. She lives in an off campus apt. with her best friend/roommate who is not in a sorority. She has a few good friends that are in her sorority and a few very good friends that are not in sororities and some good friends that are a different sorority. She does not plan to live in the sorority house as it is so full and doesn’t want to share a room with 3-4 girls. She likes the quiet of her apt but can go to weekly dinners/meetings at her house and one or two social events a week. She definitely has a social life with her sorority but an even more active and varied one outside of it. She enjoys certain aspects of her sorority and takes full advantage of those and she can get by very well without it too. It doesn’t have to consume you or be an all or nothing thing in my opinion.</p>
<p>No one said this. Sorority life is likely no less diverse (and may be much more diverse) than the life of GDIs. GDIs choose their roommates/apartment mates just like girls choose their sorority. GDIs are just as likely (or moreso) to share living quarters with students of like race, SES, religion and major.</p>
<p>“I am really curious, seriously, about which universities cut that many girls as a matter of course.”</p>
<p>From what I understand, pretty much just Indiana University. It’s one of just a couple of schools where the the number of places in the Greek system is determined by the sororities rather than the number of interested freshmen, and the only one where hundreds of interested women are routinely denied a place in a house.</p>